Struggle Street - The Gary Neal Thread

[JDR720]

oh boy you guys will not like neal. he is so bad. doesn't pass ever and just chucks plus plays super bad defense

thats a coaching problem

Nothing a real coach can't fix. Popovich was able to mask it. Question is how much Clifford can do. Even he can't stop Ben Gordon from being a stupid f*ck.

that was BG's first game in forever it was expected that he was gonna chuck up shots

[fatlever]

Let's not try to make Ben Gordon out to be a jerk just because he accepted a large overpayment of monies from Joe Dumars. If you guys think Gordon is a problem, I can't wait until Cho & Co. overpay for Lance Stephenson aka The Headache, in which I hope doesn't happen

my joke is a lot funnier if gordon is a delusional vet who still thinks its 2008. its not funny at all if gordon is a humble, hard working teammate who all the guys in the lockerroom love.

[JDR720]

oh boy you guys will not like neal. he is so bad. doesn't pass ever and just chucks plus plays super bad defense

you just described almost every player on the Bucks

[linguini8]

oh boy you guys will not like neal. he is so bad. doesn't pass ever and just chucks plus plays super bad defense

you just described almost every player on the Bucks

Well that's definitely not true. Knight, Mayo, and Butler are the only chuckers now that Neal, the worst of them all, is gone. If you've watched any Bucks games this year you'd have seen Neal in with the young guys and blatantly avoid passing them the ball to chuck away for his own stat line. While playing atrocious defense. Worse than Brandon Jennings defense. He will not come in and be the player who scored 24 points off of 17 shots in 25 minutes of one NBA Finals game. A super unimpressive feat by the way. He will be the player who went 15/41 in the other 6 games. The player whose massive flaws were hidden in his 20mpg by playing alongside 2? potential Hall of Famers and the greatest PF of all time, while being coached by one of the greatest of all time. He is 29 years old, didn't make a roster until he was 26, he looks like a chubby gnome running down the court chucking away with 19 seconds on the shot clock, and you will all be massively unimpressed and brought back to earth when you realize you probably just got worse from this trade while trying to get better for a playoff push. Can't believe someone called this a classic, under the radar, phenomenal trade by Cho. Oh how different you will feel two or three weeks from now.

[gehenherzog]

Let's not try to make Ben Gordon out to be a jerk just because he accepted a large overpayment of monies from Joe Dumars. If you guys think Gordon is a problem, I can't wait until Cho & Co. overpay for Lance Stephenson aka The Headache, in which I hope doesn't happen

He was a problem last season. Been nothing but class this season other than being disinterested on the bench.

[gehenherzog]

oh boy you guys will not like neal. he is so bad. doesn't pass ever and just chucks plus plays super bad defense

you just described almost every player on the Bucks

Well that's definitely not true. Knight, Mayo, and Butler are the only chuckers now that Neal, the worst of them all, is gone. If you've watched any Bucks games this year you'd have seen Neal in with the young guys and blatantly avoid passing them the ball to chuck away for his own stat line. While playing atrocious defense. Worse than Brandon Jennings defense. He will not come in and be the player who scored 24 points off of 17 shots in 25 minutes of one NBA Finals game. A super unimpressive feat by the way. He will be the player who went 15/41 in the other 6 games. The player whose massive flaws were hidden in his 20mpg by playing alongside 2? potential Hall of Famers and the greatest PF of all time, while being coached by one of the greatest of all time. He is 29 years old, didn't make a roster until he was 26, he looks like a chubby gnome running down the court chucking away with 19 seconds on the shot clock, and you will all be massively unimpressed and brought back to earth when you realize you probably just got worse from this trade while trying to get better for a playoff push. Can't believe someone called this a classic, under the radar, phenomenal trade by Cho. Oh how different you will feel two or three weeks from now.

This coming from a Milwaukee fan?

[KembaWalker]

this is almost a carbon copy of the move we made in 2010 to pick up Larry Hughes. Thought Larry did pretty for us in the playoffs as well.

Most underrated part of this trade is it means the ball will be in Kembas hands even more which we need it to be. Sessions was a crutch. Going by the press conference its Neal was pretty clear to note that his job here is to stand there and space the floor for Jefferson

[gehenherzog]

this is almost a carbon copy of the move we made in 2010 to pick up Larry Hughes. Thought Larry did pretty for us in the playoffs as well.

Most underrated part of this trade is it means the ball will be in Kembas hands even more which we need it to be. Sessions was a crutch. Going by the press conference its Neal was pretty clear to note that his job here is to stand there and space the floor for Jefferson

Thought it was clear, neither were "happy" in Milwaukee. That's why I don't put much weight in their stats or the opinion of Bucks fans

[linguini8]

Neal wasnt happy in Milwaukee because he wasnt given the minutes he was apparently told hed get. But that happens when the 18 year old rookie and 21/22 year old role players are blatantly and significantly better than you. Check his stats in SA, not any better than his stats in Milwaukee. As Bobcat fans its easy to see a guy who scored 24 points in a finals game last year and think he would be a big time boost to your roster. But reference my last post and see that he took 17 shots in 25 minutes that game, then shot a combined 35% in the other 6. Theres a reason SA let him go and a reason he couldnt find anything more than a 2/5 contract with the worst team in the NBA. He belongs in the Dleague. As for the earning his money thing with Sanders, hes definitely earned his money as our tank commander. Its hard to be that awful and he really came through for Bucks fans this season.

[mrknowitall215]

Neal wasnt happy in Milwaukee because he wasnt given the minutes he was apparently told hed get. But that happens when the 18 year old rookie and 21/22 year old role players are blatantly and significantly better than you. Check his stats in SA, not any better than his stats in Milwaukee. As Bobcat fans its easy to see a guy who scored 24 points in a finals game last year and think he would be a big time boost to your roster. But reference my last post and see that he took 17 shots in 25 minutes that game, then shot a combined 35% in the other 6. Theres a reason SA let him go and a reason he couldnt find anything more than a 2/5 contract with the worst team in the NBA. He belongs in the Dleague. As for the earning his money thing with Sanders, hes definitely earned his money as our tank commander. Its hard to be that awful and he really came through for Bucks fans this season.

I agree with you 'linguini8' to a certain extent that Neal isn't what some of us Bobcats' fans are perceiving him to be. Like I aforementioned in this thread, Neal is almost like a carbon copy of Ben Gordon, where his flaws could be masked within a winning structure, but that's not necessarily a bad thing for Charlotte when their starting option at shooting guard is a lax Henderson as long as Neal is ready to give effort & motivation to play within the confines of this team. I welcome Neal's ability to take & make tough shots, especially from beyond the arc. It should do the Bobcats good in their playoff push to have his perimeter shooting

[KembaWalker]

the difference is the Bucks traded for him based on being that guy in San Antonio thinking he could do even more or breakout. that was mutual between then and MIL and it didnt work out so both sides were annoyed.

We literally just want him to stand there and shoot open shots. We know that, he knows that, coach knows that. Like I said, I'm expecting Larry Hughes 2010 impact. Ridnour is the real x factor of this move. interested to see what he has left in the tank

[fatlever]

ben gordon was 1-for-7 with 4 pts and 2 rebs last night in 20 minutes. that is neal's competition. if he cant beat that, then yeah, we will be disappointed.

[doc.end]

ben gordon was 1-for-7 with 4 pts and 2 rebs last night in 20 minutes. that is neal's competition. if he cant beat that, then yeah, we will be disappointed.

It's funny half of Bulls board still thinks he can play and we just misuse him or something.

[Logander]

Let's not try to make Ben Gordon out to be a jerk just because he accepted a large overpayment of monies from Joe Dumars. If you guys think Gordon is a problem, I can't wait until Cho & Co. overpay for Lance Stephenson aka The Headache, in which I hope doesn't happen

He's the league leader in triple doubles and Him being a headache could be fixed with the right leadership and coaching.

[Marvel]

I think Stephenson's real value will be tested in the playoffs. And I think he will deliver, which will mean some team will go nuts and sign him to a ridiculous contract.

I really wish this thread was The Anthony Morrow Thread. I think he could be of been our Kyle Korver just quietly.

[mrknowitall215]

Let's not try to make Ben Gordon out to be a jerk just because he accepted a large overpayment of monies from Joe Dumars. If you guys think Gordon is a problem, I can't wait until Cho & Co. overpay for Lance Stephenson aka The Headache, in which I hope doesn't happen

He's the league leader in triple doubles and Him being a headache could be fixed with the right leadership and coaching.

Haberstroh: Proving or debunking conventional wisdom

The conventional wisdom: Lance Stephenson is an All-Star snub.
The unconventional stat: Sub-20 PER in triple-double games.

For casual viewers, leaving Stephenson off the All-Star ballot might seem like a crime. I mean, look at all of those triple-doubles! We've been conditioned to believe that triple-doubles are badges of outstanding play. But is that really the case? Is tallying 12 points, 10 rebounds and 10 assists (Stephenson's outing against Boston on Dec. 22) automatically a better performance than, say, LeBron James' game when he put up 30 points on 13-for-17 shooting, 9 rebounds and 9 assists against Utah on Dec. 16? Of course not. Triple-doubles might be tidy, but they're not especially telling.

[Elden Payton]

Good post MKIA.

[Logander]

Let's not try to make Ben Gordon out to be a jerk just because he accepted a large overpayment of monies from Joe Dumars. If you guys think Gordon is a problem, I can't wait until Cho & Co. overpay for Lance Stephenson aka The Headache, in which I hope doesn't happen

He's the league leader in triple doubles and Him being a headache could be fixed with the right leadership and coaching.

The conventional wisdom: Lance Stephenson is an All-Star snub.
The unconventional stat: Sub-20 PER in triple-double games.

For casual viewers, leaving Stephenson off the All-Star ballot might seem like a crime. I mean, look at all of those triple-doubles! We've been conditioned to believe that triple-doubles are badges of outstanding play. But is that really the case? Is tallying 12 points, 10 rebounds and 10 assists (Stephenson's outing against Boston on Dec. 22) automatically a better performance than, say, LeBron James' game when he put up 30 points on 13-for-17 shooting, 9 rebounds and 9 assists against Utah on Dec. 16? Of course not. Triple-doubles might be tidy, but they're not especially telling.

That article did nothing but assume that because I value triple doubles I don't know more about basketball than you which I find pretty laughable. Also anyone with a brain would favor the Lebron comparison in your whatever you'd like to call what you posted. Having 20 more points while being 1 reb and 1 assist shy of a triple double trumps only scoring 12 points with the 1 extra reb and assist. Nonetheless, a triple double is a triple double. They are there for a reason and are valued high because of the skill level involved in obtaining them and I think that tells enough about a player contrary to what this article or you think.

[mrknowitall215]

That article did nothing but assume that because I value triple doubles I don't know more about basketball than you which I find pretty laughable.

I'm not accusing you of not knowing more about basketball than me or anybody else, and neither does the article. The article is just stating that even though Stephenson has been posting triple-doubles, the efficiency rating beyond those raw numbers haven't been all that impressive. Do you know how difficult it is to fill the stat sheet up with double-figures in 3 different plus categories for a triple-double and yet still have a PER of under 20 in that respective game? As far as my opinion towards you, I've always respected your posts on here. I'm just standing my ground on Stephenson's future outlook on another team outside of the Pacers' organization

I don't dislike the notion of the Bobcats possibly signing Stephenson because I don't think he'll be a helpful player, no, not at all, because he'd be a much better starting SG option based on skill set & talent than Henderson. My objection is that if Stephenson end up receiving a deal over $10 million annually, although he may be solid in production with that team, he will never live up to that contract on a team that 'depends' on him

[Logander]

That article did nothing but assume that because I value triple doubles I don't know more about basketball than you which I find pretty laughable.

I'm not accusing you of not knowing more about basketball than me or anybody else, and neither does the article. The article is just stating that even though Stephenson has been post triple-doubles, the efficiency rating beyond those raw numbers haven't been all that impressive. Do you know how difficult it is to fill the stat sheet up with double-figures in 3 different plus categories for a triple-double and yet still have a PER of under 20 in that respective game? As far as my opinion towards you, I've always respected your posts on here. I'm just standing my ground on Stephenson's future outlook on another team outside of the Pacers' organization

I don't dislike the notion of the Bobcats possibly signing Stephenson because I don't think he'll be a helpful player, no, not at all, because he'd be a much better starting SG option based on skill set & talent than Henderson. My objection is that if Stephenson end up receiving a deal over $10 million annually, although he may be solid in production with that team, he will never live up to the contract on a team that 'depends' on him

Fair enough. So where you were getting at is his triple doubles could have more so to do with the team he's currently on than his actual production?

EDIT: you edited your post after I had sent this through originally but I'm just going leave it up here even though you answered it.