The Steve Clifford Thread 2.0 - Off the Cliff we go

Snidely FC · Post #421 » by **Snidely FC** » Thu Mar 9, 2017 2:53 pm

Agreed, but still impressed by what Spoelstra gets out of his journeymen, castoffs, and youths. Having to play them makes him stretch as a coach.

Plus sadly Cliff's choice to not play Weber is Roberts.

Post #422 » by **JDR720** » Thu Mar 9, 2017 5:00 pm

Cliff is just a very stubborn coach, you obviously see it on his reluctance to bench rob / sess or try new things.

He plays favorites too. Which is irritating.

Braggins · Post #423 » by **Braggins** » Thu Mar 9, 2017 7:19 pm

Mystical Apples wrote:Clifford has cited GSW... as examples. Even their "small lineups" had cumulative length and size advantages against most opponents.

Here is the standing reach of Golden States "death lineup" from the past two season compared to some of our players (from draftexpress).

Steph Curry - 8'1" (Kemba - 7'7.5")
Klay Thompson - 8'7.5" (Lamb - 8'6")
Andre Iguodala - 8'9.5" (Batum - 8'8.75)
Harrison Barnes - 8'5.5" (MKG - 8'8.5")
Draymond Green - 8'9" (Marv - 9' / Frank - 9'1.5" / Cody - 8'10")

With Marv/Frank at center that lineup would have essentially the same cumulative length 1-5 as the Warriors, despite Kemba having a 5.5" disadvantage compared to the next least lengthiest player. We'd actually have more length 2-5 with any of the center options.

Hornet Mania · Post #424 » by **Hornet Mania** » Thu Mar 9, 2017 9:37 pm

JDR720 wrote:Cliff is just a very stubborn coach, you obviously see it on his reluctance to bench rob / sess or try new things.

He plays favorites too. Which is irritating.

It's what irritates me about Cliff most, by far.

It was the same way with Biz and Maxiell.Or leaving Al in a last-second defensive possession when we know damn well he's one of our worst defenders.

Mystical Apples · Post #425 » by **Mystical Apples** » Fri Mar 10, 2017 12:16 am

Braggins wrote:
Mystical Apples wrote:Clifford has cited GSW... as examples. Even their "small lineups" had cumulative length and size advantages against most opponents.

Here is the standing reach of Golden States "death lineup" from the past two season compared to some of our players (from draftexpress).

Steph Curry - 8'1" (Kemba - 7'7.5")
Klay Thompson - 8'7.5" (Lamb - 8'6")
Andre Iguodala - 8'9.5" (Batum - 8'8.75)
Harrison Barnes - 8'5.5" (MKG - 8'8.5")
Draymond Green - 8'9" (Marv - 9' / Frank - 9'1.5" / Cody - 8'10")

With Marv/Frank at center that lineup would have essentially the same cumulative length 1-5 as the Warriors, despite Kemba having a 5.5" disadvantage compared to the next least lengthiest player. We'd actually have more length 2-5 with any of the center options.

You removed "size" which I included for a reason (and Miami), specifically as it pertains to 1-3 and the ability to switch up and down. Kemba isn't gonna defend 2's, Lamb isn't gonna defend large 3's and 4's, Frank and Cody wont consistently stick 2's, and no one possess Draymond's defensive abilities although MKG is close.

Lack of depth and/or a basket protector makes consistently employing the strategy problematic too.....IE GSW rolled with Bogut or Ezeli at 5 and have Livingston compared to Sessions or Roberts. If you watch CHA's second unit they switch far less than 1st.

Not saying CHA won't eventually get there - in fact I believe that's why Frank was drafted - but without the elite rim protector CHA needs to outscore opponents + switchier on defense and as of right now they're short offensive fire power and the aforementioned wing.

Mystical Apples · Post #426 » by **Mystical Apples** » Fri Mar 10, 2017 12:25 am

Boston has similar issues with IT, Bradley, and Horford but they've been outscoring teams since mid-December (#1 in Q4 scoring). Plus defensively they have Smart off the bench, not Sessions and Roberts

Unfortunately Charlotte is 27th for Q4 scoring. Actually, 28th if GSW is excluded.

http://stats.nba.com/teams/advanced/#!?sort=OFF_RATING&dir=1&Season=2016-17&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Period=4&DateFrom=12%2F18%2F2016

Eoghan · Post #427 » by **Eoghan** » Fri Mar 10, 2017 1:20 am

So it's not Clifford's fault, it's Kemba's. Got it. I blame Cho for drafting that little chucker.

Vanderbilt_Grad · Post #428 » by **Vanderbilt_Grad** » Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:53 am

No one talking about Cliff's post game comments that he couldn't reach this year's team?

316Hornets · Post #429 » by **316Hornets** » Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:55 am

Cliff is building a relationship. Last season the players gave a lot, now Cliff has to give a lot. You can't be a drill sergeant to millionaires.

Post #430 » by **fatlever** » Tue Mar 14, 2017 4:16 am

Vanderbilt_Grad wrote:No one talking about Cliff's post game comments that he couldn't reach this year's team?

Cliff sounded like a coach who was at wits end and possibly feeling the pressure of being on the hot seat. It's never a good sign when a coach feels like he is not getting through to his players. Are they tuning him out or just not responding to his message any longer?

If Cliff feels like he hasn't been able to get through to this team, as constructed, what is the point of bring back the same team and same coach next year? Why would you expected different results with the same ingredients? Does this signal some big trades this summer or a coaching change?

Post #431 » by **fatlever** » Tue Mar 14, 2017 4:18 am

I posted this in the game thread, but makes sense to leave it here as well. Who is not getting back on defense? Who, other than Lamb, is he talking about?

Read on Twitter

SWedd523 · Post #432 » by **SWedd523** » Tue Mar 14, 2017 4:35 am

316Hornets wrote:Cliff is building a relationship. Last season the players gave a lot, now Cliff has to give a lot. You can't be a drill sergeant to millionaires.

Cliff is a cuddle bear compared to a drill sergeant

Post #433 » by **yosemiteben** » Tue Mar 14, 2017 4:47 am

fatlever wrote:Who is not getting back on defense? Who, other than Lamb, is he talking about?

Marco
Batum
Kemba when he's too busy bitching about calls

I think his points about not buying in and getting back is a season long thing, not only this game.

Post #434 » by **Diop** » Tue Mar 14, 2017 9:40 am

SWedd523 wrote:
316Hornets wrote:Cliff is building a relationship. Last season the players gave a lot, now Cliff has to give a lot. You can't be a drill sergeant to millionaires.

Cliff is a cuddle bear compared to a drill sergeant

BobsBuddy · Post #435 » by **BobsBuddy** » Tue Mar 14, 2017 11:52 am

Kemba and Lamb were good on offense last night,but below average on defense. It seems like we don't want to play defense. 3 options:
Get a coaching staff like Phoenix and forget defense.
Trade for defensive minded players.
Do nothing and suck.

Mystical Apples · Post #436 » by **Mystical Apples** » Tue Mar 14, 2017 5:01 pm

Yeah Q4 transition D has been a problem all season. Effort is an issue and so is style.....lots of downhill attacking and/or getting shots blocked leading to baskets going the other direction.

And being last in Q4 offensive transition just compounds matters without the consistent 1b half court scoring option. In fact, I'd say at least 25% of what appears to be defensive problems are actually offensive problems that lead to inefficient defense.

TinmanZBoy · Post #437 » by **TinmanZBoy** » Tue Mar 14, 2017 5:40 pm

Mystical Apples wrote:Yeah Q4 transition D has been a problem all season. Effort is an issue and so is style.....lots of downhill attacking and/or getting shots blocked leading to baskets going the other direction.

And being last in Q4 offensive transition just compounds matters without the consistent 1b half court scoring option. In fact, I'd say at least 25% of what appears to be defensive problems are actually offensive problems that lead to inefficient defense.

agree

Post #438 » by **fatlever** » Wed Mar 29, 2017 9:10 pm

Clifford ranked 17th out of 30 coaches this year by ESPN

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/19024161/coach-ratings-1-30

Middle of the pack is about what I expected.

Braggins · Post #439 » by **Braggins** » Thu Apr 6, 2017 1:51 am

Apparently we broke the record for most 3pt FGs allowed in a season.

Post #440 » by **yosemiteben** » Thu Apr 6, 2017 1:57 am

Braggins wrote:Apparently we broke the record for most 3pt FGs allowed in a season.

6 of the top 7 all time are from this season. 7 of the top 10. 14 of the top 20.