Next 8 Games...Fools Gold? Or Good Trading Opportunity?

[penquin11]

Battery let me ask you this simple question:

Did LB ever change his strategy to fit the Bobcats roster?
The answer is no, he didnt. DJ isnt a pass-first PG, T2 isnt a true PF, and Diaw is more of a playmaker then a inside the paint guy. And yet if you were to watch a bobcats game you would notice that he didnt play the guys to their strengths like Popovich or Jackson have, he is so stuck on his own strategy that he forgot to play his team to their strengths....

[BigSlam]

Last night DJ and the rest of this bunch had almost a week to ponder what went wrong. I can bet all of them to a man took stock in their own play, which I'm sure made them feel embarrassed and struck at their very inner core which I described in my earlier post. That is what motivated them last night, their pride and embarrassment and wanting to prove they aren't a bunch of chumps.

No, the freedom of being allowed to be who they are motivated them.

I've NEVER met a man who says being hen pecked by his wife makes him love her more - but that is what you suggest. It's absurd.

Likewise, I guess you would condone beating a dog with a stick every day so it knows it's place then be totally shocked the day the same dog rips your face off?

Beat a dog with a stick and it "might" (and even that is a huge might) do what it's told. Feed it treats and show it love and it will be loyal forever.

Now the trick is to keep it up. LB can't get fired after every game and Silas will be here at least to the end of the season

Totally agree with this.

So it will be up to the players to continue with that inner strength and determination of ALWAYS wanting to prove everyone wrong. A coaches system is not going to change hustle, effort and desire to be great, it's going to be coaches and players themselves challenging one another to ALWAYS strive for excellence and not to settle for mediocrity.

Totally disagree with this. A coaches system has EVERYTHING to do with players effort. It's about balance. If you demand someone cut your grass every day with hand shears in the blazing hot sun but never let them lay down on the freshly cut grass enjoying the fruits of their labor and relaxing in the warm sun how do you think you keep them motivated to continue cutting the grass - especially when they see others are allowed to enjoy the grass?

That exact thing happened last night. The guys were allowed to run. They were allowed to score. They were allowed to move freely - and that enjoyment extended to the defensive end where we played maybe our best defensive game of the season.

As a coach you NEED balance. You HAVE to give a little to get a little. You have to allow players to just...................."be".

Thats how you become a good player in the Pro's and how you become a good team. You cannot let up, players or coaches, otherwise someone has to go and it's usually the head coach because you can't fire all the players.

No you can't fire all the players. So what bad coaches do it to continually insist on trades, continually go hot and cold on players and then do things like play McGuire instead of Brown just to serve your own twisted purpose.

About Raymond. What do you think made him become a better player this season?

It's pretty simply. Getting away from Larry Brown. Jared Dudley said the exact same thing.

This is why Larry always said you cannot coach hustle and effort and you can only tell a player in so many ways that he's not giving 110% effort at all times before you say enough is enough

Players aren't going to play with "heart and hustle" when the guy they are meant to be answering to treats them like sh*t. Dude, as much as you saying "pro sportsmen have an inbuilt passion and drive to want to get better" - hey, guess what - they are still human beings, and it's human nature to distance yourself as far as possible from negative influences, not rise to please them.

And in our case it took LB getting fired for the players to realize they just weren't giving that good team effort at all times.

No, in our case it was a celebration of the players that LB was no longer holding them back.

[BobsBuddy]

trade checker 5785788 Trade Diaw and Nazr expiring to Orlando for Jrich expirng
Then trade Wallace, diop and dj, to Portland for Miller/Camby/ 2011 1st round pick THIS Ain't fools gold But real
Starting
Miller/ Livingston/Collins
Jrich/Hendo/Carroll
Jax/Dmac/Najera
TT/DBrown/NBDL 4
Camby/K.Brown/NBDL 5

Run/Win/Save lots of money on Jrich expiring 14 million 2011/Pick up another 2011 mid teen first round pick

[e4Nf6]

One of my biggest pet-peeves in sports is that every time team A beats team B it's because team A "played harder," or because Team A "wanted it more" It's the most ridiculous thing in the world. It's the go-to cliché for every crappy ex-jock commentator that can't think of anything else to say.

Sometimes effort is the main factor in a game. Sometimes one team is miles better and all the motivation in the world wouldn't make a difference. Sometimes there are tactical or strategic decisions that are hurting or helping the team. It's more complicated than "who want's it more"

There were definitely some motivation problems in the last few weeks but there were also some very basic things that Larry taught which were not working for this team. DJ and Matt Carrol would only shoot if they were wide open to an extent that you rarely see in the NBA because Larry doesn't believe in taking three pointers unless you have a gun to your head. The Spurs shoot a ton of 3's and always have. If Larry was the coach Manu would constantly run into 4 help defenders in the lane who didn't hesitate to leave Larry's "effort" (translation: no jump shot) guys standing around the perimeter, as if there was something useful they could do out there.

Larry also doesn't believe in pushing the ball up the court. Tony Parker would NEVER be allowed to fly up the court like he does if Brown was the coach.

The offense in general was horrible and had always been that way under LB. He deserves the blame for that as much as he deserves credit for how good the defense was.

[Vanderbilt_Grad]

Battery I’ve worked for good managers and for terrible ones. It makes a difference.

I’ll never forget the woman who literally screamed at everyone just about every day. Good people left because of her and even the bad ones hated her guts. Her screaming never motivated anyone and just turned people off. No one could work at their best in that environment.

LB is similar. He’s inflexible. He’s a screamer. Eventually he always wears thin and has to go. That’s not to say he doesn’t have strong points. Clearly some players benefit from playing for him. It’s just in the long run it never works out. If this were the first team that had quit on him that would be one thing but it’s not. When you have multiple failures you look for the common cause … and in this case it was always LB.

Bringing up how much the players make is a straw man. It really doesn’t matter how much or how little they make. They are human beings with feelings, strengths and weaknesses of their own. Any human being was going to crumble under the constant negativity of LB after a while no matter how much MJ or anyone else paid them.

[Vanderbilt_Grad]

Also regarding the offense and e4Nf6's post ... that's spot on. Larry's "system" was rooted in the past before 3 point shooting and various rules changes altered the game. It was one of his great failures as a coach that he couldn't adjust to the changing NBA in much the same way as he couldn't adjust to players with different strengths than the ones he wanted.

[Battery]

It's no surprise you guys don't understand a single word of what I said. Enjoy your always wanting to strive for mediocrity.


Slam, I remember a comment you made to me over the summer when you said, "you cannot expect a player to give 100% effort every night."

Very telling. And a good life lesson in the real world too. But in the NBA it's the difference between a teams fan base always striving for excellence and a fan base thats just happy they have a team to root for. It's why fans in NY criticize mistakes even when the team wins and why most in Charlotte gleefully cheer on 5 point wins against pathetic teams like Detroit who just came off a second game of a back to back.

You can bet Popovich if he coached the Bobcats would have ripped the players to shreds after last nights game. Can't give up 100 points to the Pistons while almost blowing a 21 point lead. That is unacceptable...to any great coach.

[Battery]

One other thing....

this fan base is terrible.

Yep, I'm calling out this fan base. It's embarrassing. Probably why we need a PA announcer to tell us when to scream DE-FENSE. God do I really HATE that. Pisses me off when I'm at the games more than the team itself.

[captaincrunk]

One other thing....

this fan base is terrible.

Yep, I'm calling out this fan base. It's embarrassing. Probably why we need a PA announcer to tell us when to scream DE-FENSE. God do I really HATE that. Pisses me off when I'm at the games more than the team itself.

You're such a drama queen. Go soak your head in a toilet.

[Vanderbilt_Grad]

It's no surprise you guys don't understand a single word of what I said.

Battery you are wrong ... and not just about this.

[Battery]

It's no surprise you guys don't understand a single word of what I said.

Battery you are wrong ... and not just about this.

I don't care.

Your example of that woman in your office screaming her head off is not a comparable situation. That woman does not have the best workers in the world and she doesn't have to manage people with very large guaranteed contracts who have to be in shape both physically and mentally. On top of that she does not have to compete against another team who's actively trying to stop her every night from getting the job done.

I provided a comparable to situation. Gregg Popovich and Tony Parker during Parker's first three seasons in the NBA. He SCREAMED at him those first 3 years. Why is that any different than LB screaming at DJ? The difference is the Spurs had TIM DUNCAN a veteran leader who understands 110% effort at all times and who understands coaches are there to try and get the best out of players. And Parker said it only made him stronger. THAT is what GREAT players are made of. If DJ can't handle the heat then we need to find players who can, otherwise we will never have a great team.


And I don't know why this thread dissolved into a Larry Brown bash. This thread was supposed to be about our easy schedule over the next 8 games and how it plays into the makeup of this team going forward. Larry Brown is not here anymore. This is about the players who are still here and whether or not it's worth it to keep this bunch intact. I say no, even if we win 6 of the next 8 because like I said it is fools gold if you still believe in this group.

Oh and the Los Angeles Kobe's just lost their third straight blowout. So I guess they must be quitting on Phil.

[SWedd523]

So it's DJ's fault he doesn't have a Tim Duncan type of player with him? Now I'm understanding you.



It's DJ's fault.





p.s. I don't see how you can compare Parker's situation with DJ's. That Spurs team was a great team so the pressure wasn't on Parker. They also had the best PF of all time commanding attention on both ends of the floor. Not to mention Manu, Bowen, and a host of other players that make that situation entirely better than the one DJ is in.

But hey, if you want to compare a great, established team like the Spurs with a ramshackle, bad team like the lolcats, then I won't complain.

[SWedd523]

Oh and the reason the Lakers are losing is because their MIND isn't in the game like it should be. They're coasting and playing it soft while they wait for the playoffs. See, there IS an identifiable mental aspect to the game.

They don't care. Neither did we. Glad you could make that comparison for us

[Battery]

So it's DJ's fault he doesn't have a Tim Duncan type of player with him? Now I'm understanding you.



It's DJ's fault.





p.s. I don't see how you can compare Parker's situation with DJ's. That Spurs team was a great team so the pressure wasn't on Parker. They also had the best PF of all time commanding attention on both ends of the floor. Not to mention Manu, Bowen, and a host of other players that make that situation entirely better than the one DJ is in.

But hey, if you want to compare a great, established team like the Spurs with a ramshackle, bad team like the lolcats, then I won't complain.

You miss the point and haven't been following along. Fats was talking about how great a coach Popovich is and how he's able to adapt to different situations and he compared that to how Larry Brown adjusts to situations. So my point is that it's easier for Popovich to coach a young player like Parker (and scream at him for 3 years) when he already has players on the team who understand what it takes to be great. Larry was trying to break down DJ and make him tougher but we just don't have the surrounding cast in place this season with veterans who understand the coaching process and able to keep us afloat while DJ goes through "training." Couple that with MJ's demand that we win now, and the higher expectations off of last season made LB run out of time and not able to finish the job.

[Battery]

The Lakers lose 3 straight and it's already begun on realgm....

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=1079503

[Diop]

Bryant 8 from 27 shots.
Next highest shot taker Shannon Brown with 1 from 11

Must be hard for Kobe to be playing on such a talentless team that he has to take all the shots.
How ridiculous. I

[therebirth]

I am so glad LB is gone. It is obvious he was done with DJ and plotting to trade him for an overpaid has been. You can be sure all these trade rumors involving DJ you hear about now were to cater to LB. Thank goodness he is not allowed to destroyed this franchise anymore than he has.

[penquin11]

Silas is cool

Btw is everyone done with the thread war???

[fatlever]

some interesting comments about effort and coaching from byron scott and draftexpress

scott ripped his team for lack of effort and said players dont try as hard now as they did in the 80s. i agree with ball-dont-lie, scott using this as motivation is fine, but i remember watching plenty of games in the 80s where players were giving half-assed effort. but, i do think there are way too many overpaid NBA players who dont appreciate what they have and think being an NBA player is a right not a privilege.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_d ... nba-301193

http://www.draftexpress.com/twitter.php

DraftExpress: Most underrated, under-reported problem in NBA. RT @basketballtalk: Byron Scott calls lack of effort around NBA “scary” http://dlvr.it/CG3z8
2010-12-28 05:38:59

DraftExpress: I understand why players don't give 100% all the time BTW. There are just too many games in the regular season. They want to pace themselves
2010-12-28 05:54:25

DraftExpress: Long, guaranteed contracts also play a role in this. In Europe if a guy consistently half-asses, the team will find a way to void contract.
2010-12-28 05:56:32

DraftExpress: I've also been told that many of the lesser established NBA coaches aren't able to get in their player's faces as much as they'd like to.
2010-12-28 05:59:27

DraftExpress: NBA coaches (excluding the Gregg Popovich's and Jerry Sloan's) say they know they only have so many "F you's" they can dish out in a season.
2010-12-28 06:01:11

DraftExpress: If a team's star player(s) turn against the coach, that guy is probably toast. Its much easier to change the coach than change the roster.
2010-12-28 06:02:46

[penquin11]

They really arent trying tho...