Fake Trade Thread #3

[MasterIchiro]

I think this is bit too wild to be realistic. Also, Kings already have the cap room to bring back Bogdon, because he is a restricted free agent, so they can match the offer Atlanta gave without having to give up anything. So in this case they are giving up Hield for DSJ, which is a horrible return.

If the Kings match Bogdon 18.7 they also have to pay Barnes + Fox + Hield + Joseph. Without doing all the math, that already looks like a big tax bill.

If they bring Bogdanovic back they will only be in the 120 range, which is not really close to the Luxury Tax Line.

Are you including Bagley and the rest of their roster or is 120 million just for those 5 players?

[Diop]

Next off season the only big contract we have is Hayward and rozier who is likely moved. That’s why I can swallow horfords contract. I mainly want to trade expirings for horford to avoid stretching batum.

[JMAC3]

If the Kings match Bogdon 18.7 they also have to pay Barnes + Fox + Hield + Joseph. Without doing all the math, that already looks like a big tax bill.

If they bring Bogdanovic back they will only be in the 120 range, which is not really close to the Luxury Tax Line.

Are you including Bagley and the rest of their roster or is 120 million just for those 5 players?

Yeah Fox signed an extension so he only makes 8 million this year, which is probably where you are not seeing it add up.

[JMAC3]

Next off season the only big contract we have is Hayward and rozier who is likely moved. That’s why I can swallow horfords contract. I mainly want to trade expirings for horford to avoid stretching batum.

The Problem with this logic is

1. Horford makes 27 million as well, so we aren't saving anything in this move.

2. OKC has no cap room to be able to accept more salary then they are giving out.

[JMAC3]

2. Send Batum (27.4 million) to Kings for Harrison Barnes(22.2 million) So this would only be saving us 5.2 million from our books, so this is 1 million short of the previous deal I offered so it would be even more difficult to backload Hayward deal and this obviously takes stretching Batum out of the deal because he is included in it. Kings would be taking significant hit to their team for this year by doing this, but most in the league view Barnes as a negative contract with another 3/60 on his deal left.

This is where the deal could get tricky, because again this would not be enough space so there's a chance the Hornets would have to add someone else to the deal. Monk could make sense and that would get the Hornets under the cap, but is Batum and Monk for 3 years of Barnes a bad deal? Barnes deal is front loaded so it goes 22, 20, 18 which is not as bad as it once was thought to be. Maybe the Kings would throw in a few 2nd round picks for dumping Barnes and getting Monk?

This would give the Hornets another solid player on the wing/stretch 4. but I am not sure this is the best deal out there.

Think after having a night to sleep on it, I do not really love any of these deals. More than likely the reason a deal has not been announced and their is intrigue around the sign and trade it probably means the Hornets and Celtics are looking for a third team to get involved.

What about this?

Boston gets Harrison Barnes (Celtics get Barnes to fill Hayward role of stretch 4/wing. He actually might be better suited to play role Boston wanted Hayward to play of spotting up. Also, this is an asset they are getting back rather than just losing Hayward for Nada.)

Hornets get Hayward (duh)

Kings get Batum (get an expiring for Barnes)

Not sure if Kings or Boston would need another asset to get deal done, but I think it does benefit everyone in the deal.

[Diop]

Next off season the only big contract we have is Hayward and rozier who is likely moved. That’s why I can swallow horfords contract. I mainly want to trade expirings for horford to avoid stretching batum.

The Problem with this logic is

1. Horford makes 27 million as well, so we aren't saving anything in this move.

2. OKC has no cap room to be able to accept more salary then they are giving out.

I thought they did, the versions I saw included zeller to give us room.

Would rozier and zeller be worth considering?

It’s all the randle talk that drove me into considering horford. I really don’t want randle

[MasterIchiro]

If they bring Bogdanovic back they will only be in the 120 range, which is not really close to the Luxury Tax Line.

Are you including Bagley and the rest of their roster or is 120 million just for those 5 players?

Yeah Fox signed an extension so he only makes 8 million this year, which is probably where you are not seeing it add up.

I see. No big tax bill this year because Fox is 8 million. But after that, I think the Kings are paying it. Fox got a max + Barnes + Hield + Joseph + Bogdon + Bagley is a ton of money.

My thinking is the Hawks are looking at the Kings' cap situation beyond this season and are hoping the Kings are forced to let Bogdon walk. If the Kings find a taker for Hield they can match Bogdon and maintain cap flexibility beyond this year. Knicks like Rozier so I'm kind of stuck on that part of our restructuring.

[MasterIchiro]

So far I don't like any of these deals more than lowering our cap 9 million 3 years on a Batum stretch.

The Pacers were willing to trade Myles Turner for Hayward. Myles Turner is far far more valuable than 9 million cap.

[LofJ]

I'm holding out hope that the plan is to trade Hayward to Indiana for Turner and Lamb.

[yosemiteben]

The Pacers were willing to trade Myles Turner for Hayward. Myles Turner is far far more valuable than 9 million cap.

Not following that logic.

IndyStar Pacers Insider J. Michael previously reported the Celtics were interested in a potential Myles Turner-for-Hayward sign-and-trade deal. But Turner is paid $18 million per year, meaning the Pacers' top offer to Hayward in that scenario would have been around $20 million.

https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nba/pacers/2020/11/21/gordon-hayward-trade-what-we-know-about-why-he-didnt-end-up-with-pacers/6373989002/

If you combine the contract we signed Hayward ($32M per year) and the $9M dead cap ($41M), we would have literally doubled what IND was paying Turner and were potentially willing to pay Hayward. Saying "Turner > $9M" doesn't make sense to me here.

[JMAC3]

Think after having a night to sleep on it, I do not really love any of these deals. More than likely the reason a deal has not been announced and their is intrigue around the sign and trade it probably means the Hornets and Celtics are looking for a third team to get involved.

What about this?

Boston gets Harrison Barnes (Celtics get Barnes to fill Hayward role of stretch 4/wing. He actually might be better suited to play role Boston wanted Hayward to play of spotting up. Also, this is an asset they are getting back rather than just losing Hayward for Nada.)

Hornets get Hayward (duh)

Kings get Batum (get an expiring for Barnes)

Not sure if Kings or Boston would need another asset to get deal done, but I think it does benefit everyone in the deal.

Tightening this up a bit

Kings: Batum, Monk, Boston 2nd

Hornets: Hayward and Cory Joseph

Boston: Barnes

We give up Monk, but by dumping Batum in the deal we open back up another 20 million in cap space. Assuming we help out Kings even more for facilitating the deal and take on Joseph contract. Leaving us with about 8 million in cap space still. As I mentioned before Joseph has only 2.6 million guaranteed in 2021-2022 season so he could be viewed as an asset.

[MasterIchiro]

The Pacers were willing to trade Myles Turner for Hayward. Myles Turner is far far more valuable than 9 million cap.

Not following that logic.

IndyStar Pacers Insider J. Michael previously reported the Celtics were interested in a potential Myles Turner-for-Hayward sign-and-trade deal. But Turner is paid $18 million per year, meaning the Pacers' top offer to Hayward in that scenario would have been around $20 million.

https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nba/pacers/2020/11/21/gordon-hayward-trade-what-we-know-about-why-he-didnt-end-up-with-pacers/6373989002/

If you combine the contract we signed Hayward ($32M per year) and the $9M dead cap ($41M), we would have literally doubled what IND was paying Turner and were potentially willing to pay Hayward. Saying "Turner > $9M" doesn't make sense to me here.

I read the Pacers offered Turner + McDermott and that the Celtics demanded Turner + Warren, I'm assuming because Hayward wanted more money. It's impossible to isolate all factors so I look at it in a vacuum. They wanted Hayward. They were willing to part with Turner. Hayward wanted more money. We're willing to pay him and lose 9 million cap. I'd much rather be us over the Pacers even if it means paying more money to meet Hayward's demands.

Anyways, this is hypothetical and I'm really just against any of these options over stretching Batum. I think the 9 million cap is overblown given we're not a free agent destination unless we overpay and we have a good drafter and improving young players to improve accounting for the loss of 9 million cap and adding Hayward as a go-to scorer.

Anyways I'm kind of burnt out on this. I'm moving forward to new proposals. I'm working on one involving Turner.

[MasterIchiro]

This can be two separate deals

Hornets
Myles Turner
Curtis Joseph
9.6 million cap

Knicks
Terry Rozier
draft compensation from SAC

Pacers
Miles Bridges
12 million cap
Cody Martin

Kings
Cody Zeller expiring

[MasterIchiro]

This can be two separate deals

Hornets
Myles Turner
Curtis Joseph
9.6 million cap

Knicks
Terry Rozier
draft compensation from SAC

Pacers
Miles Bridges
12 million cap
Cody Martin

Kings
Cody Zeller expiring

New lineup

Devonte' Graham/Joseph
LaMelo Ball/Monk/Riller
Gordon Hayward/McDaniels
PJ Washington/McDaniels
Myles Turner/Carey Jr./Biz/Richards

https://tradenba.com/trades/US13wwKA0

[JMAC3]

This can be two separate deals

Hornets
Myles Turner
Curtis Joseph
9.6 million cap

Knicks
Terry Rozier
draft compensation from SAC

Pacers
Miles Bridges
12 million cap
Cody Martin

Kings
Cody Zeller expiring

I don't think we can get Turner man. For one Pacers are 20 million over the cap so they can not do a deal like this because salaries would have to match. Essentially we can only do this type of deal with a team that is under the salary cap, which is why options are so limited.

[James Gatz]

Think after having a night to sleep on it, I do not really love any of these deals. More than likely the reason a deal has not been announced and their is intrigue around the sign and trade it probably means the Hornets and Celtics are looking for a third team to get involved.

What about this?

Boston gets Harrison Barnes (Celtics get Barnes to fill Hayward role of stretch 4/wing. He actually might be better suited to play role Boston wanted Hayward to play of spotting up. Also, this is an asset they are getting back rather than just losing Hayward for Nada.)

Hornets get Hayward (duh)

Kings get Batum (get an expiring for Barnes)

Not sure if Kings or Boston would need another asset to get deal done, but I think it does benefit everyone in the deal.

Tightening this up a bit

Kings: Batum, Monk, Boston 2nd

Hornets: Hayward and Cory Joseph

Boston: Barnes

We give up Monk, but by dumping Batum in the deal we open back up another 20 million in cap space. Assuming we help out Kings even more for facilitating the deal and take on Joseph contract. Leaving us with about 8 million in cap space still. As I mentioned before Joseph has only 2.6 million guaranteed in 2021-2022 season so he could be viewed as an asset.

This framework makes sense to me. Good work on putting together various options JMAC, definitely something the team is also doing privately.

I think the Kings would need additional incentive imo but I understand why all the teams would make this move.

[MasterIchiro]

This can be two separate deals

Hornets
Myles Turner
Curtis Joseph
9.6 million cap

Knicks
Terry Rozier
draft compensation from SAC

Pacers
Miles Bridges
12 million cap
Cody Martin

Kings
Cody Zeller expiring

I don't think we can get Turner man. For one Pacers are 20 million over the cap so they can not do a deal like this because salaries would have to match. Essentially we can only do this type of deal with a team that is under the salary cap, which is why options are so limited.

The Pacers lower cap in this proposal. They send out Turner and get back Miles as their PF + Cody Martin. They have Goga to back up center. Miles Bridges is a better three point shooter than Turner and plays up on perimeter defense guarding a bigger position. Cody Martin fits their two-way gritty style.

Does dumping Turner allow them to retain Oladipo without getting taxed?

[JMAC3]

This can be two separate deals

Hornets
Myles Turner
Curtis Joseph
9.6 million cap

Knicks
Terry Rozier
draft compensation from SAC

Pacers
Miles Bridges
12 million cap
Cody Martin

Kings
Cody Zeller expiring

I don't think we can get Turner man. For one Pacers are 20 million over the cap so they can not do a deal like this because salaries would have to match. Essentially we can only do this type of deal with a team that is under the salary cap, which is why options are so limited.

The Pacers lower cap in this proposal. They send out Turner and get back Miles as their PF + Cody Martin. They have Goga to back up center. Miles Bridges is a better three point shooter than Turner and plays up on perimeter defense guarding a bigger position. Cody Martin fits their two-way gritty style.

Does dumping Turner allow them to retain Oladipo without getting taxed?

No, since the Pacers are an over the cap team without any cap space they must match the amount of money going out with the amount of money coming back in. Hence why they were offering 25 million dollars worth of salary for Hayward (18 turner, 7 McDermott). In your scenario they are taking back less money in the trade which they would not be able to do.

I know you really love Turner, but I also think Pacers were only offering him because they would be getting Hayward. I do not think they are interested in dumping him just to dump him. There is pretty big difference between Hayward and Bridges, especially for a team that is trying to compete now.

[MasterIchiro]

Think after having a night to sleep on it, I do not really love any of these deals. More than likely the reason a deal has not been announced and their is intrigue around the sign and trade it probably means the Hornets and Celtics are looking for a third team to get involved.

What about this?

Boston gets Harrison Barnes (Celtics get Barnes to fill Hayward role of stretch 4/wing. He actually might be better suited to play role Boston wanted Hayward to play of spotting up. Also, this is an asset they are getting back rather than just losing Hayward for Nada.)

Hornets get Hayward (duh)

Kings get Batum (get an expiring for Barnes)

Not sure if Kings or Boston would need another asset to get deal done, but I think it does benefit everyone in the deal.

Tightening this up a bit

Kings: Batum, Monk, Boston 2nd

Hornets: Hayward and Cory Joseph

Boston: Barnes

We give up Monk, but by dumping Batum in the deal we open back up another 20 million in cap space. Assuming we help out Kings even more for facilitating the deal and take on Joseph contract. Leaving us with about 8 million in cap space still. As I mentioned before Joseph has only 2.6 million guaranteed in 2021-2022 season so he could be viewed as an asset.

I'd rather lower cap 9 million (Batum stretch) to keep Monk. We can't get a 22 year old piece with upside for the MLE. Substitute Martin for Monk and I'd be on board. The question is if the Celtics would take that horrible Barnes contract. But maybe it's not so horrible considering what Hayward wanted and where he settled financially.

[JMAC3]

Think after having a night to sleep on it, I do not really love any of these deals. More than likely the reason a deal has not been announced and their is intrigue around the sign and trade it probably means the Hornets and Celtics are looking for a third team to get involved.

What about this?

Boston gets Harrison Barnes (Celtics get Barnes to fill Hayward role of stretch 4/wing. He actually might be better suited to play role Boston wanted Hayward to play of spotting up. Also, this is an asset they are getting back rather than just losing Hayward for Nada.)

Hornets get Hayward (duh)

Kings get Batum (get an expiring for Barnes)

Not sure if Kings or Boston would need another asset to get deal done, but I think it does benefit everyone in the deal.

Tightening this up a bit

Kings: Batum, Monk, Boston 2nd

Hornets: Hayward and Cory Joseph

Boston: Barnes

We give up Monk, but by dumping Batum in the deal we open back up another 20 million in cap space. Assuming we help out Kings even more for facilitating the deal and take on Joseph contract. Leaving us with about 8 million in cap space still. As I mentioned before Joseph has only 2.6 million guaranteed in 2021-2022 season so he could be viewed as an asset.

I'd rather lower cap 9 million (Batum stretch) to keep Monk. We can't get a 22 year old piece with upside for the MLE. Substitute Martin for Monk and I'd be on board. The question is if the Celtics would take that horrible Barnes contract. But maybe it's not so horrible considering what Hayward wanted and where he settled financially.

Go check out my latest post in the Monk thread, I laid out our cap situation with Monk and Batum dead money vs trading monk to dump Batum dead money.