Grade the deadline

[SWedd523]

I give it a solid D, but really it's an incomplete.


Pros

1. Best thing to happen is the opening of 30 minutes of PT for Mark and Nick. I'm sure Cliff will do some dumb **** to really make sure those youngsters know their place or whatever, but I assume we'll get extended looks at both guys.

2. They got something for Mase and McD instead of letting them expire for nothing.

Cons

1. Didn't trade Oubre for literally anything. This either means they plan to re-sign him or they're going to let him walk for nothing. I have to think they could've gotten a 202X second and a contract for him.

2. Compensation seems light for Mase. Maybe it has something to do with them not finalizing any deals until after all the other teams? No idea, but worse players returned more.

3. No Terry trade, no Gordo trade = another year of rudderless team kicking the can down the road hoping for... who knows.

4. Most resoundingly, I don't get the notion that the FO and coaching staff are on the same page with the situation the team is in. It truly seems like they think the current core is a top 5 team when reality is staring them in the face. Mitch fires Borrego because he doesn't play the young guys, hired a coach notorious for not playing young guys. Young guys still don't play much. Coach thinks they're a playoff caliber team despite being a bottom 4 team in the league. GM trades both an old guy AND a young prospect at the deadline for basically nothing. No vet guys coming in for leadership and no young guys to take a flier on.

Fanbase clearly apathetic and getting worse, FO off puff puff passing somewhere with no indication what their plan is moving forward.

[JMAC3]

We are probably going to have 4 top 40 picks in the draft.

Our pick, Nuggets pick, our 2nd and Utah 2nd (currently 42, but they traded away three rotation guys)

[wilson115]

22nd worst defensive team last season and passed on Eason. 25th worst defense right now and passed on Thybulle. No excuses at this point.

Leaving this here.

Read on Twitter

[wilson115]

Gave a C because I saw I'd be the 7th poster to give that grade and 7's my lucky number. Still scratching my head over this one.

[yosemiteben]

I'm kinda surprised at these grades. I've seen so much talk about our clueless FO being in win now mode gunning for the playoffs. Is that not serious talk? Because it feels like our FO basically did what everyone has wanted us to do philosophically. We didn't take on new money or give up draft capital to try to win now. We leveraged expiring deals that had no bird rights for draft capital.

Feels like the general sentiment on here was Mason was complete trash that should be cut until about a month ago, and now we're mad he didn't get a better return?

Seems like this deadline was very far away from what most people were projecting as what we'd do and our worst case scenario.

[JMAC3]

I'm kinda surprised at these grades. I've seen so much talk about our clueless FO being in win now mode gunning for the playoffs. Is that not serious talk? Because it feels like our FO basically did what everyone has wanted us to do philosophically. We didn't take on new money or give up draft capital to try to win now. We leveraged expiring deals that had no bird rights for draft capital.

Feels like the general sentiment on here was Mason was complete trash that should be cut until about a month ago, and now we're mad he didn't get a better return?

Seems like this deadline was very far away from what most people were projecting as what we'd do and our worst case scenario.

Basically, everyone gets their hopes up with mock trades. It happens. Then reality sets in and you realize that is probably the best we could do.

[luciano-davidwesley]

Underwhelming but the moves themselves aren't bad. Would've loved more action and actual value coming back from any of Gordon/Terry/Plumlee/Oubre, but the Plumlee trade is fine, and the Jalen trade makes sense if he was bolting in FA.

Mitch gets a C- for not really doing much but not **** anything up either

The problem is Mitch never actually does much.... Except sign mediocre vets like Hayward and Rozier to long term contracts that hamper our flexibility.

HM Mozgov and Deng et al

[luciano-davidwesley]

Alright, I think I have somewhat thought about this enough.

McDaniels trade: B-, If we would have gotten Thybulle it would be B+. Getting our own pick back is nice though. I assume we will hear about a McDaniels extension he wouldn't sign in the coming weeks. If he wanted 12-15 million like some people are speculating I am glad to get the top 35 pick.

Plumlee trade: C-, to only get 1 2nd rounder 5 years from now is pretty bad. Only thing worse would of been keeping Plumlee. At least this opens minutes for Mark to start and get 30 per night. Also, at least we didn't take back salary for next year as part of the deal. Feels like best we could of done here is 2 2nds though.

Not trading Oubre: C, not sweating this one. He is hurt, most I think we would of gotten based on seeing other deals would of been a second or 2 and we might of have to take back salary. Him saying he wants to stay in Charlotte also makes me think maybe he signs cheaper than expected and we could maybe trade him down the road.

Not trade Rozier: C-, not great but based on circumstances I don't think we had a ton of options.
Not trading Hayward- Incomplete, no way that was happening
Not trading PJ- B, Happy to still have him around.

Overall grade given that not many firsts were moved at the deadline: I will say I give Mitch a C. He didn't blow me away, but he also didn't make any trade that hurts us long term in my opinion.

Fairly reasonable summary. Only getting a likely late, long-term second for a career-best Plumlee deserves a D IMO though.

[luciano-davidwesley]

22nd worst defensive team last season and passed on Eason. 25th worst defense right now and passed on Thybulle. No excuses at this point.

Cody Martin is signed for next couple of seasons to fill the defensive 2 guard/3 man spot and he shoots better then either of those guys. If he looks to be healthy next year (and hopefully they would know better then we do) we are probably better off with the 34th pick and some futures.

No harm in having both Martin and Thybulle, especially if McDaniels is traded. Good defensive wings are always great to have.

[luciano-davidwesley]

Giving it a solid D

The return for McDaniels was OK/fairly underwhelming considering he is a long, young solid two-way rotation player with potential. We gave up a 2024 NYK 2nd too. C

The return for Plumlee was very light, verging on nothing AND we took on an extra approx $1million in prorata salary this year. D

Kupchak negotiated the Rozier and Hayward deals and therefore it's still his fault they weren't considered worthy of trading for by other teams.

Many at the time on here were opposed to both deals. The fact he couldn't move the problems he created does not abscond him from the blame of him creating said problems (and the Batum stretch, just in case you forgot haha). D

The only bright spots are we got some minor assets back, the kids should get more burn and it should help the 2023 tank slightly.

I'm looking forward to the two chuckers in the backcourt scoring combined 50 points a game on 32% shooting for the rest of the season whist allowing the layup line on the other end.

[JDR720]

Overall on the 2nd rounders:

In: 2023 our own pick + 2 2028 picks
Out: 2024 NYK pick.

[JMAC3]

A lof of McDaniels love after averaging 10 ppg this year. I don't consider him a good shooter while being a career 34% from 3, 32% this year on real volume. I don't think he was anything special on defense either.

I will miss his grab and go skills and his fall away 2 point shot in the paint.

[amcoolio]

For me keeping Rozier automatically drags this down to a D. Even if they take back a worse player at a shorter contract, that would have been the right thing to do. Terry just doesn't fit with their franchise player and has a ridiculous 3 years left after this one. Really wish we had Thybulle at the 2 right now. Mitch said "no thanks"

[yosemiteben]

I particularly don't understand the logic of saying we should have dumped Terry for lesser value. He's not expiring so it's not like we lost out on a chance to capitalize on him. It does not appear that we're at risk of winning too many games with him this year so pro tanking people shouldn't care. His contract will only become more attractive as the cap goes up next year and his deal gets shorter. He has had an awful year this year so his value is probably deflated.

Why was not moving him at this deadline some major problem?

[GoBobs]

my grade is meh.. so pretty much a C

McDaniels seems like a good guy, I wish him well. He is an okay help defender but a terrible 1v1 defender, doesn't move his feet on the edge and isn't strong in the post. I didn't want to resign him and while I would have liked to get a first, getting our own second back seems ok in a year it is going to be a high 2nd.

Plumlee has been really good this year and he deserved to return more. I hope that deal was made because he prefered to go to the clippers. If he would have rather stayed I would have kept him and even considered resigning him next year. We don't have any other centers on the roster that are physically ready to battle in the post.

Keeping Oubre if fine. If he is reasonable I would resign him. If he is expensive, I am fine letting him walk. Not a difference maker right now but if he improves his 3pt shot by just a little bit he becomes a real weapon. He is closer to being a good player than McDaniels.

Keeping Hayward just makes sense. We are going to get the best return in a year where he doesn't get injured. Might as well see if that turns out to be next year. He might also be easier to move when he is an expiring contract or at least useful in a bigger deal as an expiring contract. If we want to bounce back next year and push for the playoffs he may be useful on the court. No reason to sell low at the moment.

Keeping Terry is also fine. No better free agents are walking through the door if we got his money off the books. His contract is going to look better and better as the cap goes up. Again if we want to bounce back next year we need some vets. Teams that are just all super young guys don't really win.

[Diop]

im assuming no one wanted our junk. Roziers contract seemed to expensive, especially as we wanted quality in return, Hayward too injured.

We ditched the players who definitely werent part of our future for the best Mitch could get i guess.

i would have preferred Thybulle, I know we want Thor to be the defensive wing off the bench, but can you have too much defense?
Thybulle also could get the confidence to shoot the open 3 eventually.

so i agree, meh. C

[luciano-davidwesley]

my grade is meh.. so pretty much a C

McDaniels seems like a good guy, I wish him well. He is an okay help defender but a terrible 1v1 defender, doesn't move his feet on the edge and isn't strong in the post.

Plumlee has been really good this year and he deserved to return more. I hope that deal was made because he prefered to go to the clippers. If he would have rather stayed I would have kept him and even considered resigning him next year. We don't have any other centers on the roster that are physically ready to battle in the post.

Keeping Oubre if fine. If he is reasonable I would resign him. If he is expensive, I am fine letting him walk. Not a difference maker right now but if he improves his 3pt shot by just a little bit he becomes a real weapon. He is closer to being a good player than McDaniels.

Keeping Hayward just makes sense. We are going to get the best return in a year where he doesn't get injured. Might as well see if that turns out to be next year. He might also be easier to move when he is an expiring contract or at least useful in a bigger deal as an expiring contract. If we want to bounce back next year and push for the playoffs he may be useful on the court. No reason to sell low at the moment.

Keeping Terry is also fine. No better free agents are walking through the door if we got his money off the books. His contract is going to look better and better as the cap goes up. Again if we want to bounce back next year we need some vets. Teams that are just all super young guys don't really win.

I disagree with the underlined points above. The eye test tells me McD would have one of the best opponent FG% on the team like PJ. Opposition players regularly struggle to score over him when he contests. I don't see him on ice skates like Lamelo even if he isn't the stongest guy going around in the post.

Oubre is nothing but a streak shooter and theres absolutely no upside in him. His game is flawed and his BBIQ is awful. His shot is not going to improve from here. McD is so much better than him at everything other than shooting, where it is pretty much a wash but Oubre is just far more open to chucking (as he is not a smart player).

I'd rather have cap space that we can trade for bad deals and picks than Rozier. He's a midget 2-guard chucker that doesn't play defense. His demand or lack thereof at the deadline tells you all you need to know about him. Good add/resign Mitch. Awful fit next to Lamelo too.

[Braggins]

If passing on Thybulle was a financial decision then that is part of the opportunity cost of not trading Rozier. Honestly, if money was the holdup I would have traded Rozier in a pure salary dump to open up the possibility of resigning Thybulle. I'm guessing they probably could have gotten salary relief and multiple 2nds for Rozier at the very least. Worst case scenario they probably could have had the same amount of total seconds, possibly more, and added Thybulle with plenty of flexibility to resign him (pretty sure hes restricted) by moving Rozier. Maybe then they flip some of those 2nds to get Bones Hyland to try out as a cost controlled Rozier replacement.

- LaMelo/Martin/Miles/PJ/Mark
- Bones/Thybulle/Hayward/Thor/Richards
- Maledon/McGowens/Kai

I would prefer that outcome over what they did and it doesn't take hardly any speculation to think they could have done this. I don't even have much confident in Bones, but you don't have to pay him for a couple more years and you retain cap flexibility (and possibly get more 2nds) with the only opportunity cost being that maybe you could get more directly in a trade for Rozier later down the line. I'm honestly not confident Roziers value is going to increase from here and think going in another direction had clear upside and more flexibility.

[Diop]

the fact that Bones only got 2 second round picks, shows its not a given you will get decent value in return.

[Diop]

im thinking they didnt see Thybulle as a long term fit. "we have enough defensive youths already"

that young Thor player, he can play the defense!