The "Dude": The Mitch Kupchak Thread

[316Hornets]

That's not a real option for this team though.

And why is that? If any team is able to sustain a tank, it should be this team with the AS game this year

[Rocketsbaby]

Congrats guys. You got a guy who officially knows how to run an organization. Now you just have to hope he hires people who know how to evaluate talent, make trades, navigate the cap, etc.

That's been the problem with the Hornets over the years they were just throwing darts at the board. All of their trades, signings, and draft picks were so random and disjointed. Al Jefferson, Nic Batum, Michael Kidd Gilchrist, Malik Monk .. in a vacuum each player has very little value. But with their powers combined, they basically have no value.
I would like to see Charlotte get back in the league. Remember the strike year Elden Campbell just roasted everyone ? Other than Miami last year that was one of the most epic playoff seeking rallies of all time.

[Rocketsbaby]

Neither surprising nor inspiring, but it's fine. A young, innovative mind would've been nice for the future but the more pressing issue is the cap situation. Given that perhaps a more experienced candidate is the correct call.

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If he can somehow get Julius Randle (sign and trade) or Parker from the Bucks and dump some of our trash (Marvin and/or Batum) then he will be a Legend for sure!

It's kind of insane to mention Julius Randle and Parker in the same sentence.

Trust me, the Bucks would love it if the Hornets would trade Marvin or Batum for Parker.

[DY_nasty]

Pros:

- Always drafted BPA in the first round or traded pick for an immediate impact player.

- Has found talent all over the second round trading up, back or buying back into the draft. (Clarkson, Zubac come to mind in his most recent drafts)*

- Seems to have a good rapport with a network of other GMs around the league.

Cons:

- MJ typically loves to unload second round picks.

- Will Mitch standup to MJ and his family in the draft war room?

- Will Mitch be allowed to bring in his own coach with a modern day offense?

*I can't remember if they traded or bought back in the second round or just flat drafted Clarkson with the Lakers' pick in the second round?


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where is this narrative coming from

"I'm not gonna say it again Cho - you're going to draft Zeller OR ELSE"

[Soul Rebel]

Congrats guys. You got a guy who officially knows how to run an organization. Now you just have to hope he hires people who know how to evaluate talent, make trades, navigate the cap, etc.

That's been the problem with the Hornets over the years they were just throwing darts at the board. All of their trades, signings, and draft picks were so random and disjointed. Al Jefferson, Nic Batum, Michael Kidd Gilchrist, Malik Monk .. in a vacuum each player has very little value. But with their powers combined, they basically have no value.
I would like to see Charlotte get back in the league. Remember the strike year Elden Campbell just roasted everyone ? Other than Miami last year that was one of the most epic playoff seeking rallies of all time.

Our biggest problem is drafting...plain and simple. Since 2004, who have we drafted that is a franchise or at least potential stud player?

Kemba is pretty much where it starts and ends. Next tier is Felton, DJ, Cody, MKG and maybe Frank. I do think Monk has potential to be in Kemba's tier over time, but that's a pretty sad look at 14 years of drafting. One franchise cornerstone, and some average role players with potential.

All of our moves have had to be via FA and roll the dice on trades because we have been so inept on draft night. Like criminally inept in this oh so important category of building a franchise.

I really believe the wise move is to deal MKG as a way of moving a bad contract, rather than a draft pick. Addition by subtraction..... he is a lovable guy and outstanding person, but is a void of a player who's defense is no longer his calling card. A great complimentary guy but not the guy we drafted or have been patient on. Honestly, I'd prefer to ship him out and get an asset, but we'd be selling low, so I think the draft pick attachment route would be the wise way to go without losing an important draft pick. Mikal Bridges would fill in to that SF role and bring us more than MKG would on the court.

[countryboi]

If he sucks, Im gonna call him Mitch the Beach (Substitute beach for something else....)

I dont know i kinda like Cupcake

[Vanderbilt_Grad]

- Will Mitch standup to MJ and his family in the draft war room?

where is this narrative coming from

"I'm not gonna say it again Cho - you're going to draft Zeller OR ELSE"

Curtis Polk (Jordan's long time adviser) & stuff from Jordan himself in interviews, mostly to the Observer. Bonnell even had a similar tidbit on a radio interview this year.

Basically the narrative is that the draft room is packed with all sorts of people from Jordan and Polk - to relatives like his daughter (representing the business side) - and Cliff. Bonnell's narrative this year was that Cho and Cliff clashed over who to draft last summer and Jordan "let" Cho win, since Cliff had already gotten his way on trading for Dwight.

The net effect of all those voices is that it sounds like the GM's say doesn't always carry a lot of weight when it comes to decision making the way things have been run up to this point.

[yosemiteben]

That's not a real option for this team though.

And why is that? If any team is able to sustain a tank, it should be this team with the AS game this year

I don't think MJ is going to tank the year that the spotlight is on CLT for the ASG. I also don't think Silver would allow it.

I also don't think the FO can sell another tank to season ticket holders. This is not a market where the team can just ignore the fanbase / season ticket holders.

Also I really don't think Kupchak signed up to do a Hinkie style blow up and rebuild. And I don't think that's necessary because this team is much better than its record indicates, as evidenced by its net rating and point differential always out performing its record.

[UNCNYC]

I can't be upset by this move for obvious reasons . But I like cho, and I think we would have improved if he stayed on as gm. Some think we haven't drafted well but I think we were decent. If you look at it, I don't think there has ever been a good drafter if you look at their total body of work for drafting players. Some gm's get lucky and stay in the lottery with obvious talent to choose from while others get lottery (late lottery) picks during years where the talent is not obvious. I think cho fell in the latter. I would love to have kept cho and gotten rid of cliff.

[Vanderbilt_Grad]

That's not a real option for this team though.

And why is that? If any team is able to sustain a tank, it should be this team with the AS game this year

I don't think MJ is going to tank the year that the spotlight is on CLT for the ASG. I also don't think Silver would allow it.

I also don't think the FO can sell another tank to season ticket holders. This is not a market where the team can just ignore the fanbase / season ticket holders.

Also I really don't think Kupchak signed up to do a Hinkie style blow up and rebuild. And I don't think that's necessary because this team is much better than it's record indicates.

I agree that a tank is unlikely, and that Jordan probably has little stomach for doing that again. I also agree that the ASG, Kemba's free agency, and more will weigh into that.

But I'm also not really sure what Silver could do to single out the team, if the Hornets traded for a bunch of young guys and draft picks. As long as they didn't do the most shady stuff like not not playing their best players for phantom reasons, I would think that they would avoid fines and such. Could Silver move the ASG? Maybe, but I'm not convinced that such a move would be automatic.

The key things I see here are:
1. Charlotte is a small market team and the losses were brutal during the tank
2. Attendance is still bad during some weekday games
3. The business side has been much improved overall the past few years and tracks with winning (even if treadmill)
4. Kemba seems to like it here, and giving him a winning season will likely matter in his free agency.
5. If Kemba is traded, it will need to be for a package that's not going to be a tank one - would need win now guys included in the return or significant cap space so that winning free agents could potentially be signed.

[BeesWax]

I think a lot depends on what he hears when he gets on the phone with teams. If he can't move off the contracts we have without killing our future but can get some young prospects or picks for Kemba I can see his starting a rebuild next season. He likes the draft and has done fair at it during his career. If he can't get what he needs to make this team anything but a treadmill 10th seed type team I could see him swinging some moves that kick start a rebuild. Since we have never really tanked before because of signing Al we never saw if we could build a young core with Kemba and have it grow together. If he is smart, which I think he is, he will seriously look into building the team the right way and trying to redo the mistakes that picking for a coach has lead to.

[UNCNYC]

drafting is extremely difficult to do as far as getting good talent goes. and if we decide to give the gm's the benefit of the doubt and see if the players drafted stay healthy as well as stay together as a team during their duration there then it probably makes it look even worse. Some players start out well, get injured and then get bust label. Brandon Roy comes to recent memory, while other players get or demand to be traded. Some are also just stat stuffers.

[yosemiteben]

Since we have never really tanked before because of signing Al...

That 7 win season wasn't a tank?

[spaceballer]

It feels like a step backwards. In an era where teams are focused on analytics, Mitch is a dinosaur. If I'm recalling correctly, under him, the Lakers were one of the teams with the smallest presence at the Sloan Analytics Conference, where other teams sent much larger contingents due to more analytics personnel (even team owners like Cuban attended). And didn't LaMarcus Aldridge famously blasted Mitch's free agent pitch as being out of sync and lacking in analytics and details compared to the Spurs pitch? Mitch is like the exact opposite of the Houston guy considered for the job, who I thought would have been a better selection.

Regardless, he does bring experience to the job, so it will be interesting to see how he does with a much smaller market than LA. He seems to have an ability to put together multi-team trades.

[yosemiteben]

How'd that work out for Aldridge?

[Robot Rock]

Cho was brought in to be the analytics guy and he made one good draft pick in seven years. I'm fine with trying something else.

[Liver_Pooty]

Cho was brought in to be the analytics guy and he made one good draft pick in seven years. I'm fine with trying something else.

Agreed.

[spaceballer]

How'd that work out for Aldridge?

Probably better than if he had signed with the Lakers, given the way the Lakers tanked away. But the player's subsequent success or failure doesn't really have a bearing on the sales pitch of the GM and ability to close the deal. He also failed to get Dwight to re-sign despite the "Stay D12" billboards that were put up, though obviously there were many other factors that shaped that discussion beyond just Mitch's sales pitch. Of his most recent big FA targets, he struck out after a fullcourt press with Dwight and LMA (and Melo, for that matter), but landed Mozgov and Deng with huge overpays like Cho with Batum. Keep in mind that this was with the advantage of the LA market, something that he won't have with the smaller Charlotte market. Free agency may not be where he will shine.

I think his strength is in creating multi-team trade coalitions like the mega deal when he traded Bynum for Dwight and snagged Nash despite having few trade assets. He was also a genius to hire Byron Scott to tank hard to keep draft picks from conveying due to protections.

[BeesWax]

Since we have never really tanked before because of signing Al...

That 7 win season wasn't a tank?

No because to tank is a process not one bad year. Tanking is spending multiple years being bad to accumulate good young assets to rebuild your team. We suffered through what seemed to be the start or a tank then blew it up and became treadmill before we got to see if we could reap any rewards of a process.

[yosemiteben]

Since we have never really tanked before because of signing Al...

That 7 win season wasn't a tank?

No because to tank is a process not one bad year. Tanking is spending multiple years being bad to accumulate good young assets to rebuild your team. We suffered through what seemed to be the start or a tank then blew it up and became treadmill before we got to see if we could reap any rewards of a process.

I don't agree with that process vs. tank distinction, that seems pretty arbitrary to me. Even so, I don't think you can sell a multi year tank to the fanbase by arguing that the last one was too short.