Don't Be Hurtin' Lin - The Jeremy Lin Thread 2

[tonman]

To be fair for evaluating Lin's performance, you need to see what impact he could have had when he played 25+ mins. Please check the following link to confirm my words. By combining offense and defense in last two games, when Lin was on court, the team performance NetRtg is third best +16.8. When he was off court, the team performance is the worst -19. By looking at the AL and Kamba's numbers, I would have understated why Cliff might bench AL and Kemba in the final quarter of some close games. The team defense -> DefRtg was #1 (87.8) when Lin was on the court and it is the worst (131.5) he was off the court.

http://stats.nba.com/team/#!/1610612766/onoffcourt/advanced/?sort=NET_RATING&dir=1&Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&LastNGames=2

well, when lin was not playing well, and coach kept playing him over 25+ minutes, the numbers could be dramatically different...

well when ANYONE is not playing well and playing 25+ minutes, their numbers could be not so good also. have you seen Harden's numbers?

[ChokeFasncists]

One thing I'll say to Lin fans (if you haven't already figured this out) - Kemba has paved the way for Lin in terms of building up toleration for inefficiency. I'm not a huge Kemba fan (just somewhere between a small and medium one), yet it doesn't phase me at all to see Kemba have a night of 3 / 13 from the field.

If LA was Lin getting thrown to the wolves, CHA is Lin getting thrown to a flock of sleeping sheep.

~lol~
That's great, Lin just needs to play thru it. He is definitely more of a high percentage guy. I'd rather he shoot a low percentage than to hesitate.

[ChokeFasncists]

Strange timing this article was posted. Has the writer been reading this board?

http://masterherald.com/jeremy-lin-would-rather-have-better-playing-time-than-win-an-nba-championship-as-a-bench-warmer/30999/

[13th Man]

Strange timing this article was posted. Has the writer been reading this board?

http://masterherald.com/jeremy-lin-would-rather-have-better-playing-time-than-win-an-nba-championship-as-a-bench-warmer/30999/

Not surprised. Lin fans do understand Lin and his train of thought more than people give us credit for

[Vae Victus]

Well duh... a bigger role is not only more professionally satisfying it's also a helluva lot more lucrative. Lin can go ring chasing when he gets older, right now during his prime he needs mins and opportunities to shine, get paid, and gain respect.

Interesting to see he's getting the starting nod tonight. Starting strong it seems, hopefully it's a sign of more positive things to come.

Edit: This shouldnt be a surprise at all. This isn't a Jeremy Lin character thing, this is a common sense EVERY player would make that choice thing.

[lin is ok]

Well duh... a bigger role is not only more professionally satisfying it's also a helluva lot more lucrative. Lin can go ring chasing when he gets older, right now during his prime he needs mins and opportunities to shine, get paid, and gain respect.

Interesting to see he's getting the starting nod tonight. Starting strong it seems, hopefully it's a sign of more positive things to come.

Edit: This shouldnt be a surprise at all. This isn't a Jeremy Lin character thing, this is a common sense EVERY player would make that choice thing.

i am really happy that he filled that defensive starting role quite well today.

[gafun]

When Hornets had a big lead, it looks like Cliff wants to insert Brain - to train such a very unproductive PG on the cost of Lin offensive performance . I feel bad for Lin and for many Hornets fans too, especially for the fans who had a sign - "bench force one". As a Lin fan, I am kind of getting used to it after 12 games.


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[bws94]

Roberts is Lin's backup. He needs real-game playing time sometimes in case Lin misses games. There is no better team to put Roberts in against than the 76ers especially when Lin is placed with the starters. He needed to get some practice running the 2nd unit.

[13th Man]

Roberts is Lin's backup. He needs real-game playing time sometimes in case Lin misses games. There is no better team to put Roberts in against than the 76ers especially when Lin is placed with the starters. He needed to get some practice running the 2nd unit.

Yep, we were short-manned today so Clifford was experimenting with Lin starting. Roberts needs some burn as well from time to time so no better time than during a blowout. I don't feel bad for Lin, he just needs to find his role on this team and try to create chemistry with his unit. He doesn't have a Tyson Chandler or Ed Davis to PnR with so he's going to have to figure it out with the teammates that he's got on the floor.

Back to the minutes issue, I'd still like to see him come in a bit earlier like at the 4 or 5 minute mark. This way he gets more time as PG and even if he doesn't close out the half or the game, he'd have more meaningful minutes. When I gripe about him coming in late, it's not to satisfy a Lin agenda. It's about making the most efficient use of player's times on the court and distributing the minutes accordingly.

The way that Lin has played thus far and his lacklustre chemistry with the starters, I am not yet convinced that he should be closing out games when Lamb available and especially when MKG comes back. The point I'm trying to make is that Clifford should try giving him more conventional backup pg substitution patterns, it's worth a try since he's tried practically everything else but this. That is, have him come in at 5:00 mark then leave at the 5 or 6 min mark of the 2nd and 4th. This way if he doesn't close out the half or game, he'd still get 22-24 mins at least. It's looking to me as though Lin's best fit on this team is running the 2nd unit as a pg rather than spend half his time as a SG or mixed in with the starters where he's merely a floor spacer. I understand that Clifford is trying to accommodate Lin by stretching him into various roles, but sometimes the simplest is the most effective. How about keep it simple and play him as a backup pg, nothing creative....

[bws94]

Roberts is Lin's backup. He needs real-game playing time sometimes in case Lin misses games. There is no better team to put Roberts in against than the 76ers especially when Lin is placed with the starters. He needed to get some practice running the 2nd unit.

Yep, we were short-manned today so Clifford was experimenting with Lin starting. Roberts needs some burn as well from time to time so no better time than during a blowout. I don't feel bad for Lin, he just needs to find his role on this team and try to create chemistry with his unit. He doesn't have a Tyson Chandler or Ed Davis to PnR with so he's going to have to figure it out with the teammates that he's got on the floor.

Back to the minutes issue, I'd still like to see him come in a bit earlier like at the 4 or 5 minute mark. This way he gets more time as PG and even if he doesn't close out the half or the game, he'd have more meaningful minutes. When I gripe about him coming in late, it's not to satisfy a Lin agenda. It's about making the most efficient use of player's times on the court and distributing the minutes accordingly.

The way that Lin has played thus far and his chemistry with the starters, I am not yet convinced that he should be closing out games with Lamb available and especially when MKG comes back. The point I'm trying to make is that Clifford should try giving him more conventional backup pg substitution patterns, it's worth a try since he's tried practically everything else but this. That is, have him come in at 5:00 mark then leave at the 5 or 6 min mark of the 2nd and 4th. This way if he doesn't close out the half or game, he'd still get 22-24 mins at least. It's looking to me as though Lin's best fit on this team is running the 2nd unit as a pg rather than spend half his time as a SG or mixed in with the starters where he's merely a floor spacer.

He's got big men, so they'll have to provide screens whether it is Hawes, Zeller (who can sort of pick and drive towards the basket if not roll) or at times Kaminsky. But what I'm beginning to see, and this is an aspect of his game underutilized in the past, is that if LIn cuts, he can work with Al or maybe another player, in give and goes. Batum is also finding Lin when he cuts. Lin finally has thrown a few football passes to Batum and if Lamb or Batum or a big man can run out, that's one of his talents that will be used. Lin is getting chemistry with Lamb not only in kicking it out to him and finding him for good looks to shoot, but for lobs. Lin can also do that with Batum. Lin and MW are getting chemistry too and sometimes Cliff puts Marvin in the 2nd unit with Lin.

Lin can find Kaminsky for open looks or under the basket looks. Lin has to get chemistry with both the 2nd unit he leads and a little more challenge first unit. Batum, no problem. Al looks good for Lin too. The biggest challenge is Kemba.

[bws94]

13th man have to disagree with you about closing. I think Lin should be the closer at least until MKG gets back and maybe even when MKG gets back. He has a lot of intangibles and tangibles that make him a big plus to have on the floor as a game closer. Cliff's minutes for him are strange, coming in so late in the 1Q and 3Q but as long as Lin gets used to it and playing all of the 4th or most of it and even the 2nd, then that's what he's conditioned to do to perform for his team.

I also think if you look at how Lin played in the 4Q with Batum in the Nets game and the 1Q in the 76er game, Lin played a good role with the starters. Since it won't be the only role he plays, he will be leading the 2nd unit, he's not being that much underutilized with the starters as long as he has his touches and some plays are geared towards him. Batum is good to facilitate those.

[Little General]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TJlJhUQGz8[/youtube]

[steady]

He's got big men, so they'll have to provide screens whether it is Hawes, Zeller (who can sort of pick and drive towards the basket if not roll) or at times Kaminsky. But what I'm beginning to see, and this is an aspect of his game underutilized in the past, is that if LIn cuts, he can work with Al or maybe another player, in give and goes. Batum is also finding Lin when he cuts. Lin finally has thrown a few football passes to Batum and if Lamb or Batum or a big man can run out, that's one of his talents that will be used. Lin is getting chemistry with Lamb not only in kicking it out to him and finding him for good looks to shoot, but for lobs. Lin can also do that with Batum. Lin and MW are getting chemistry too and sometimes Cliff puts Marvin in the 2nd unit with Lin.

Lin can find Kaminsky for open looks or under the basket looks. Lin has to get chemistry with both the 2nd unit he leads and a little more challenge first unit. Batum, no problem. Al looks good for Lin too. The biggest challenge is Kemba.

I know the cutting, right? It's almost shocking to see because he so infrequently did it before,

And yeah, he had some really nice sequences with Al in Sixers game. It was good to see.

[TTNN]

Roberts is Lin's backup. He needs real-game playing time sometimes in case Lin misses games. There is no better team to put Roberts in against than the 76ers especially when Lin is placed with the starters. He needed to get some practice running the 2nd unit.

Yep, we were short-manned today so Clifford was experimenting with Lin starting. Roberts needs some burn as well from time to time so no better time than during a blowout. I don't feel bad for Lin, he just needs to find his role on this team and try to create chemistry with his unit. He doesn't have a Tyson Chandler or Ed Davis to PnR with so he's going to have to figure it out with the teammates that he's got on the floor.

I don't get the logic here, so Robert as Lin's back up, need time to play in case Lin misses games, so Lin need to give up his time or ball handling to Robert even when he is not missing games. Then when does Lin to find his chemistry with his unit? Does Lin need to take over Kemba's ball handling role since he is Kemba's back up, and he need time to do that in case Kemba misses games?

How does Lin find his role when his role was pretty much fill the team's void? Even his back up PG role is readily taken away when the team is missing SG. It is not like he had his role, and when other people get injured, he will need to step up in addition to what he was doing, not only play his role, but also take a share what is missed.

No, what looks like is, when there is a need of a defending wing, Lin need to play that position and give up his backup PG position too. So to me, his role in this team is not cleared, he is readily asked to change his hat and give up his role whenever there is a need in other position. Looks to me, his role is a stop gap filler, who don't really has his own position, but need to play any other role well whenever is needed.

[TTNN]

When Hornets had a big lead, it looks like Cliff wants to insert Brain - to train such a very unproductive PG on the cost of Lin offensive performance . I feel bad for Lin and for many Hornets fans too, especially for the fans who had a sign - "bench force one". As a Lin fan, I am kind of getting used to it after 12 games.


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I'd hope coach play Hansbrough when Zeller is missing time, instead of shifting every one up and play Robert. That shift both Lin and Lamb to a weaker defensive position, and it is not like Robert himself is a defensive stopper. Play Robert/Lin/Lamb/Hawes together, that line up is horrible defensively, and insert Robert there also messed up the offense of that second unit too.

[TTNN]

I hope Lin rediscovers his outside shoot. For all this talk about how much work he's put in to improve his shot, he's shooting a career high rate based on attempts per 36 and yet he's shooting a near career low 3PT% of 28%.

yes, you nailed it. Whatever playtime he got he need to find his shot.

However, I'm worried about his conditioning, since he does use way more energy now on his defense, that had impact on his offense, what is shown is that he was not able to finish as good as he used to do at the rim, a lot of shot was short or too soft. Hopefully he could figure it out during coming week.

On the other hand, if coach not play him full time as SG, that would help too. So his defensive assignment would not be as hard if he play most PG time, and defending guys shorter than him.

[bws94]

TTNN, if you look at how much playing time Lin has vs. Roberts, Lin has plenty of opportunity to each game build chemistry with all of the roster in whatever combination there is. Lin also may be Batum's backup as well as Kemba's. Roberts doesn't play much so the limited time he is in, in real-game situations, Roberts needs time to run plays and try to run the 2nd unit. If Lin can't play for a game or a few games, he's Lin's backup.

Does Lin need time to take over Kemba's ballhandling? Not so much in that Lin has his own style of running an offense and he's more skilled at it than Roberts is. The plays run through Batum a lot too so Lin and Batum would run the offense if Kemba misses games. The first unit guys are used to Lin anyway, he plays with them at times during the games.

[fatlever]

3pt shooting

28% for the season
22% last 11 games
18% last 9 games
14 % last 5 games

Those are some Lance Stephenson type numbers.

[13th Man]

Roberts is Lin's backup. He needs real-game playing time sometimes in case Lin misses games. There is no better team to put Roberts in against than the 76ers especially when Lin is placed with the starters. He needed to get some practice running the 2nd unit.

Yep, we were short-manned today so Clifford was experimenting with Lin starting. Roberts needs some burn as well from time to time so no better time than during a blowout. I don't feel bad for Lin, he just needs to find his role on this team and try to create chemistry with his unit. He doesn't have a Tyson Chandler or Ed Davis to PnR with so he's going to have to figure it out with the teammates that he's got on the floor.

I don't get the logic here, so Robert as Lin's back up, need time to play in case Lin misses games, so Lin need to give up his time or ball handling to Robert even when he is not missing games. Then when does Lin to find his chemistry with his unit? Does Lin need to take over Kemba's ball handling role since he is Kemba's back up, and he need time to do that in case Kemba misses games?

How does Lin find his role when his role was pretty much fill the team's void? Even his back up PG role is readily taken away when the team is missing SG. It is not like he had his role, and when other people get injured, he will need to step up in addition to what he was doing, not only play his role, but also take a share what is missed.

No, what looks like is, when there is a need of a defending wing, Lin need to play that position and give up his backup PG position too. So to me, his role in this team is not cleared, he is readily asked to change his hat and give up his role whenever there is a need in other position. Looks to me, his role is a stop gap filler, who don't really has his own position, but need to play any other role well whenever is needed.

Roberts only played because Lin started in place of Hairston. When PJ returns, Lin will likely run the 2nd unit again. Guys deep down the bench still need playing time here and there, it's not a big deal.

As for Lin, his role is all over the place as intended by Clifford who sees him as a versatile player that could play the 1 or the 2 and with whomever when needed. I don't quite agree with this at this moment because he hasn't proven that type of effectiveness this season. He's not Manu or Jamal Crawford, I'd rather see him get settled into a steady role and get acclimated with the players around him. I'm not making excuses for Lin, just don't think he's that adaptive yet. Sometimes overcomplicating things or being too creative isn't the best solution. Keep it simple, let him play the conventional backup pg role imo.

[TTNN]

TTNN, if you look at how much playing time Lin has vs. Roberts, Lin has plenty of opportunity to each game build chemistry with all of the roster in whatever combination there is. Lin also may be Batum's backup as well as Kemba's. Roberts doesn't play much so the limited time he is in, in real-game situations, Roberts needs time to run plays and try to run the 2nd unit. If Lin can't play for a game or a few games, he's Lin's backup.

Does Lin need time to take over Kemba's ballhandling? Not so much in that Lin has his own style of running an offense and he's more skilled at it than Roberts is. The plays run through Batum a lot too so Lin and Batum would run the offense if Kemba misses games. The first unit guys are used to Lin anyway, he plays with them at times during the games.

I just don't buy your argument that Robert need in game practice time. That just make no sense. Robert is not the only player on team don't have much play time now, and Lin is not the only player who might miss games. Every one need in real-game situations, and winning is still the most important thing, it is not like Robert is a rookie that you need to develop him, come on.

And look at that situation, Robert/Lin/Lamb/Hawes, that's horrible defensive line up, from 1-3 are all undersized, and it is not like Robert is a great offensive player that could make it up in the offensive end. On the contrary, inserting Robert totally messed up the spacing and offensive flow, it is not garbage time yet for a 3rd line player to practice in game situation. I don't like the idea just because Lin could play some SG time, then you just move him to SG position. When a SG is missing, why not play 3rd line up SG in Daniel instead move your 2nd PG to SG and then play 3rd line PG? Daniel could shoot better and defend better than Robert. And you will not have a defensive disadvantage in PG position.

To be honest, I'd rather coach play Hansbrough in this case when PJ and Zeller were missing time, and Keep Lin/Lamb/Williams/Hawes line up intact. Hansbrough will give much better defense, rebounding, and pair with Hawes, there is minimal impact on the spacing. I do hope coach could trust Hansbrough more.