Don't Be Hurtin' Lin - The Jeremy Lin Thread 2

[HornetJail]

I'm not mad about it, but I do find it odd that Lin subs in so late.

Not at the 6 minutes left in 1st quarter mark, not at the 5 minutes mark, not even at the 4 minutes, but at the 2 minutes mark. That's when Kemba usually comes off the floor for Lin.

Is there any other backup PG in the League that subs in that late? Especially when you consider that Clifford trusts him to close games for team. 'i am sure there is a reason I just don't undestabd it

Many PGs play the entire opening quarter and then their backup starts the 2nd quarter. Lin plays the vast majority of the 2nd quarter, so I don't see where the issue is. By putting him in so late in the 1st, Lin gets warmed up against opposing second units, so he's eased into the game rather than being thrown out there against starting caliber PGs. Also Clifford likes Lamb as the first guard off the bench. I think the only reason Lamb doesn't start is because of PJ. With PJ out, Lamb should be starting, with Lin as the first sub out, but that's a minute detail honestly. He doesn't like throwing off his rotations too much.

[TinmanZBoy]

I'm not mad about it, but I do find it odd that Lin subs in so late.

Not at the 6 minutes left in 1st quarter mark, not at the 5 minutes mark, not even at the 4 minutes, but at the 2 minutes mark.

Is there any other backup PG in the League that subs in that late?

It's especially weird when you consider Lin is trusted to close games. 'i am sure there is a reason I just don't undestand it

omg just go watch more other teams play, ok?

[fatlever]

And he is a player that is looking for 26-30 MPG, not 20-25

I think this means a lot more to Lin's fans than it does to Lin.

Lin has repeatedly said he wanted to a situation where he could play the most minutes playing his style, not just the most minutes. I don't see an upcoming conversation where Lin says "Well, I really liked Charlotte, they let me play my style, but I only averaged 24 minutes there. I am leaving to play 27 minutes." 3 minutes a game over the course of the season is most likely not something on his list of complaints.

It seems like Lin fans have created this arbitrary number of minutes Lin must play in order to justify a narrative.

[bws94]

I'm not mad about it, but I do find it odd that Lin subs in so late.

Not at the 6 minutes left in 1st quarter mark, not at the 5 minutes mark, not even at the 4 minutes, but at the 2 minutes mark. That's when Kemba usually comes off the floor for Lin.

Is there any other backup PG in the League that subs in that late? Especially when you consider that Clifford trusts him to close games for team. 'i am sure there is a reason I just don't undestabd it

Many PGs play the entire opening quarter and then their backup starts the 2nd quarter. Lin plays the vast majority of the 2nd quarter, so I don't see where the issue is. By putting him in so late in the 1st, Lin gets warmed up against opposing second units, so he's eased into the game rather than being thrown out there against starting caliber PGs. Also Clifford likes Lamb as the first guard off the bench. I think the only reason Lamb doesn't start is because of PJ. With PJ out, Lamb should be starting, with Lin as the first sub out, but that's a minute detail honestly. He doesn't like throwing off his rotations too much.

Lin doesn't have problems against starting-caliber PGs. In fact some of his best D has been played on Parker and Lillard and he's held his own on Wall as being one of the few guys with the foot speed to stay with him.

What do you think of Lamb not starting because he's just much more productive in the 2nd unit?

[bws94]

And he is a player that is looking for 26-30 MPG, not 20-25

I think this means a lot more to Lin's fans than it does to Lin.

Lin has repeatedly said he wanted to a situation where he could play the most minutes playing his style, not just the most minutes. I don't see an upcoming conversation where Lin says "Well, I really liked Charlotte, they let me play my style, but I only averaged 24 minutes there. I am leaving to play 27 minutes." 3 minutes a game over the course of the season is most likely not something on his list of complaints.

It seems like Lin fans have created this arbitrary number of minutes Lin must play in order to justify a narrative.

It varies with Lin fans and yes, I know a lot has been made of his minutes. I'm not one to make that much of them but he does perform well over 25 and in the 25-30 minutes range. So that's why I say he'd look for what he was used to which is the 25-30 minute and not 20-25 minute range mentioned by MKG.

I think Lin seems happy in Charlotte and I like him in Charlotte as well. I think he has a good opportunity here and in some ways he's playing well, but he can play a lot better.

[steady]

I'm not mad about it, but I do find it odd that Lin subs in so late.

Not at the 6 minutes left in 1st quarter mark, not at the 5 minutes mark, not even at the 4 minutes, but at the 2 minutes mark.

Is there any other backup PG in the League that subs in that late?

It's especially weird when you consider Lin is trusted to close games. 'i am sure there is a reason I just don't undestand it

omg just go watch more other teams play, ok?

ok who? I'm not saying it's never been done. I'm really curious who is doing it right now - in the interest of understanding Clifford's lineups better (Again I've been generally ok with his rotations, and ok with Clifford, so far).

From what I could recall of teams who have pretty good backups -- I think Collison subs in at around 5 minutes left in quarter for Kings, Corey Joseph around 4 minutes for Raptors, Patty Mills with between 4 and 5 minutes left.

I think Motor is right that Clifford may want Lamb off the bench before Lin - but then why not have them come in at about the same time? Are such staggered substitution what you guys have typically seen from Clifford in the past?

[spaceballer]

It was only a matter of time

JLinNation @jlinnation

Rockets have Fear the Beard. Hornets have Like the Spike?

https://twitter.com/jlinnation/status/667577405242871808

[gafun]

<<Lin's TOs already dropped 20% before next game. It could drop another 50% on TOs if let him play 27-30 mins for 10 more games>>
Lin's TOs need to be trimmed down, but maybe it is less than his skill or style issue. Some problem is the result of that he is getting into more doubled because many opponent teams know how much damages he cloud do when he attack the rim. For now, as long as the result is W, I would take it. High reward come with high risk. High risk is part of fun in games. How often you seen those long (risk to some fans) passes in Hornets games? Lin did it in at least once in previous 4 games. I believe most fans like it. Some TOs could be fixed when his teammates get to know more about his styles and get ready by open up space, raise arms, bend your body (Hawes please) to get his passes!!! Some TOs is on refs 50-50 missing foul calls. Do you notice ref even "mistakably" added TO to him even he was a mile from the ball. Check the stats on nets game again, the Lin's TO already dropped 20%. Do you know how it was corrected? One of Lin fans called NBA after the game. Who else notices the mistake and cares to fix it?


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[ChokeFasncists]

I see him returning to Charlotte next season unless D'Antoni gets a job somewhere and tries to recruit him.

Interesting thought!

Many PGs play the entire opening quarter and then their backup starts the 2nd quarter. Lin plays the vast majority of the 2nd quarter, so I don't see where the issue is. By putting him in so late in the 1st, Lin gets warmed up against opposing second units, so he's eased into the game rather than being thrown out there against starting caliber PGs. Also Clifford likes Lamb as the first guard off the bench. I think the only reason Lamb doesn't start is because of PJ. With PJ out, Lamb should be starting, with Lin as the first sub out, but that's a minute detail honestly. He doesn't like throwing off his rotations too much.

My guess is that Cliff likes Kemba to play combo guard for a while and to have a little time with his buddy Lamb.

Cliff doesn't like Lamb to start from the beginning. I think it has more to do with Lamb's game besides scoring. He makes some careless mistakes on D and rebound, sometimes have tunnel vision.

[yosemiteben]

I hope Lin rediscovers his outside shoot. For all this talk about how much work he's put in to improve his shot, he's shooting a career high rate based on attempts per 36 and yet he's shooting a near career low 3PT% of 28%.

[MasterIchiro]

Despite the low 3 pt% and the turnovers, he remains a huge upgrade over Roberts. He's playing in that perfect sweet spot, no so terrible like Roberts costing us wins but not so great that we will lose him to a team willing to pay him starter money if he continues his pace. We get to keep him and I love how he leads the 2nd unit so we maintain the leverage we enjoy with our depth.

[ChokeFasncists]

I hope Lin rediscovers his outside shoot. For all this talk about how much work he's put in to improve his shot, he's shooting a career high rate based on attempts per 36 and yet he's shooting a near career low 3PT% of 28%.

Yeah......new shooting form, gonna take a little time to get used to I guess. I like that he keeps shooting and still gets to play, eventually he'll get better, it's early in the season.

[13th Man]

I hope Lin rediscovers his outside shoot. For all this talk about how much work he's put in to improve his shot, he's shooting a career high rate based on attempts per 36 and yet he's shooting a near career low 3PT% of 28%.

Yep, his 3pt shot has been horrible lately way off the mark. It was great in preseason but we know it's not the same type of pressure.

[yosemiteben]

One thing I'll say to Lin fans (if you haven't already figured this out) - Kemba has paved the way for Lin in terms of building up toleration for inefficiency. I'm not a huge Kemba fan (just somewhere between a small and medium one), yet it doesn't phase me at all to see Kemba have a night of 3 / 13 from the field.

If LA was Lin getting thrown to the wolves, CHA is Lin getting thrown to a flock of sleeping sheep.

[13th Man]

One thing I'll say to Lin fans (if you haven't already figured this out) - Kemba has paved the way for Lin in terms of building up toleration for inefficiency. I'm not a huge Kemba fan (just somewhere between a small and medium one), yet it doesn't phase me at all to see Kemba have a night of 3 / 13 from the field.

If LA was Lin getting thrown to the wolves, CHA is Lin getting thrown to a flock of sleeping sheep.

Haha. Kemba has been playing pretty well this year for the most part though so good to see that Bad Kemba is not the norm. Kemba is a lot more comfortable in his role than Jeremy is in his.

I do notice that Lin has been "chucking" more than in previous years, I think it may be a case of him trying to too hard to make an impact for whatever reason. Many of his 3's are contested which brings down his % as well. It'll take more time for him to get comfortable with the system and players, he's clearly not there yet.

[BatumtheGlue]

One thing I'll say to Lin fans (if you haven't already figured this out) - Kemba has paved the way for Lin in terms of building up toleration for inefficiency. I'm not a huge Kemba fan (just somewhere between a small and medium one), yet it doesn't phase me at all to see Kemba have a night of 3 / 13 from the field.

If LA was Lin getting thrown to the wolves, CHA is Lin getting thrown to a flock of sleeping sheep.

Haha. Kemba has been playing pretty well this year for the most part though so good to see that Bad Kemba is not the norm. Kemba is a lot more comfortable in his role than Jeremy is in his.

I do notice that Lin has been "chucking" more than in previous years, I think it may be a case of him trying to too hard to make an impact for whatever reason. Many of his 3's are contested which brings down his % as well. It'll take more time for him to get comfortable with the system and players, he's clearly not there yet.

IMO he has been chucking more because he felt comportable and got the green light from Clifford. His inconsistence jumper is the reason why he is in slump right now. His shoot percentage will be back soon, i'm sure.

[Roy Tarpley]

Kemba's numbers are the best they've been his entire career -- good for him and the Hornets!

[tonman]

One thing I'll say to Lin fans (if you haven't already figured this out) - Kemba has paved the way for Lin in terms of building up toleration for inefficiency. I'm not a huge Kemba fan (just somewhere between a small and medium one), yet it doesn't phase me at all to see Kemba have a night of 3 / 13 from the field.

If LA was Lin getting thrown to the wolves, CHA is Lin getting thrown to a flock of sleeping sheep.

Haha. Kemba has been playing pretty well this year for the most part though so good to see that Bad Kemba is not the norm. Kemba is a lot more comfortable in his role than Jeremy is in his.

I do notice that Lin has been "chucking" more than in previous years, I think it may be a case of him trying to too hard to make an impact for whatever reason. Many of his 3's are contested which brings down his % as well. It'll take more time for him to get comfortable with the system and players, he's clearly not there yet.

IMO he has been chucking more because he felt comportable and got the green light from Clifford. His inconsistence jumper is the reason why he is in slump right now. His shoot percentage will be back soon, i'm sure.

I like Kemba. My issue with Kemba is he needs to find out how to contribute when his shot isn't falling. Sometimes he becomes a non-factory if his shots aren't going in or a negative if he's trying to shoot himself out of the rut. I think Lin complements (i or e...) him well I just think Lin should initiate the offense and Kemba can still have the shots but more in the offensive flow and not just trying to create something.

the difference between Kemba and Lin is that Kemba tries to beat the defense while Lin tries to impose his will on the defense. Neither is great to do it consistently.

[gafun]

To be fair for evaluating Lin's performance, you need to see what impact he could have had when he played 25+ mins. Please check the following link to confirm my words. By combining offense and defense in last two games, when Lin was on court, the team performance NetRtg is third best +16.8. When he was off court, the team performance is the worst -19. By looking at the AL and Kamba's numbers, I would have understated why Cliff might bench AL and Kemba in the final quarter of some close games. The team defense -> DefRtg was #1 (87.8) when Lin was on the court and it is the worst (131.5) he was off the court.

http://stats.nba.com/team/#!/1610612766/onoffcourt/advanced/?sort=NET_RATING&dir=1&Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&LastNGames=2

[TinmanZBoy]

To be fair for evaluating Lin's performance, you need to see what impact he could have had when he played 25+ mins. Please check the following link to confirm my words. By combining offense and defense in last two games, when Lin was on court, the team performance NetRtg is third best +16.8. When he was off court, the team performance is the worst -19. By looking at the AL and Kamba's numbers, I would have understated why Cliff might bench AL and Kemba in the final quarter of some close games. The team defense -> DefRtg was #1 (87.8) when Lin was on the court and it is the worst (131.5) he was off the court.

http://stats.nba.com/team/#!/1610612766/onoffcourt/advanced/?sort=NET_RATING&dir=1&Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&LastNGames=2

well, when lin was not playing well, and coach kept playing him over 25+ minutes, the numbers could be dramatically different...