Prospect Thread: James Wiseman

[DY_nasty]

My biggest problem with WIseman is 3 college games played. I'm pretty worried about drafting a guy based on high school tape from two years ago.

Yup. In a year of so many unknowns with the pandemic and it's impact on getting players in and the combine etc, the last thing he needed was to only play 3 college games.

Its a worry.

He's been working out with professional trainers before the NCAA even went formal with their decision. He hasn't been sitting around this whole time. Very few of this draft class are tbh.... the fact that this draft has been delayed so long and all of the uncertainty in general has led to guys putting in more work than normal.

A significant amount of players will look far better or plainly different than how they looked for their last team. In person workouts will be huge this time around.

[yosemiteben]

My biggest problem with WIseman is 3 college games played. I'm pretty worried about drafting a guy based on high school tape from two years ago.

Yup. In a year of so many unknowns with the pandemic and it's impact on getting players in and the combine etc, the last thing he needed was to only play 3 college games.

Its a worry.

He's been working out with professional trainers before the NCAA even went formal with their decision. He hasn't been sitting around this whole time. Very few of this draft class are tbh.... the fact that this draft has been delayed so long and all of the uncertainty in general has led to guys putting in more work than normal.

A significant amount of players will look far better or plainly different than how they looked for their last team. In person workouts will be huge this time around.

Yeah, I'm not saying he's been lazy and hasn't continued to work out, I just am not thrilled with the lack of game tape on him and that makes me real nervous.

[BigSlam]

Yup. In a year of so many unknowns with the pandemic and it's impact on getting players in and the combine etc, the last thing he needed was to only play 3 college games.

Its a worry.

He's been working out with professional trainers before the NCAA even went formal with their decision. He hasn't been sitting around this whole time. Very few of this draft class are tbh.... the fact that this draft has been delayed so long and all of the uncertainty in general has led to guys putting in more work than normal.

A significant amount of players will look far better or plainly different than how they looked for their last team. In person workouts will be huge this time around.

Yeah, I'm not saying he's been lazy and hasn't continued to work out, I just am not thrilled with the lack of game tape on him and that makes me real nervous.

This was also my point.

I don’t think he’s been dogging it since he opted out of college, but being a workout warrior and dominating actual games gives me different levels of warm and fuzzies.


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[Braggins]

My biggest problem with WIseman is 3 college games played. I'm pretty worried about drafting a guy based on high school tape from two years ago.

This is fair, but could also be a blessing in disguise. I kind of get the feeling that if he played a full college season hed 100% be going #1 overall. I'm skeptical he makes it to #3 as is tbh.

[LofJ]

I hope Wiseman purposefully blows his interview with the Warriors so he can stay closer to home. He can be Zo 2.0 for us, but this time we won't cheap out when it's time to pay him.

[DY_nasty]

I hope Wiseman purposefully blows his interview with the Warriors so he can stay closer to home. He can be Zo 2.0 for us, but this time we won't cheap out when it's time to pay him.

Warriors are trading the pick no matter what

We're screwed because both GS and Minnesota are going to be leveraging their picks - we're competing against most of the league between them and their potential trade partners.

I honestly don't see a way we land Wiseman. Easily our best fit and the best player unless you overthink it.

[LofJ]

I hope Wiseman purposefully blows his interview with the Warriors so he can stay closer to home. He can be Zo 2.0 for us, but this time we won't cheap out when it's time to pay him.

Warriors are trading the pick no matter what

We're screwed because both GS and Minnesota are going to be leveraging their picks - we're competing against most of the league between them and their potential trade partners.

I honestly don't see a way we land Wiseman. Easily our best fit and the best player unless you overthink it.

The Wolves and the Warriors both potentially trading their picks make things a lot more complicated. But given the demand league wide for playmaking/scoring wings I don't think it's out of the question that Wiseman could be there at 3. The 2014 draft is a good example, two scoring wings were drafted ahead of the big with question marks. There's no question now who turned out to be the best of the 3.

[wilson115]

There's a chance the Warriors take Edwards. This came out in the SF Chronicle last week:



But this assumes they keep the pick instead of trading for a veteran. Which probably involves shipping out Wiggins's contract. Still, the thought of Edwards developing with the Warriors organization sounds appealing.

[Soul Rebel]

It's hard to base off of 3 NCAA games, but if Wiseman and Ayton were in this draft together and Ayton had only played 3 games at Arizona, would the same peripheral question marks and/or apprehensive thoughts be tossed around?

Ayton has turned in a 16/10 rookie season and followed it with an 18/11 season this past shortened year. I think adding an Ayton-type 5 next to PJ is our best option.

[DY_nasty]

It's hard to base off of 3 NCAA games, but if Wiseman and Ayton were in this draft together and Ayton had only played 3 games at Arizona, would the same peripheral question marks and/or apprehensive thoughts be tossed around?

Ayton has turned in a 16/10 rookie season and followed it with an 18/11 season this past shortened year. I think adding an Ayton-type 5 next to PJ is our best option.

They don't have that much in common at all imo

ayton doesn't even like basketball. dude had questions about his work ethic since before his season started and -big shock- he can't even stay on floor, has zero motor the majority of the time, gets suspended for stupid stuff, etc. if the situations were flipped, people would say with certainty that ayton would not be properly preparing for the draft with everything that's going on right now

not to prop up wiseman as a workout junkie in the time off, but he's never had the questions asked about him that ayton has

[Vanderbilt_Grad]

Wiseman is a guy you add to a team that has great scoring.

Charlotte needs interior defense, but it needs reliable offense more.

[Braggins]

Wiseman is a guy you add to a team that has great scoring.

Charlotte needs interior defense, but it needs reliable offense more.

I don't think they are in a position to be worrying about specific needs at this point. The team just needs talent and this draft honestly kind of sucks. If the highest impact player available is a defensive guy I think you just take him.

[MasterIchiro]

Why not just sign WCS for season tickets and use the pick on other talent?

[Braggins]

Why not just sign WCS for season tickets and use the pick on other talent?

Why draft Edwards or Toppin when we could just sign Dion Waiters or Derrick Williams and use the pick on other talent?

[MasterIchiro]

Why not just sign WCS for season tickets and use the pick on other talent?

Why draft Edwards or Toppin when we could just sign Dion Waiters or Derrick Williams and use the pick on other talent?

Why not pick 56 for Drummond?

[JMAC3]

Taking this from the Onyeka thread:

I don’t love taking a big at three, just not sure how much affect they have on winning- especially in the playoffs. Who was last the championship team who won on the back of a big? Shaq?

Jokic Being out-dueled by Donovan so far.

Towns elite talent hasn’t won.

Embiid can’t will the sixers past the second round and probably getting swept this year.

Davis wasn’t able to win before a great wing in lebron.

Dwight was best center for 10 years and made one finals appearance.

I will pretty much be doing a head to head evaluation with him and OO, but I doubt either crack my top 3 which will leave them out of consideration for our pick.

Both seem like starters in the league, but I also feel like we could grab a bargain center at top of the second who can start for us this year potentially.




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[SWedd523]

From the General Thread

The Lakers play pretty much the entire game with Mcgee or Howard at center. The Clippers play pretty much the entire game with Zubac or Harrell at center. The Bucks start Brook Lopez and play him significant minutes. The Raptors start ancient Marc Gasol and back him up with Ibaka. The Nuggets are built around Jokic. The Pacers play pretty much the entire game with Turner or Sabonis at center and plays them together at times. OKC start Steven Adams and play him big minutes. The Jazz are built around Gobert. Portland plays the entire game with Nurkic or Whiteside at center and play them together at times. Philadelphia is built around Embiid. Orlando plays the entire game with a traditional center. Dallas play Porzingas and Boban at center.

None of those guys typically step out and switch onto perimeter players in PnR coverage and thats just looking at the playoff teams. I don't know where people are getting the perception that playing like Houston is that common or that teams aren't playing centers that can't switch onto perimeter players regularly.

Also Wiseman is more mobile than most of the guys I mentioned.

Won't let me +1 for some reason.

Big guys aren't less valuable

There just aren't as many good ones anymore. Dominant bigs still have huge impact on the game, and even serviceable ones make life so much easier for perimeter players.

The demand for quality bigs is every big as high as it used to be

I’m really not understanding the narrative that bigs aren’t important in today’s NBA.

If that was the case, why have most Charlotte fans been screaming for rim/paint protection and rebounding and for someone to stop opposing bigs from destroying us.

And guys like Jarrett Allan and Jaxson Hayes aren’t in the same model as bigs like DeMarcus Cousins and Jahill Okafor. They are nimble, agile, mobile and defend with their feet while playing above the rim.



Wiseman is a modern big who can play both ways and has all the physical characteristics you need in a modern big.


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I really don't understand the issue with Wiseman. His negative is... the lack of game tape?

Watch on YouTube

Got it, only three games and none against high level comp. But what is more important are the skills and foundations he showed.

-Great form on his FT
-Fantastic hands, Hand/Eye Coordination, and body control for a guy his size
-Seals well on rim runs
-Catches lobs from all over the place in a number of situations
-Positions and boxes out well
-Ran the fast break and finished
-Ran the fast break as a dribbler and found the open man for a three
-Quick second jump for blocks
-Saw a shimmy post move, a low block seal for a easy bucket, and a step out jumper from the block
-Changed directions with speed to contest a guard dribble drive
-Most importantly: already has good muscle definition with plenty of room to grow, and despite his size, he isn't a lumbering big.

I picture Devonte surrounded by guys like Wiseman, PJ, and Bridges and salivate at the thought of high tempo lob city with big time athletes running and jumping all over the place

[Braggins]

From the General Thread

Won't let me +1 for some reason.

Big guys aren't less valuable

There just aren't as many good ones anymore. Dominant bigs still have huge impact on the game, and even serviceable ones make life so much easier for perimeter players.

The demand for quality bigs is every big as high as it used to be

I’m really not understanding the narrative that bigs aren’t important in today’s NBA.

If that was the case, why have most Charlotte fans been screaming for rim/paint protection and rebounding and for someone to stop opposing bigs from destroying us.

And guys like Jarrett Allan and Jaxson Hayes aren’t in the same model as bigs like DeMarcus Cousins and Jahill Okafor. They are nimble, agile, mobile and defend with their feet while playing above the rim.



Wiseman is a modern big who can play both ways and has all the physical characteristics you need in a modern big.


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I really don't understand the issue with Wiseman. His negative is... the lack of game tape?

Watch on YouTube

Got it, only three games and none against high level comp. But what is more important are the skills and foundations he showed.

-Great form on his FT
-Fantastic hands, Hand/Eye Coordination, and body control for a guy his size
-Seals well on rim runs
-Catches lobs from all over the place in a number of situations
-Positions and boxes out well
-Ran the fast break and finished
-Ran the fast break as a dribbler and found the open man for a three
-Quick second jump for blocks
-Saw a shimmy post move, a low block seal for a easy bucket, and a step out jumper from the block
-Changed directions with speed to contest a guard dribble drive
-Most importantly: already has good muscle definition with plenty of room to grow, and despite his size, he isn't a lumbering big.

I picture Devonte surrounded by guys like Wiseman, PJ, and Bridges and salivate at the thought of high tempo lob city with big time athletes running and jumping all over the place

The former Draft Express guy who did his interview and tape breakdown for ESPN continually mentioned that he seemed to improve a lot in between his last season of high school and the start of his NCAA season. He also seemed intelligent and eager to improve in his interview. Apparently he learned to speak Mandarin at his prep school.

Willingness and ability to improve is one of the most important traits for any prospect. There wasn't enough game action at Memphis to know for sure how real his improvement was, but there is some evidence he has the ability to improve and he seems pretty smart.

I think I like Wiseman or Okongwu if they stay at 3 and one of them is available. Im liking Ball and Edwards less and less the more I look into it and if the centers aren't available at 3, or they just don't believe in either one of them, I think Id rather them try to trade back and pick up someone like Hayes or Haliburton than take Ball or Edwards. This draft seems almost impossible to predict at this point, though, so I wouldn't be surprised at all if Ball and Edwards both get drafted later than people are currently expecting.

[James Gatz]

I'm low on Wiseman compared to the other top prospects. When I thought we were picking at 8 I would have been okay with it. Here are some of my concerns.

1) Rebounding - A lot of people are saying that it would be great to have a top notch rebounder next to PJ. This is true, but to this point Wiseman has not demonstrated this ability. Given his physical tools he should be dominate on the glass, especially at lower levels.

This from the athletic:
https://theathletic.com/1802983/2020/05/08/2020-nba-draft-a-word-of-warning-on-james-wiseman/

The concerning plays might be easy to dismiss if Wiseman was an outright killer in high school. Instead, he was far less productive on the Nike EYBL circuit than, say, Sacramento Kings’ big man Marvin Bagley.

• Bagley’s 2017 EYBL stats: 15 games played, 25.8 points per game, 14.9 boards, 3.1 blocks, 54.6 percent from the field.

• Wiseman’s 2018 Nike EYBL stats: 16 games played, 15.0 points per game, 6.8 boards, 1.8 blocks, 48.7 percent from the field.

Ayton for the record was at 11 rpg, albeit in only 6 games played.

Wiseman also only rebound 10.6 boards in college. Two of those games were against South Carolina State and UIC. Both teams that had no one with the size or physical tools in the same league as Wiseman.

2) Limited College Sample Size - I went back over the past 10 years of drafts and the situation where a top 5 pick played so few games is somewhat unprecedented. Examples really only include Garland and Kyrie. It's a big risk to take someone with so little available tape with the 3rd pick. So much so it's almost never been done.

Factor the limited college games with his less than dominate high school tape makes me dubious of his ability to be one of the best players in the draft.

3) Limited Offensive Potential - Wiseman has never showed the ability to consistently hit 3s. He shoots 3s the same way Mo Bamba was said to a 3 pt shooter, hypothetical. He also has never shown much ability to pass the ball. If he is to a hub of the offense .3 apg in college and .7 apg in EYBL will not cut it. I see his role as PnR dive man, which has it uses as his catch radius and vertical athleticism will greatly benefit him.

[BigSlam]

I'm low on Wiseman compared to the other top prospects. When I thought we were picking at 8 I would have been okay with it. Here are some of my concerns.

1) Rebounding - A lot of people are saying that it would be great to have a top notch rebounder next to PJ. This is true, but to this point Wiseman has not demonstrated this ability. Given his physical tools he should be dominate on the glass, especially at lower levels.

This from the athletic:
https://theathletic.com/1802983/2020/05/08/2020-nba-draft-a-word-of-warning-on-james-wiseman/

The concerning plays might be easy to dismiss if Wiseman was an outright killer in high school. Instead, he was far less productive on the Nike EYBL circuit than, say, Sacramento Kings’ big man Marvin Bagley.

• Bagley’s 2017 EYBL stats: 15 games played, 25.8 points per game, 14.9 boards, 3.1 blocks, 54.6 percent from the field.

• Wiseman’s 2018 Nike EYBL stats: 16 games played, 15.0 points per game, 6.8 boards, 1.8 blocks, 48.7 percent from the field.

Ayton for the record was at 11 rpg, albeit in only 6 games played.

Wiseman also only rebound 10.6 boards in college. Two of those games were against South Carolina State and UIC. Both teams that had no one with the size or physical tools in the same league as Wiseman.

2) Limited College Sample Size - I went back over the past 10 years of drafts and the situation where a top 5 pick played so few games is somewhat unprecedented. Examples really only include Garland and Kyrie. It's a big risk to take someone with so little available tape with the 3rd pick. So much so it's almost never been done.

Factor the limited college games with his less than dominate high school tape makes me dubious of his ability to be one of the best players in the draft.

3) Limited Offensive Potential - Wiseman has never showed the ability to consistently hit 3s. He shoots 3s the same way Mo Bamba was said to a 3 pt shooter, hypothetical. He also has never shown much ability to pass the ball. If he is to a hub of the offense .3 apg in college and .7 apg in EYBL will not cut it. I see his role as PnR dive man, which has it uses as his catch radius and vertical athleticism will greatly benefit him.

I think these are all really valid concerns and the hesitation I have as well - although I do think his rebounding will be fine.

The total lack of college experience is a huge red flag, although thats no different than international players - including Ball.


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