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2025 General Draft Discussion 2

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Re: 2025 General Draft Discussion 2 

Post#381 » by JMAC3 » Wed Jun 18, 2025 6:29 pm

Rays Pompadour wrote:
JMAC3 wrote:
Rays Pompadour wrote:I tend to stay out of Kon debates because I'm a Blue Devil fan and therefore biased. But I watched Knueppel closely this past season and am convinced he is underrated as a defender. Foot speed, lateral quickness, overall athleticism are lacking compared to other prospects, but there is simply no replacing a player with above-average processing skills (which Kon has) who knows where to be and when. He has a thick body, so he won't get pushed around as easily as some of these spindly grasshoppers we drool over. And he can shoot. My gracious he can shoot. The Hornets won't need him to guard a player shooting from 30 feet. But Knueppel knows how to play team defense and that's where I think he'll succeed.

I still prefer Edgecomb, Johnson and Bailey over Knueppel. But those who didn't watch every single second of Duke basketball this past season like I did are missing the visible evidence of an ELITE shooting guard with size who is a well-rounded, heady basketball player who will only get better as his skill and man strength improve.


College defense is soooo very different than NBA though. College you can hide a player, teams can't shoot as well so having elite rim protection is even more valuable. In the NBA teams are going to be to hunt switches vs Kon or just attack him 1 on 1 with whoever is guarding him. Much harder to do that in college when most teams have maybe 1 guy on the roster they trust to be able to expose a bad defender, NBA bench players can drop 15 pts on you in a quarter.

Again, Knecht played at Tennessee and they were 3rd best defense in the country with him. He graded out as 8th worst defender in the entire NBA. It is just different.


Totally agree that college and pro defenses are different. The NBA is just hopelessly in love with the three point line. Hard to guard a dude who shoots it from Matthews. I also agree that Kon will get hunted, but I don't think he'll be the matador LaMelo Ball is. Kon will learn to switch effectively and play team defense. A say that because I believe Knuepple wants to play defense - I perceive that he loves the physicality of it. I don't think I can say the same about Bailey or Johnson. And, again, elite shooting.


Yeah I just don't care about that to be honest. Because is the argument than Kispert, Strus, Allen also just don't want to play defense? I think we are just way understating how difficult defense in the NBA especially with physical disadvantages. Want to is great, but even a guy like Steph Curry was 25% epm- and I don't think anyone thinks he was just bad because he wasn't trying or cared.

My guess is we are ecstatic if Kon is a 30th% defensive player, but with the expectation he will be worse.
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Re: 2025 General Draft Discussion 2 

Post#382 » by fatlever » Wed Jun 18, 2025 7:49 pm

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Re: 2025 General Draft Discussion 2 

Post#383 » by fatlever » Wed Jun 18, 2025 7:51 pm

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matt from buzzbeat
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Re: 2025 General Draft Discussion 2 

Post#384 » by fatlever » Wed Jun 18, 2025 7:52 pm

grain of salt... again

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Re: 2025 General Draft Discussion 2 

Post#385 » by JDR720 » Wed Jun 18, 2025 7:55 pm

Paul Georges contract is worth the 3rd pick straight up, not moving back only 2 spots.
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Re: 2025 General Draft Discussion 2 

Post#386 » by JustBuzzin » Wed Jun 18, 2025 8:22 pm

I would love Paul George for Bridges/Nurkic

We move on from Miles and get a real vet in the locker room. I think people writing off PG too early, he was dealing with injuries last season. If he gets back healthy he's still a legit asset to a team.
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Re: 2025 General Draft Discussion 2 

Post#387 » by fatlever » Wed Jun 18, 2025 8:28 pm

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I guess he's just repackaging yesterday's news
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Re: 2025 General Draft Discussion 2 

Post#388 » by JMAC3 » Wed Jun 18, 2025 8:35 pm

JustBuzzin wrote:I would love Paul George for Bridges/Nurkic

We move on from Miles and get a real vet in the locker room. I think people writing off PG too early, he was dealing with injuries last season. If he gets back healthy he's still a legit asset to a team.


It sounds good now, but I don't think you are looking long-term. I think you would change your mind after 1 year and then you still would have two years paying Paul George at age 36 and 37 a combined 110 million. You are probably getting stuck with that deal if you acquire it the same as Suns are stuck with Bradley Beal, so if you change your mind you are going to be sick at the pricetag you are paying to move it.
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Re: 2025 General Draft Discussion 2 

Post#389 » by fatlever » Wed Jun 18, 2025 8:36 pm

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I've heard so many advanced stat draft nerds in the past few weeks talk about him as someone that will possibly slip in the draft but two to three years from now might be looked as someone like the random guards on the Pacers or Thunder, a high quality role player. Is he the combo guard that Mitch was always searching for? The advanced stats, Plus being the son of a former nba player, plus being from Michigan State seemed to be indicators of success apparently.
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Re: 2025 General Draft Discussion 2 

Post#390 » by Liver_Pooty » Wed Jun 18, 2025 8:45 pm

fatlever wrote:
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I've heard so many advanced stat draft nerds in the past few weeks talk about him as someone that will possibly slip in the draft but two to three years from now might be looked as someone like the random guards on the Pacers or Thunder, a high quality role player. Is he the combo guard that Mitch was always searching for? The advanced stats, Plus being the son of a former nba player, plus being from Michigan State seemed to be indicators of success apparently.


Being undersized didn't hurt Jared Mccain before his injury last season. I haven't looked at any of Jaces combine results though.
Balllin wrote:Zion Williamson is 6-5, with a 6-10 wingspan. I see him as a slightly better Kenneth Faried.
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Re: 2025 General Draft Discussion 2 

Post#391 » by JustBuzzin » Wed Jun 18, 2025 8:54 pm

JMAC3 wrote:
JustBuzzin wrote:I would love Paul George for Bridges/Nurkic

We move on from Miles and get a real vet in the locker room. I think people writing off PG too early, he was dealing with injuries last season. If he gets back healthy he's still a legit asset to a team.


It sounds good now, but I don't think you are looking long-term. I think you would change your mind after 1 year and then you still would have two years paying Paul George at age 36 and 37 a combined 110 million. You are probably getting stuck with that deal if you acquire it the same as Suns are stuck with Bradley Beal, so if you change your mind you are going to be sick at the pricetag you are paying to move it.

Nah I understand the long term vision. I'm saying we aren't getting major FA's anyway. Why not take a chance on PG. His game is not based on athleticism. He was injured last season. If he gets back healthy he's still a legit wing in this league.

Unlike the Suns we own all our picks. This wouldn't be a Beal situation because we got picks to attach to PG if he suddenly fell off. But I'm not expecting him to decline that significantly in the next 3 years.

By the time PG is declining this will be Miller's/LaMelo team they would be running the show. PG will be in that 3rd fiddle role. Say what you want about PG he can still get his own bucket.

It's basically replacing Bridges with PG in my mind.
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Re: 2025 General Draft Discussion 2 

Post#392 » by fatlever » Wed Jun 18, 2025 9:47 pm

utility sports - he always does good job explaining his rankings
his final top 12

flagg
harper
queen - he's much higher on his floor. feels lazy analysis on his def, views him as pf, not c. underrated bball iq. smart. size wins.
maluach - - best screen setter, underrated skill, great hands, great rim gravity, 140 off rating for duke. difference maker.
tre - best shooter other than brea, best shooting upside, quicker just higher on shots compared to kon, gives him the herro/booker upside, but low rim volume
kon - really really good at basketball, not all-star upside, but close upside, compared him to butler - he explains, 2nd safest bet behind flagg
cmb - driver of winning, positive impact regardless of stats, high intangible player, ft rate, but cant shoot, then he's josh hart which is still valuable
fears - another well thought out fears over vj discussion. higher all-star upside. downs, lack of offball
vj - lack of finishing, lack of fts concerning
jaku
thiero
ace - lack of handles limit his upside, bad footwork, shot making is legit, shot diet is bad, solid starter, good physical tools, rebounding, bad focus common for young guys, 2-way wing,
noa
bryant
jase
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Re: 2025 General Draft Discussion 2 

Post#393 » by fatlever » Wed Jun 18, 2025 10:58 pm

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Re: 2025 General Draft Discussion 2 

Post#394 » by Diop » Wed Jun 18, 2025 11:19 pm

JustBuzzin wrote:I would love Paul George for Bridges/Nurkic

We move on from Miles and get a real vet in the locker room. I think people writing off PG too early, he was dealing with injuries last season. If he gets back healthy he's still a legit asset to a team.

you have to at least replace Nurkic with Green, get rid of that contract as well. the risk is still there, but i could swallow it as George less likely to self destruct than Bridges and providing more to the team overall than Green.
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Re: 2025 General Draft Discussion 2 

Post#395 » by JustBuzzin » Wed Jun 18, 2025 11:27 pm

Diop wrote:
JustBuzzin wrote:I would love Paul George for Bridges/Nurkic

We move on from Miles and get a real vet in the locker room. I think people writing off PG too early, he was dealing with injuries last season. If he gets back healthy he's still a legit asset to a team.

you have to at least replace Nurkic with Green, get rid of that contract as well. the risk is still there, but i could swallow it as George less likely to self destruct than Bridges and providing more to the team overall than Green.

Yeah I would do Green/Bridges for PG.

I understand the concern with his contract, but I truly believe a healthy PG would be more beneficial to this team then Bridges. As talented as Bridges is his basketball IQ is pretty low. PG understands the game he plays under control. I feel he would be much better at leading these younger guys and they obviously have respect for his game. It's not just Miller who was PG favorite player growing up a lot of these younger players really looked at him as that guy. I think Carmelo son is also his favorite player. Ace said he patterned his game after PG.

It's a risk worth taking. Like I said we don't attract major FAs anyway. Might as well try to change the culture and move on from Bridges.

If PG is washed yeah that would suck, but we would still have our draft picks. It's not a franchise killing move to eat his contract.
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Re: 2025 General Draft Discussion 2 

Post#396 » by Bassman » Yesterday 12:03 am

Yeah I’m slipping steadily on VJ. Chatter that he was the favorite with Philly, but if the Sixers DO trade back to 5, what does that tell us? Utah wont likely be taking on Paul George and drafting Ace, unless they believe PG will mentor Bailey into a real pro verses a narcissistic chucker. More likely this move is to jump ahead of CLT to draft K-Nipple. Sixers decide to take either VJ or Tre at 5 but could still flip to Ace.

THAT sets up the Hornets to trade back with either the Wiz or Pelicans who are seriously interested in Ace (especially New Orleans). But they may just take Edgecombe there and call it a day. That would have made me pretty happy a week ago. Now I’m more convinced VJ has a lower ceiling than we thought.

And…I do not want an aged Paul George. Not on our timetable and not convinced any OLD vet delivers the change agency we need here. Trading away unfocused players for tough, dedicated ones changes the team.
I continue to wait...and hope...for the return to Hornet's glory.
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Re: 2025 General Draft Discussion 2 

Post#397 » by fatlever » Yesterday 5:12 am

This ace situation has me thinking back on what are the top draft shenanigans by players and their agents to try to steer them to a particular situation in draft history or at least in my lifetime of paying attention/
1. danny ferry - Straight up said **** you to the Clippers and went to Europe
2. kobe - Obviously the most famous of agent manipulation ahead of a draft to steer their client to a particular location
3. stevie franchise - The look on his face when Vancouver drafted him was priceless. Just flat out refused to sign for them.
4. brandon roy - Faking a stomach ache to get out of working out for the Hornets to try to force his way to Portland. lol.

What are some other great examples of this in recent memory?
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Re: 2025 General Draft Discussion 2 

Post#398 » by fatlever » Yesterday 2:53 pm

https://www.reddit.com/r/NBA_Draft/s/L4E2wGUwgo

If true, forget moving up for harper

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Re: 2025 General Draft Discussion 2 

Post#399 » by MasterIchiro » Yesterday 3:23 pm

fatlever wrote:https://www.reddit.com/r/NBA_Draft/s/L4E2wGUwgo

If true, forget moving up for harper

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Harper is a serious prospect. Spurs were always going to pair Harper with Wemby (and Castle).

Their stance to hold strong on that Wemby core may explain the reason Giannis is staying put in Milwaukee for now.

Sixers are on the clock.
It has been written...
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Re: 2025 General Draft Discussion 2 

Post#400 » by Catchall » Yesterday 3:33 pm

JDR720 wrote:Paul Georges contract is worth the 3rd pick straight up, not moving back only 2 spots.


Andy Larsen said that deal is on the table, but that the Jazz wouldn't do that deal.

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