Barbeque Chicken: The Cody Zeller Thread - Pt 2

[Diop]

I expect Zeller to take over the starting job eventually this season, especially if he can hit jumpshots...which is basically the only reason Marvin is starting

I think they also like Marvin's veteran experiance with his passing, which he apparently did quite well in Utah

[BeesWax]

I expect Zeller to take over the starting job eventually this season, especially if he can hit jumpshots...which is basically the only reason Marvin is starting

I think Marvin starts all season unless injury or a trade occur. He is a superior player right now and has experience. Now the minute split should shift if Zeller becomes an effective offensive and defensive player night in and out.

What I would like to see is Zeller, Biz and Henderson in that second unit really getting up and down the court.

[mrknowitall215]

I expect Zeller to take over the starting job eventually this season, especially if he can hit jumpshots...which is basically the only reason Marvin is starting

I think they also like Marvin's veteran experiance with his passing, which he apparently did quite well in Utah

What passing? Zeller averaged the same amount of assist in 8 minutes less per game. I'll give Williams some credit though, he doesn't turn the ball over much at all, as Clifford has spoken on how much he make the simple play

[mrknowitall215]

I expect Zeller to take over the starting job eventually this season, especially if he can hit jumpshots...which is basically the only reason Marvin is starting

I think Marvin starts all season unless injury or a trade occur. He is a superior player right now and has experience. Now the minute split should shift if Zeller becomes an effective offensive and defensive player night in and out.

What I would like to see is Zeller, Biz and Henderson in that second unit really getting up and down the court.

The only thing Marvin Williams is 'superior' to Cody Zeller in is 3-point shooting. Zeller trumps him in every other attribute

I understand Clifford want his spacing, and since he's the coach & he know what he want on the floor I will try to respect that as long as Williams is a consistent threat from deep

[yosemiteben]

The only thing Marvin Williams is 'superior' to Cody Zeller in is 3-point shooting. Zeller trumps him in every other attribute

A quick look at their shot charts shows that this isn't true. Hell, Marvin's FG% around the rim was 10% higher than Zeller on the season. I know Zeller had a rough start to the season, but that doesn't negate the fact that he has a very limited offensive game.

Marvin:


Cody:

[BeesWax]

I expect Zeller to take over the starting job eventually this season, especially if he can hit jumpshots...which is basically the only reason Marvin is starting

I think Marvin starts all season unless injury or a trade occur. He is a superior player right now and has experience. Now the minute split should shift if Zeller becomes an effective offensive and defensive player night in and out.

What I would like to see is Zeller, Biz and Henderson in that second unit really getting up and down the court.

The only thing Marvin Williams is 'superior' to Cody Zeller in is 3-point shooting. Zeller trumps him in every other attribute

I understand Clifford want his spacing, and since he's the coach & he know what he want on the floor I will try to respect that as long as Williams is a consistent threat from deep

I guess you are right if you don't consider defense, feel for the game or efficiency part of the game you are right he doesn't do anything but shoot better.

[mrknowitall215]

I know Zeller had a rough start to the season, but that doesn't negate the fact that he has a very limited offensive game.

That rough start to the season negated everything. If Zeller had played for us the entire season the way he played after February he would've been a legitimate ROY candidate, and there wouldn't have been much question about who should be the starting PF

Post All-Star break Zeller averaged 8 points on 51% shooting and 5 rebounds in 18 minutes per game (per 36 - 16 points & 10 rebounds)

With that said, I feel like all we need is a PF that can average 10 points & 8 rebounds to be a top 4 seed in the Eastern Conference. I'm expecting 8 points & 5 rebounds per game out of Marvin Williams with poor interior defense & rebounding

[BeesWax]

I know Zeller had a rough start to the season, but that doesn't negate the fact that he has a very limited offensive game.

That rough start to the season negated everything. If Zeller had played for us the entire season the way he played after February he would've been a legitimate ROY candidate, and there wouldn't have been much question about who should be the starting PF

Post All-Star break Zeller averaged 8 points on 51% shooting and 5 rebounds in 18 minutes per game (per 36 - 16 points & 10 rebounds)

With that said, I feel like all we need is a PF that can average 10 points & 8 rebounds to be a top 4 seed in the Eastern Conference. I'm expecting 8 points & 5 rebounds per game out of Marvin Williams with poor interior defense & rebounding

If Zeller had played that way all season he would have broken in half or been buried under the court. He did what we needed in the second half but there was no way his body could take getting tossed like a rag doll for 36 minutes for 82 games. If he learns to shoot he could be a decent role player starter but right now off what we have seen he has a ways to go. I hope he has learned to shoot and can provide better minutes than last year without subjecting his body to the abuse he had to put it through to have a remote shot at scoring. His career will go much better if he doesn't have to only be the energy big off the bench.

The bad start doesn't negate everything because he never shot well last season.

[mrknowitall215]

I think Marvin starts all season unless injury or a trade occur. He is a superior player right now and has experience. Now the minute split should shift if Zeller becomes an effective offensive and defensive player night in and out.

What I would like to see is Zeller, Biz and Henderson in that second unit really getting up and down the court.

The only thing Marvin Williams is 'superior' to Cody Zeller in is 3-point shooting. Zeller trumps him in every other attribute

I understand Clifford want his spacing, and since he's the coach & he know what he want on the floor I will try to respect that as long as Williams is a consistent threat from deep

I guess you are right if you don't consider defense, feel for the game or efficiency part of the game you are right he doesn't do anything but shoot better.

I think Zeller is already a better defender than Williams, at least at the PF position, and should improve on every other aspect of his game now that he's acclimated to the pro game. Zeller likely won't ever even be a borderline All-Star caliber talent, but I think he could be serviceable

I don't care for Zeller having to be a 'stretch 4', but if he ever does develop that aspect of his game to efficiently shoot from midrange, without a doubt he'll be far & away better player than Williams

[yosemiteben]

I know Zeller had a rough start to the season, but that doesn't negate the fact that he has a very limited offensive game.

That rough start to the season negated everything.

Again, look at his shot chart. You see that long 2 point jumper from the left elbow where he shot 11% or the right elbow where he shot 17%? He wasn't able to hit those all season - he didn't turn that around half way through. He has no perimeter game and no mid-range game. He is just an average finisher around the rim for a big man, though he obviously has a knack for drawing fouls.

Marvin has a better perimeter game, midrange game, and surprisingly is a significantly better finisher around the rim.

ETA: I'm a Cody fan and think he has the potential to be a solid starter. I just don't think he is at that point yet.

[mrknowitall215]

I know Zeller had a rough start to the season, but that doesn't negate the fact that he has a very limited offensive game.

That rough start to the season negated everything.

Again, look at his shot chart. You see that long 2 point jumper from the left elbow where he shot 11% or the right elbow where he shot 17%? He wasn't able to hit those all season - he didn't turn that around half way through. He has no perimeter game and no mid-range game. He is just an average finisher around the rim for a big man, though he obviously has a knack for drawing fouls.

Marvin has a better perimeter game, midrange game, and surprisingly is a significantly better finisher around the rim.

ETA: I'm a Cody fan and think he has the potential to be a solid starter. I just don't think he is at that point yet.

I can't wait to see if Marvin Williams is nearly as effective as some of you think he'll be. If so, that'll be great and I'll eat the crow like a delicious steak, but if not, don't say I didn't tell you so...Zeller is a better player & fit, and the advanced numbers will back my notion within a few months into the season since we have to develop more than a sample size for anyone to be correct

[yosemiteben]

You could be right, and honestly I'd be fine with that because I have to say I'm a bigger Zeller fan than Marvin fan. However, IMO Zeller needs to find a midrange game if he wants to be a reliable starter in this league, especially given our starting lineup's deficiencies in perimeter and midrange shooting.

[Eoghan]

So it has come to Zeller vs Williams debates. Oh boy.

[Liver_Pooty]

So it has come to Zeller vs Williams debates. Oh boy.

Better than Felton vs Mcinnis debates, or Felton vs any starting PG debates.

[yosemiteben]

So it has come to Zeller vs Williams debates. Oh boy.

We all gave up on debating with you about Big Al.

[Liver_Pooty]

So it has come to Zeller vs Williams debates. Oh boy.

We all gave up on debating with you about Big Al.

Exactly. Maybe we should debate Jefferson vs Biyombo starting

Not a knock on Biyombo by any means, but BD stated that plenty last season.

[HornetJail]

Slightly off topic prediction : Neal plays about 3-4 really impressive games when Kemba is in a slump and we're going to witness someone seriously propose benching Kemba for Gary Neal.

[Liver_Pooty]

Slightly off topic prediction : Neal plays about 3-4 really impressive games when Kemba is in a slump and we're going to witness someone seriously propose benching Kemba for Gary Neal.

And that person should be banned.

[Eoghan]

So it has come to Zeller vs Williams debates. Oh boy.

We all gave up on debating with you about Big Al.

Exactly. Maybe we should debate Jefferson vs Biyombo starting

Not a knock on Biyombo by any means, but BD stated that plenty last season.

Hey, we played just as well in game 4 as we did the other 3.

[JDR720]

At 7-foot and 240 pounds, Hornets big man Cody Zeller doesn’t have the size to bang inside with true NBA centers, but he thinks he can beat them in other ways.

Hornets coach Steve Clifford plans to use the second-year player at backup center to spell starter Al Jefferson if the matchup calls for it. And Zeller believes he’ll be able to work around the competition rather than through it.

“If I can play defense against the other (center), it should create an offensive matchup for myself,” Zeller said this week at Hornets’ training camp at UNC-Asheville. “There are a lot of big 5s (centers) in this league that I’m quicker than, if I can defend them on one end and hopefully score on them on the other end. I’m just trying to become tougher to guard and create more mismatches.”

In his rookie season last year, Zeller played mostly at power forward as Jefferson and backup Bismack Biyombo shared the center position. Zeller will remain a power forward first behind starter Marvin Williams, but his skill combination fits what Jefferson and Biyombo lack.

Jefferson struggled last season on pick-and-roll defense, and Zeller may offer better defense against more agile big men. On the offensive end, Biyombo has never filled up the stat sheet while Zeller is adding to his cadre of post moves.

“Cody’s not a back-to-the-basket guy like myself,” Jefferson said. “But when he does play the 5 and get in position, when he does get the ball in the post, he’ll either know how to face up, bounce it and go to a jump hook or whatever move he decides to go to.”

Charlotte selected Zeller with the fourth overall pick in the 2013 draft with the hope he would be able to run the fastbreak as well as shoot from outside. The team had seen his range in workouts even if it wasn’t displayed at Indiana during his two years as the Hoosiers’ center.

But Zeller rarely tested his range last season, and he averaged 6 points and 4.3 rebounds per game while averaging 17.3 minutes.

Through the first 57 games of the season, Zeller shot 37.8 percent from the field. In the final 25 games of the season, though, he improved to 53.2 percent. That strong finish in the final third of the year helped him earn second-team NBA All-Rookie honors.

Zeller said the game slowed down for him and he was able to catch and shoot without thinking about it.

Clifford said when Zeller plays center, the Hornets will play more pick and rolls - and they he’ll have a quickness advantage.

Defensively, Zeller has spent the offseason working on his defensive technique. He plans to use his quickness to front opposing centers and keep them from getting the ball deep in the post.

This week he’s practiced against Jefferson, the kind of big, slower center he may face in live action to get the mismatch.

Luckily for Zeller, he won’t have to face a center with the kind of pump fakes Jefferson has.

“I don’t know if anyone will be able to match that. That’s his go-to,” Zeller said. “I’ve been around him for a year now and I went for his shot fake on the first play today. I still go for it.

Read more here: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2014/1 ... C8RGvldXng#storylink=cpy