Fried Chicken and Bonghits: The Al Jefferson Thread 2.0

Mr Gametime · Post #381 » by **Mr Gametime** » Sun Oct 4, 2015 12:51 am

I expect Jefferson to rebound this season and all this "fried chicken" talk will go away.

Liver_Pooty · Post #382 » by **Liver_Pooty** » Sun Oct 4, 2015 1:39 am

Mr Gametime wrote:I expect Jefferson to rebound this season and all this "fried chicken" talk will go away.

Until he gets paid.

spaceballer · Post #383 » by **spaceballer** » Sat Oct 10, 2015 3:20 am

[tweet]https://twitter.com/CNM_JLin_Vids/status/652605096144932864[/tweet]

Post #384 » by **Diop** » Sat Oct 10, 2015 3:47 am

Mr Gametime wrote:I expect Jefferson to rebound this season and all this "fried chicken" talk will go away.

doesn't change what he did last season

Elden Payton · Post #385 » by **Elden Payton** » Sat Oct 10, 2015 8:33 am

Sachmo wrote:
Mr Gametime wrote:I expect Jefferson to rebound this season and all this "fried chicken" talk will go away.

doesn't change what he did last season

He's done that every other season for his whole career.

Bassman · Post #386 » by **Bassman** » Sat Oct 10, 2015 12:47 pm

I said months ago that, IF Big Al got serious in training, got weight off, he could be a major asset to this team. Hope that is the case this season, as he will be needed. I am concerned that a good to great showing could result in an overpaid extension. Nothing we can do but see how it plays out.

spaceballer · Post #387 » by **spaceballer** » Sat Oct 10, 2015 10:21 pm

At least he's being a pro-active vet with the fast-track chemistry. Did he or anyone else on the team do this the last couple of seasons? Or did they wait till the team losses piled up first?
[tweet]https://twitter.com/mikepersinger/status/652953573702127616[/tweet]

MasterIchiro · Post #388 » by **MasterIchiro** » Mon Oct 12, 2015 3:56 am

I'm still angry he opted in but satisfied he has been deemphasized in the new system.

driveandkick · Post #389 » by **driveandkick** » Mon Oct 12, 2015 4:15 am

yeah it's crazy how much better we looked without him last night

Post #390 » by **yosemiteben** » Tue Oct 20, 2015 1:17 pm

Terrific, must-read piece on Al, not sure who this Adi Joseph guy is but he did a great job - http://www.sportingnews.com/nba-news/4658657-al-jefferson-hornets-charlotte-post-game-low-centers-big-men

AustinPowers · Post #391 » by **AustinPowers** » Tue Oct 20, 2015 4:56 pm

^ IMO, that is the typical preseason puff piece.

And here is my extrapolation from baseball to basketball. Young whizz GMs are being hired left & right in baseball. As the NBA front offices get younger too, less and less care about aggregate stat #s. 20 & 10 doesn't mean sh*t anymore. Teams have their own RPM #s. What does a player add to that? In baseball, teams have their own proprietary WAR #s. A guy like Kiemaier on the TB Rays can't hit even average but his CF defense can be huge to overall team success.

So back to Big Al. I, and NBA FOs, don't care about cold aggregate "newspaper" stats. What is your contribution to "team RPM" through kickouts, screens, rotation, movement, rim protection, etc.? Getting your #s because the floor is better spaced is like 1/20th of the equation.

AustinPowers · Post #392 » by **AustinPowers** » Tue Oct 20, 2015 5:06 pm

In reply to my own reply above, last preseason Zach Lowe had the year's most famous "puff piece" on Kyle Korver.

http://grantland.com/features/kyle-korver-nba-atlanta-hawks/

But that "puff piece" had much meat on the bone in regards to statistical backing and continued into the season on Korver's ability to "warp" the Hawks offensive zone. Time will tell if Al Jefferson's post game can "warp" the Charlotte Hornets offensive zone. But you damn better bring Goldsberry shot charts, Zach Lowe GIFs and advanced RPM like #s, not "newspaper" stats.

Vanderbilt_Grad · Post #393 » by **Vanderbilt_Grad** » Tue Oct 20, 2015 5:09 pm

AustinPowers wrote:So back to Big Al. I, and NBA FOs, don't care about cold aggregate "newspaper" stats. What is your contribution to "team RPM" through kickouts, screens, rotation, movement, rim protection, etc.? Getting your #s because the floor is better spaced is like 1/20th of the equation.

Honestly I think that it's really clear by now that not all teams are quite at that point.

Charlotte wise Cho is a huge internal stats guy ... we just don't know much about what he really values there. On the other hand I expect that MJ feels far more comfortable with the the old school eye test and old scoreboard stats. So you end up with decisions being driven by several factors both "old" and "new."

Post #394 » by **yosemiteben** » Tue Oct 20, 2015 5:11 pm

AustinPowers wrote:^ IMO, that is the typical preseason puff piece.

Kind of disagree, at least in that it shows Al's recognition and direct response to / acknowledgment of some criticisms of his game. A major point of discussion on here was whether Al could recognize a need for a change in his game, and I think that piece does a very good job of shedding light on his views of changes that have to be implemented in his game in order to improve the team.

Post #395 » by **yosemiteben** » Tue Oct 20, 2015 7:14 pm

AustinPowers wrote:^ IMO, that is the typical preseason puff piece.

By contrast - this Lance piece by Shams is the epitome of a puff piece: http://sports.yahoo.com/news/lance-stephenson-seeks-redemption-with-clippers---i-have-to-prove-myself-again-165111623.html

spaceballer · Post #396 » by **spaceballer** » Tue Oct 20, 2015 7:37 pm

I think there's still value in Al and a role for him to play.

Having a post presence, even if it's not a point of emphasis in the system, will grant a team extra flexibility in game planning.

The Rockets during Lin's first year with them, ran into the problem that the penetrating guard (whether Lin or Harden) kept getting double or triple teamed because no one respected Asik's offense at first. And even when Asik became a double double machine from force-feeding, the guards were still considered more dangerous. However, if the perimeter plays got shut down with the 3's not falling and the paint was locked down, the Rockets were screwed.

That's why Dwight Howard was a huge upgrade for their system, beyond the talent upgrade from Asik to Howard. Dwight gave them a post presence for when other teams had the defensive personnel to shut down the guard play and the three's weren't falling.

Big Al can do the same for this system, offering an alternative if a post presence in offense is required due to matchups and gameplanning.

I'm not saying to go Alfense like last year, but it does give flexibility to the team.

Braggins · Post #397 » by **Braggins** » Tue Oct 20, 2015 8:41 pm

I don't want to get too ahead of myself, but I am extremely surprised so far at Al's willingness to change his game. Maybe it won't last once the regular season starts, but as of now I really like what I'm seeing from him in terms of his style. I still wish Clifford would have the balls to use him as a 6th man. I feel like it would open up the floor for the starters to have Cody and Frank/Marvin as the starting bigs. The only area where I think Al coming off the bench would hurt us would be defensive rebounding, but I think we could handle it and improvement in other areas would more than make up for it. I'd like to eventually see a rotation of:

1st unit - Kemba, Lamb, Batum, Frank, Zeller
2nd unit - Lin, PJ, Marv, Hawes, Al
spot minutes - Roberts, Daniels, Psycho

Mystical Apples · Post #398 » by **Mystical Apples** » Tue Oct 20, 2015 9:04 pm

The Al article had a little unintended comedy with self-inciminating quotes like “It ain't been no secret,” Jefferson says. “I have not been a great defensive player.” Or on guarding perimeter bigs "It should be a lot easier (with the weight loss), but I hate being around there. I feel like I'm out of place.”

I don't get the love for the new Al. He's being praised for stuff he should have been doing and he's physically ill-suited for. The game requires him to change in order to contribute, but what he needs to change to almost every other center does better. Jeez, it's a given bigs move their feet and hedge and recover on screens. Sorry, he doesn't deserve a gold star for that.

Mystical Apples · Post #399 » by **Mystical Apples** » Tue Oct 20, 2015 9:15 pm

Look at each of the teams Charlotte has played so far in preseason and their centers. Jordan, Bosh, Noah, Pau out, Smith, Whiteside out, Lopez, Vucevic out, soon to be Drummond. The first regular games Bosh and Whiteside again, Vucevic, Horford, etc...

It's not that some of them are better at what is required of Al, it's all of them and even backups.

Post #400 » by **yosemiteben** » Tue Oct 20, 2015 9:19 pm

I think it's clear that the goal is for Al to go to work in iso post situations where teams can't double because of our shooters. I honestly don't think we've seen yet how often he will be in those situations. If he's averaging only like 10 shots per game in that situation, you have to start asking if having that feature of our offense is worth the defensive and offensive scheming required to use him. That is the question where the jury is out for me. Defenses having to worry about Al could really help free up shooters, and defenses being forced to stay home on the perimeter could really help Al. Just not sure if it's that much better than just having better PNR players and ball movers at the C position instead.

That's very much an open question for this team.