Around the NBA 8.0

Post #41 » by **yosemiteben** » Sat Oct 24, 2015 6:08 pm

Jeff Adrien also got cut. I mean there has to be a reason that CDR and Adrien haven't made rosters since the 2013-14 season.

HornetJail · Post #42 » by **HornetJail** » Sat Oct 24, 2015 6:46 pm

yosemiteben wrote:Jeff Adrien also got cut. I mean there has to be a reason that CDR and Adrien haven't made rosters since the 2013-14 season.

Nobody pays attention to the Bobcats/Hornets. It's that simple.

But hey, why not bring them back to the team they were most successful with? I'd understand not bring Adrien back given all our frontcourt depth, and with Psycho T in his role, but not bringing back CDR at a minimum salary would be almost inexcusable.

Post #43 » by **yosemiteben** » Sat Oct 24, 2015 7:26 pm

MotorKeepsGoing wrote:
yosemiteben wrote:Jeff Adrien also got cut. I mean there has to be a reason that CDR and Adrien haven't made rosters since the 2013-14 season.

Nobody pays attention to the Bobcats/Hornets. It's that simple.

They've both been cut multiple times by multiple teams since they played for us though. I don't buy that excuse.

tonman · Post #44 » by **tonman** » Sun Oct 25, 2015 7:36 am

amcoolio wrote:The NBA: Where guys like Tristan Thompson, John Henson and Harrison Barnes get paid like Cam Newton and Aaron Rodgers

Barnes has a ring and Henson is paid half of what Thompson makes. Wonder why you pick those two......

LamarMatic7 · Post #45 » by **LamarMatic7** » Sun Oct 25, 2015 12:41 pm

Jeff van Gundy stays on the Steve Clifford bandwagon and calls us the lottery team which in his opinion is underrated and will do better than most think.

It's at about the 53-minute mark on Zach Lowe's podcast:
http://grantland.com/the-triangle/the-lowe-post-podcast-2015-16-nba-season-preview-with-jeff-van-gundy/

LamarMatic7 · Post #46 » by **LamarMatic7** » Sun Oct 25, 2015 12:42 pm

yosemiteben wrote:Jeff Adrien also got cut. I mean there has to be a reason that CDR and Adrien haven't made rosters since the 2013-14 season.

Matt Moore also wondered why Adrien keeps getting cut.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/HPbasketball/status/657979550782111744[/tweet]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/HPbasketball/status/657982807638155264[/tweet]

Post #47 » by **yosemiteben** » Sun Oct 25, 2015 1:30 pm

Yeah I don't really get it. The argument that they don't get a real opportunity is diminished in my mind due to (a) the fact that they've had several shots with different teams and couldn't stick on a roster and (b) unguaranteed short term deals are all the rage right now, so these are they types of guys that you'd think GMs would love to stick at the end of the bench on that type of deal.

James Gatz · Post #48 » by **James Gatz** » Sun Oct 25, 2015 2:33 pm

Very surprised Adrien was cut. Even Lowe mentioned he was a good guy to have on a min contract a few days ago.

tyusedney · Post #49 » by **tyusedney** » Tue Oct 27, 2015 7:18 am

Lance Stephenson will be starting for the Clippers. well deserved..
dlvr.it/CYtgxC

Braggins · Post #50 » by **Braggins** » Tue Oct 27, 2015 9:39 am

yosemiteben wrote:
MotorKeepsGoing wrote:
yosemiteben wrote:Jeff Adrien also got cut. I mean there has to be a reason that CDR and Adrien haven't made rosters since the 2013-14 season.

Nobody pays attention to the Bobcats/Hornets. It's that simple.

They've both been cut multiple times by multiple teams since they played for us though. I don't buy that excuse.

CDR is better Aaron Harrison, PJ Hairston, Troy Daniels, Damien Wilkins, and Elliot Williams. He performed better for us than any of them have and had great chemistry with our team and coach. I'm not sure what pointing out that other teams cut him is supposed to prove. I'm also not really sure why you insist on defending our front office about this. You act like their decisions are correct by definition. Do you just assume that all the wings we've tried out were better options than CDR because we had the option to go after him and chose not to?

Post #51 » by **yosemiteben** » Tue Oct 27, 2015 12:56 pm

Braggins wrote: I'm not sure what pointing out that other teams cut him is supposed to prove.

Think it's pretty obvious - that several other FOs and coaching staffs agree that he is not roster worthy.

Braggins wrote:I'm also not really sure why you insist on defending our front office about this. You act like their decisions are correct by definition. Do you just assume that all the wings we've tried out were better options than CDR because we had the option to go after him and chose not to?

No, I obviously am basing my argument on the fact that CDR can't make a roster after several attempts. I think his inability to make a roster is evidence that maybe he doesn't deserve a roster spot. Not sure how that is a homer argument.

I do find it ironic that we are now criticizing our FO and staff for valuing a young guy (20 year old Harrison) over a 29 year old journeyman vet, given how much we've enjoyed criticizing our FO and staff for valuing experience over youth.

Post #52 » by **yosemiteben** » Tue Oct 27, 2015 3:38 pm

Mark Seidel ‏@_MarkSeidel 1h1 hour ago Las Vegas, NV
JP Tokoto cut by the Sixers....Headed to the D-League instead of playing his senior season on a national championship contender. #Ego

Tokoto had to know that was a major risk, he was far from a lock to make a roster.

HornetJail · Post #53 » by **HornetJail** » Tue Oct 27, 2015 4:14 pm

yosemiteben wrote:
Braggins wrote: I'm not sure what pointing out that other teams cut him is supposed to prove.

Think it's pretty obvious - that several other FOs and coaching staffs agree that he is not roster worthy.

Braggins wrote:I'm also not really sure why you insist on defending our front office about this. You act like their decisions are correct by definition. Do you just assume that all the wings we've tried out were better options than CDR because we had the option to go after him and chose not to?

No, I obviously am basing my argument on the fact that CDR can't make a roster after several attempts. I think his inability to make a roster is evidence that maybe he doesn't deserve a roster spot. Not sure how that is a homer argument.

I do find it ironic that we are now criticizing our FO and staff for valuing a young guy (20 year old Harrison) over a 29 year old journeyman vet, given how much we've enjoyed criticizing our FO and staff for valuing experience over youth.

Are you completely forgetting that he actually had success with this very core? Yeah he's not a great player in every system, but he PROVED himself on a team with Jefferson and Kemba- likely our top 2 players going into the season. It's baffling that we haven't even thought about bringing him back.

Post #54 » by **yosemiteben** » Tue Oct 27, 2015 4:48 pm

MotorKeepsGoing wrote:Are you completely forgetting that he actually had success with this very core? Yeah he's not a great player in every system, but he PROVED himself on a team with Jefferson and Kemba- likely our top 2 players going into the season. It's baffling that we haven't even thought about bringing him back.

For starters, we don't know (and I highly doubt) that we didn't think about bringing him back. Pure conjecture there, and IMO highly unlikely. Going into last season we added Lance and PJ while still holding on to MKG, Hendo, Neal, and Taylor (and Marvin). There wasn't a lot of space for CDR in our wing rotation, so I think it was a reasonable decision to let him go and prioritize big man depth.

Second, CDR played well as a role player in limited minutes for a portion of a season almost two years ago, and he hasn't matched that production before or since. I would rather keep a promising young player than make space for CDR when CDR hasn't proven to be able to consistently perform at a respectable level.

I get why people like him, he was pretty good for us and he's a cool dude, but it's not this completely baffling decision not to try to pick him up.

Post #55 » by **fatlever** » Tue Oct 27, 2015 4:48 pm

I'm with MKG on this one. CDR maybe wasn't a good fit for other teams, but we know he was a good fit here. It's not a huge deal though. I can understand why the team would roll the dice on the rookie with upside vs the vet with a lower ceiling, who also wasn't with us in preseason/training camp. We are running a new offense, so much of what we did when CDR was here is gone.

Post #56 » by **yosemiteben** » Tue Oct 27, 2015 4:59 pm

Meh, Neal was a good fit here for a couple months. Then December of 2014 happened.

Snidely FC · Post #57 » by **Snidely FC** » Tue Oct 27, 2015 8:34 pm

Five Thirty Eight sports posted a top 53 Carmelo ranking (based on future WARP)
3 Hornets appeared:
52. Cody Zeller
51: MKG (would have been higher but got a 0 for this season)
47: Nic Batum

There were some ranks that surprised me. Paul George at 45 and Klay Thompson at 31 seemed low. Josef Nurkic at 27 and Elfrid Payton at 14 seemed high.

Here's the link: http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-53-best-franchise-players-in-the-nba/

Braggins · Post #58 » by **Braggins** » Tue Oct 27, 2015 9:47 pm

yosemiteben wrote:
Braggins wrote: I'm not sure what pointing out that other teams cut him is supposed to prove.

Think it's pretty obvious - that several other FOs and coaching staffs agree that he is not roster worthy.

Braggins wrote:I'm also not really sure why you insist on defending our front office about this. You act like their decisions are correct by definition. Do you just assume that all the wings we've tried out were better options than CDR because we had the option to go after him and chose not to?

No, I obviously am basing my argument on the fact that CDR can't make a roster after several attempts. I think his inability to make a roster is evidence that maybe he doesn't deserve a roster spot. Not sure how that is a homer argument.

I do find it ironic that we are now criticizing our FO and staff for valuing a young guy (20 year old Harrison) over a 29 year old journeyman vet, given how much we've enjoyed criticizing our FO and staff for valuing experience over youth.

You act like our front office decisions are correct by definition. If you really think that CDR wasnt worth giving a shot at a roster spot, but the other wings we tried were, please try making an actual argument for why they are better. Im really curious to see you try to explain why any of the players i mentioned are superior to CDR without just pointing out that CDR got cut. Seriously, give me your comparison of CDR and Damien Wilkens that explains how Wilkins is better. What promise are you seeing in Harrison? Do you think he has promise and is truly worth a roster spot for any reason other than him being given a roster spot by one of the worst franchises in the league in terms of talent evaluation? The argument you are trying to make is 100% a cop out.

Post #59 » by **yosemiteben** » Tue Oct 27, 2015 10:05 pm

Braggins wrote: If you really think that CDR wasnt worth giving a shot at a roster spot, but the other wings we tried were, please try making an actual argument for why they are better.

Harrison is almost 8 years younger than CDR, has good to great size for a guard and showed a propensity for clutchness in college. He showed decent decision making and scoring ability in summer league, he actually surprised me by how well he played, and that length is a real asset on the defensive end if he can guard PGs. I don't feel like I need to explain a whole lot more, he's a decent prospect that most expected to be drafted in the 2nd round. When you are talking about your 15th roster spot, what's wrong with rolling the dice on a higher upside prospect?

Braggins wrote:Seriously, give me your comparison of CDR and Damien Wilkens that explains how Wilkins is better.

If Wilkins made the roster or there was any sort of argument that we chose him over CDR, you might have a point. Wilkins got the invite after MKG went down and after CDR had already signed a training camp offer with NOP.

Vanderbilt_Grad · Post #60 » by **Vanderbilt_Grad** » Tue Oct 27, 2015 10:07 pm

yosemiteben wrote:Meh, Neal was a good fit here for a couple months. Then December of 2014 happened.

It's amusing to me to imagine the positive yosemiteben quotes that might have been if the team had brought CDR back.

"We know he played well with the team."
"Probably smart to bring back a part of the best chemistry year ever on such a small contract."
"You have to give the FO credit for going back to something that worked."

8-)