Fake Trade Thread

[MasterIchiro]

Consensus on T&T seems to be #2's are scarce if available at all for a rebuild package. Also they're saying picks outside the top 7 in this draft are not very valuable. So yeah, Fournier doesn't move the needle but neither does the pick. Here's the sad truth: at an efficient 18 PPG, Fournier is more of a #2 scorer than any of Kemba's teammates. My thinking is I want to trade out of this draft and the best we could hope for is a fringe #2. If Fournier can step up in a better lineup and have Kemba to distract the focus of the defense, I think he can average 20 and play team ball. Maybe to salvage the defense, MKG plays alongside Fournier at small forward and Monk is paired with someone who can get him better looks (Batum).

[catch20two]

Here's the sad truth: at an efficient 18 PPG, Fournier is more of a #2 scorer than any of Kemba's teammates.

Idk we saw Lamb efficiently average 17 PPG (44 FG%, 41 3P%) as a starter this season in 14 games this season too.

Add in the fact that Lamb has a better PER, assist %, RPM, DBPM, and VORP.

Ain’t nobody tryna pay Fournier $17M until 2021.

[Vanderbilt_Grad]

Getting Kemba a legit #2 scoring option would definitely help, but it's not the only path forward. Replacing MKG in the starting lineup with someone who can score better and still defend + getting a good backup PG would also do wonders for the team IMHO.

Fournier just doesn't fit with they guys on the squad now. I think that you would need more trades to really make him work here.

[catch20two]

If we’re gonna be trading a lottery pick then it better be for Jabari Parker or Julius Randle.

Our team weaknesses is our bigs (PF/C) and backup PG. Those are the positions that we need to be trying to address.

[Braggins]

I’m not interested in anyone that ONLY averaged 17 ppg as a #1 option on a losing team that was trying to make the playoffs the past 3 years.

Fournier’s defense is worse than Batum’s even when Batum don’t try. Contract aside Batum is the better player.

Not being a chucker limits your ppg even when on a losing team. His career high FG attempts per game is only 14.1. He actually plays smart on offense. I'm sure he could get more ppg if he was more willing to play losing basketball on offense. 18ppg on 46/38/87 shooting splits while being the main player the defense is focused on is actually pretty good. He doesn't get to play with an all-star like Kemba to make his advanced stats look better like Batum does and hes never been on a team that was even slightly functional.

I would take him over Batum even if their contracts were equal. Batum doesn't really help the team on either side of the ball and doesnt have a skill set that you can really take advantage of in any capacity other than being a backup combo forward playing like 20mpg. Fournier would be a good fit with Kemba on offense and we can get defense from other positions.

I wouldn't trade top 10ish pick for Fournier, but hes a better player than what you can generally hope to get with a mid to late 1st round pick.

Here's the sad truth: at an efficient 18 PPG, Fournier is more of a #2 scorer than any of Kemba's teammates.

Idk we saw Lamb efficiently average 17 PPG (44 FG%, 41 3P%) as a starter this season in 14 games this season too.

Add in the fact that Lamb has a better PER, assist %, RPM, DBPM, and VORP.

I think Lamb is better than Fournier, but he isnt as good of an offensive fit with Kemba. Lamb just isn't a 41% 3pt shooter at this point and he needs the ball in his hands a lot to be effective. I think Fournier would be good playing off ball as a secondary option with Kemba or with Lamb. We currently don't have the firepower to hang with the best teams and our defense isn't nearly good enough to make up for it. Fournier would improve our offense and could be pretty good sharing the secondary scorer role with Lamb.

Ain’t nobody tryna pay Fournier $17M until 2021.

I'd rather spend 23 mil on Fournier + a functional backup PG (Mack/Augustine) than 25 million on Batum.

[JDR720]

Dwight for Evan and Beastmack Biyombeast.

[Braggins]

Orlando has made some really perplexing trades the last few years. Who knows, they might do something like Batum + 2nd for Fournier + Mack straight up.

[catch20two]

I’m not interested in anyone that ONLY averaged 17 ppg as a #1 option on a losing team that was trying to make the playoffs the past 3 years.

Fournier’s defense is worse than Batum’s even when Batum don’t try. Contract aside Batum is the better player.

Not being a chucker limits your ppg even when on a losing team. His career high FG attempts per game is only 14.1. He actually plays smart on offense. I'm sure he could get more ppg if he was more willing to play losing basketball on offense. 18ppg on 46/38/87 shooting splits while being the main player the defense is focused on is actually pretty good. He doesn't get to play with an all-star like Kemba to make his advanced stats look better like Batum does and hes never been on a team that was even slightly functional.

I would take him over Batum even if their contracts were equal. Batum doesn't really help the team on either side of the ball and doesnt have a skill set that you can really take advantage of in any capacity other than being a backup combo forward playing like 20mpg. Fournier would be a good fit with Kemba on offense and we can get defense from other positions.

I wouldn't trade top 10ish pick for Fournier, but hes a better player than what you can generally hope to get with a mid to late 1st round pick.

Here's the sad truth: at an efficient 18 PPG, Fournier is more of a #2 scorer than any of Kemba's teammates.

Idk we saw Lamb efficiently average 17 PPG (44 FG%, 41 3P%) as a starter this season in 14 games this season too.

Add in the fact that Lamb has a better PER, assist %, RPM, DBPM, and VORP.

I think Lamb is better than Fournier, but he isnt as good of an offensive fit with Kemba. Lamb just isn't a 41% 3pt shooter at this point and he needs the ball in his hands a lot to be effective. I think Fournier would be good playing off ball as a secondary option with Kemba or with Lamb. We currently don't have the firepower to hang with the best teams and our defense isn't nearly good enough to make up for it. Fournier would improve our offense and could be pretty good sharing the secondary scorer role with Lamb.

Ain’t nobody tryna pay Fournier $17M until 2021.

I'd rather spend 23 mil on Fournier + a functional backup PG (Mack/Augustine) than 25 million on Batum.

But Fournier is playing losing basketball overall because his poor defense is outweighing his slightly above average offense lol.

As far as fit have you paid attention to how explosive our offense is whenever Kemba and Lamb are on the floor together. It’s way above average. We just don’t get to see enough of it because of Clifford.

I rather keep Batum and use him as a de facto PG with the 2nd unit than trade for Fournier and a backup PG. i don’t like the idea of neither Mack or Augustin as our backup PG even though they’re better than MCW.

[Braggins]

I’m not interested in anyone that ONLY averaged 17 ppg as a #1 option on a losing team that was trying to make the playoffs the past 3 years.

Fournier’s defense is worse than Batum’s even when Batum don’t try. Contract aside Batum is the better player.

Not being a chucker limits your ppg even when on a losing team. His career high FG attempts per game is only 14.1. He actually plays smart on offense. I'm sure he could get more ppg if he was more willing to play losing basketball on offense. 18ppg on 46/38/87 shooting splits while being the main player the defense is focused on is actually pretty good. He doesn't get to play with an all-star like Kemba to make his advanced stats look better like Batum does and hes never been on a team that was even slightly functional.

I would take him over Batum even if their contracts were equal. Batum doesn't really help the team on either side of the ball and doesnt have a skill set that you can really take advantage of in any capacity other than being a backup combo forward playing like 20mpg. Fournier would be a good fit with Kemba on offense and we can get defense from other positions.

I wouldn't trade top 10ish pick for Fournier, but hes a better player than what you can generally hope to get with a mid to late 1st round pick.

Idk we saw Lamb efficiently average 17 PPG (44 FG%, 41 3P%) as a starter this season in 14 games this season too.

Add in the fact that Lamb has a better PER, assist %, RPM, DBPM, and VORP.

I think Lamb is better than Fournier, but he isnt as good of an offensive fit with Kemba. Lamb just isn't a 41% 3pt shooter at this point and he needs the ball in his hands a lot to be effective. I think Fournier would be good playing off ball as a secondary option with Kemba or with Lamb. We currently don't have the firepower to hang with the best teams and our defense isn't nearly good enough to make up for it. Fournier would improve our offense and could be pretty good sharing the secondary scorer role with Lamb.

Ain’t nobody tryna pay Fournier $17M until 2021.

I'd rather spend 23 mil on Fournier + a functional backup PG (Mack/Augustine) than 25 million on Batum.

But Fournier is playing losing basketball overall because his poor defense is outweighing his slightly above average offense lol.

As far as fit have you paid attention to how explosive our offense is whenever Kemba and Lamb are on the floor together. It’s way above average. We just don’t get to see enough of it because of Clifford.

I rather keep Batum and use him as a de facto PG with the 2nd unit than trade for Fournier and a backup PG. i don’t like the idea of neither Mack or Augustin as our backup PG even though they’re better than MCW.

You can get a lot of mileage out of players like Fournier that are bad on defense but have his offensive skill set with good coaching. Look at how much value Houston gets out of a sieve like Ryan Anderson and he can literally only shoot spot up 3s. Its not hard to hide one bad defender. Batum can't create, shoot, or play defense.

I like the Kemba and Lamb fit, but i like Fournier's fit better. You could always just start both of them, but I would probably otherwise prefer Lamb as the 6th man because he has more athleticism to break down a defense consistently and hes better with the ball in his hands than without it, so he is more valuable than Fournier when Kemba is out of the game and there are a lot more touches up for grabs. I would play Lamb plenty of minutes with Kemba as well, but I would want Lamb in the game pretty much 100% of the time that Kemba is out.

I just think Batum pretty much sucks and if we could get a serviceable starter and a backup PG out of his salary I would do it. Passing and defensive rebounding are his only redeeming qualities and his turnovers partially negate his passing. Hed probably benefit from better coaching and playing a more natural position, so maybe I'm being overly negative, but I'm really tired of watching this dude play basketball and I have almost no trust in him.

[catch20two]

You can get a lot of mileage out of players like Fournier that are bad on defense but have his offensive skill set with good coaching. Look at how much value Houston gets out of a sieve like Ryan Anderson and he can literally only shoot spot up 3s. Its not hard to hide one bad defender. Batum can't create, shoot, or play defense.

I like the Kemba and Lamb fit, but i like Fournier's fit better. You could always just start both of them, but I would probably otherwise prefer Lamb as the 6th man because he has more athleticism to break down a defense consistently and hes better with the ball in his hands than without it, so he is more valuable than Fournier when Kemba is out of the game and there are a lot more touches up for grabs. I would play Lamb plenty of minutes with Kemba as well, but I would want Lamb in the game pretty much 100% of the time that Kemba is out.

I just think Batum pretty much sucks and if we could get a serviceable starter and a backup PG out of his salary I would do it. Passing and defensive rebounding are his only redeeming qualities and his turnovers partially negate his passing. Hed probably benefit from better coaching and playing a more natural position, so maybe I'm being overly negative, but I'm really tired of watching this dude play basketball and I have almost no trust in him.

We usually agree on a lot of stuff but on this one I just cannot. Fournier as a player just don’t tip the scales for me and I believe we have enough talent in-house with a few tweaks and a new coach to become legit contenders in the East without a legit superstar much alike Toronto and Boston.

The 3-man lineup of Kemba-Lamb-MKG is a force to be reckoned with. Together they have a 113.7 OFFRTG with a +15.2 NETRTG. Of course those numbers may not be sustainable and may even out some but I think that’s enough not to be considered a small sample size. http://stats.nba.com/team/1610612766/lineups-advanced/?Season=2017-18&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&sort=NET_RATING&dir=1&GroupQuantity=3&CF=MIN*GE*250

I just feel like all we need to do is get some bigs that aren’t liabilities that are willing to do the dirty work. If we could land somebody like Jabari Parker to play stretch 4 or a Julius Randle to play C without a doubt in my mind we’d be winning 45+ games up to maybe even 60 with the right coach.

As far as backup PG there’s always minimum guys that can be had off the scrap heap but Cho was just too blind to find them. I vouched for Trey Burke and now he’s over in NYK looking like the player he had potential to be 10 points and 4 assist in 16 minutes.

This offseason we’ll have the opportunity to go after a few guys that have kinda got lost in the shuffle that’ll be available for trades like Tyus Jones and Malcolm Brogdon.

Frank is a cult hero in Wisconsin. Maybe we could find a way to off him packaged with Dwight or Batum for Jabari and Brogdon.

I just don’t want to make trades this offseason for the sake of it and end up making lateral moves with more possibilities to be a backward move in hindsight. And paying Fournier $17M for the next 3 seasons is something that we could likely regret amid having Batum.

[BeesWax]

In a bubble of just getting Fournier then maybe it would be ok to have him at that cost but I am not paying him that amount of money and giving up the 10th pick. He isn't that far ahead of value with Batum. Batum and a second or Frank and sure I am in but I am not giving up our first to take back another mediocre player on a bad contract.

[Vanderbilt_Grad]

Contract aside, by the numbers Fournier isn't ahead of Batum anywhere except for pure scoring based metrics. For all that we complain about Nic's D, he's far more of a 2-way guy than Fournier and has a much more rounded skillset. Again, contract aside, by most of the advanced metrics Nic>Evan.

[chellis]

Orlando has made some really perplexing trades the last few years. Who knows, they might do something like Batum + 2nd for Fournier + Mack straight up.

Nah. New regime now. We wouldn’t be that lucky.

[Cheeze]

The rumble out of Rick Bonnell's noggin is that the Hornets are stuck in salary cap hell and, since no one wants Dwight or Nic or Marv, they'll have to sacrifice a good young player to stay viable under the cap. Bonnell's thinking is that they'll have to 'sacrifice' Jeremy Lamb to gain cap space. If that's the case, who do the Hornets do business with for Lamb? What would be the expected return?

[JDR720]

probably an early 2nd or late first.

[Braggins]

If the plan is to give up one of the teams very few good players just to get rid of a bad contract and avoid going into the tax they might as well just trade Kemba and tank. The team already isn't a playoff team and is going to be even worse if they just salary dump Lamb. That seems like such a bad idea if the goal is anything except saving MJ money.

[catch20two]

We’re going to trade Lamb and lose our second best scorer over the past two seasons in order to get worse lol. It’s going to be difficult to find a player that productive for only $7M a year. Yea they might as well trade Kemba too and just get a head start on the blow up to rebuild. Batum is over the hill. Cody and Frank are basically tapped out. Marv is almost in retirement status. Dwight is expiring and empty stats anyway because he’s a bird brain with a ego.

[MasterIchiro]

This is why I don't mind losing Lamb for Mack in the Fournier proposal. We're going to lose Lamb for a late first or 2nd rounder. Mack is going to make more of an impact. It is a shame that Lamb will become a casualty of not being able to move Dwight, Nic, Marvin or MKG.

[catch20two]

This is why I don't mind losing Lamb for Mack in the Fournier proposal. We're going to lose Lamb for a late first or 2nd rounder. Mack is going to make more of an impact. It is a shame that Lamb will become a casualty of not being able to move Dwight, Nic, Marvin or MKG.

Cho definitely should’ve been fired 2 years ago. He might’ve sabotaged the team to be in this position on purpose for when he exited lol.

[MasterIchiro]

This is why I don't mind losing Lamb for Mack in the Fournier proposal. We're going to lose Lamb for a late first or 2nd rounder. Mack is going to make more of an impact. It is a shame that Lamb will become a casualty of not being able to move Dwight, Nic, Marvin or MKG.

Cho definitely should’ve been fired 2 years ago. He might’ve sabotaged the team to be in this position on purpose for when he exited lol.

He sure left his luggage. And it's pretty damn heavy. I've hated his ass the whole time.