OMFKG! The Michael Kidd-Gilchrist Thread

[KembaWalker]

i "feel" that AnaheimRoyale might be a troll. I "strongly doubt" that he is not a troll"

"in my opinion" he "probably" doesn't know jack **** about MKG or basketball

[MKG14]

Yes, that's what I've maintained I said the whole time. It is not the remark attributed to me, which is

you are stating a definite by saying that MKG WILL NOT be a top five player

I have made no such claim.

Maybe if people stopped overreacting they'd have more time to discuss the reasons I feel that way...

Maybe if you posted a list instead of blasting period feelings everywhere, we'd have something to discuss.

I think it's far too early to make either claim

Which is probably why I haven't made it, rather the MKG backers like Sik have.

yes you have. By saying "I don't think" or "I'm not sure that" you're suggesting the opposite will happen.

"I'm not sure O.J. was the real killer" places his innocence firmly in the realm of plausibility. You have to back even such a small claim up with at least once scenario in which this could be possible.

In your case, make a list. Make a damn list.

Where was I speaking in definites? You keep saying you've provided some sort of quote, and you keep quoting me saying things like "I don't feel confident" or "I'm just not sure". Do you even understand how silly you guys look by persisting with this?

Let's say I'm a witness and I say "I doubt the man has the wherewithal to murder his ex wife."

The next thing that happens is someone asks me "Why?"

So don't hide behind vagueries.

So I'll ask you finally to name 5 players that you think (note the use of think) will be better than MKG. Because if you DON'T THINK he'll be in the top 5 than you DO THINK someone else will. No one is asking you to be psychic.

[Eoghan]

Davis (duh), J. Lamb, Drummond, Beal, Barnes, Lillard, White, Leonard, Ross, and even Waiters or Sullinger (or insert guy drafted into really good situation here) could, could be better than MKG, nobody really knows.

My "guys" that I think highly of are Drummond, Lamb, White, Lillard and White. I think any of them could have been as impactful as MKG (read, not necessarily "better") and we probably could have gotten 2 of them (Cho's a genius, you know it), hence why I'm not popping champagne bottles over MKG. To me, after Davis, the draft was 2a, 2b, 2c, and so forth, and by all accounts MKG was 2a but I feel like after 7 wins it would have been a better return to draft multiple 1st rounders instead of putting our hopes and dreams all in one basket in MKG. This was a deep draft and it's unlikely that upcoming drafts will be, that's just the way it works out.

[MKG14]

Davis (duh), J. Lamb, Drummond, Beal, Barnes, Lillard, White, Leonard, Ross, and even Waiters or Sullinger (or insert guy drafted into really good situation here) could, could be better than MKG, nobody really knows.

Truth.

My "guys" that I think highly of are Drummond, Lamb, White, Lillard and White. I think any of them could have been as impactful as MKG (read, not necessarily "better") and we probably could have gotten 2 of them (Cho's a genius, you know it), hence why I'm not popping champagne bottles over MKG. To me, after Davis, the draft was 2a, 2b, 2c, and so forth, and by all accounts MKG was 2a but I feel like after 7 wins it would have been a better return to draft multiple 1st rounders instead of putting our hopes and dreams all in one basket in MKG. This was a deep draft and it's unlikely that upcoming drafts will be, that's just the way it works out.

lol, you said white twice

[amcoolio]

Jeff Taylor is basically a 2nd first rounder. He was slated to go in the late teens early twenties and I think he is better than White now and probably for the future as well.

Lillard is great, but hes 22 and there is a massive risk taking players that old, especially one as short as Lillard. I believe only Dwyane Wade was that old and became a star the past 15 years, and then there is Duncan who was a goody two shoes and wanted to graduate.

Drummond needs to be in the absolute best situation, IMO, to ever amount to anything. He won't contribute much his first couple years anyway.

Lamb is great shooting and scoring but won't contribute much else, and those players are easy to come by. He'll probably have a Kevin Martin career arc.

[BigSlam]

MKG was at the bottom of my want list but I'm stoked we have him and am really looking forward to what he can do.

Sure, he was the 2nd overall pick but it wouldn't have mattered if it was him, Beal, Robinson or Barnes that we drafted there would be a question mark over the validity of the pick.

End of the day so long as he doesn't totally flame out things will be good. Ideally he will develop into a super star but of the three top three picks we have taken in our history he is the one I feel best about.

I'm just looking forward to the kid playing full time.

[Eoghan]

lol, you said white twice

Whoops, I meant to say Leonard.

Jeff Taylor is basically a 2nd first rounder. He was slated to go in the late teens early twenties and I think he is better than White now and probably for the future as well.

Lillard is great, but hes 22 and there is a massive risk taking players that old, especially one as short as Lillard. I believe only Dwyane Wade was that old and became a star the past 15 years, and then there is Duncan who was a goody two shoes and wanted to graduate.

Drummond needs to be in the absolute best situation, IMO, to ever amount to anything. He won't contribute much his first couple years anyway.

Lamb is great shooting and scoring but won't contribute much else, and those players are easy to come by. He'll probably have a Kevin Martin career arc.

I agree that JT is basically another 1st rounder and if a trade down would have required giving up that pick (and therefore JT) then I'm not that bothered about what we ended up with. I wholeheartedly disagree that he is better than White.

We're already the youngest team in the league, we don't need every rookie to be a teenager so I don't know why age is an issue. Lillard's not that short either, he's like 6'3" and athletic and I don't see any massive risk. If he turns into the next great PG in a PG driven league the Bobcat's will looks like idiots again, almost regardless of how good MKG is.

Drummond will contribute blocks, rebounds and athleticism right away, no different than Biz.

Natural born scorers aren't that easy to come by, and scoring is a massive area of need. MKG can just as easily have a Sefolosha career arc as Lamb has a Kevin Martin one.

But anyway, this is an MKG thread so I won't play homeboy defender anymore.

(seriously, what's up with his knee?)

[MKG14]

I actually think MKG has a scorer's mentality. People tend to think that if you're great at defense you're bad at scoring and vice versa but he seems like a two way player

[AnaheimRoyale]

Jeff Taylor is basically a 2nd first rounder. He was slated to go in the late teens early twenties and I think he is better than White now and probably for the future as well.

I don't know what summer league you've been watching, but Taylor right now looks like he can turn into a productive swing man off the bench on a good team (maybe), while Royce White is showing flashes of star potential. Call me when Taylor is doing s#$% like this:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26CkdJ7qwZ8[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lVyGbCm8WM&feature=relmfu[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sps0J1jgses&feature=fvwrel[/youtube]

Royce obviously has baggage and issues, which is why he fell where he did, but please... this is a ridiculous comparison.

Lillard is great, but hes 22 and there is a massive risk taking players that old, especially one as short as Lillard. I believe only Dwyane Wade was that old and became a star the past 15 years, and then there is Duncan who was a goody two shoes and wanted to graduate.

If someone offers me Wade or D.Rob or Duncan, I'll take them thanks. Look, the most a team these days is assured of holding onto a free agent is about 7-8 years, and after that they can explore free agency. So while yes, it's nice to get someone who is an 19 year old star as opposed to a 22 year old star, if the 22 year old is a much better player, teams don't really care. Btw, Brandon Roy was the same age as Lillard too. And Yao Ming. And Larry Johnson. And Manu. And Karl Malone. And John Stockton. Barkley and Jordan were 21. Deron, Boozer, V.Carter, P.Pierce and Aldridge were 21. This sort of reasoning is a little silly.

If someone offers me 8 years of Lillard, telling me he's going to be Gary Payton Mach 2, or 11 years of Gerald Wallace, that's a pretty easy choice.

Drummond needs to be in the absolute best situation, IMO, to ever amount to anything. He won't contribute much his first couple years anyway.

Sure, this may not have been the right place for Drummond. Of course if Drummond becomes an all-nba player it still looks just as stupid. If the team looked at Drummond and said "yeh, he might be the MVP one day, but we can't afford to wait 2-3 years to groom him" is that really any comfort down the road? I'm fine with teams making these decisions, they have the resources and information we don't, but when it goes bad, they eat the consequences too.

Lamb is great shooting and scoring but won't contribute much else, and those players are easy to come by. He'll probably have a Kevin Martin career arc.

He could be Kevin Martin... or he could be Reggie Miller. It's way too early to tell. But pick his best summer game, he looks as good as MKG, who is projected to be what? G-Will or Iggy maybe? That's a nice player, but there's alot of potential for it to look awful very quickly.

[fatlever]

royale, i am curious, do you go on the wiz board to tell then you dont think beal can live up to #3 draft spot. do you go on cavs board and tell them that you dont think waiters can live up to the #4 spot? or do you only limit this thinking to MKG and our board?

[SWedd523]

I wanted Lamb. But I can live with MKG... probably my second choice of the big name guys (to Beal).



That said, he'll be nothing like Martin or Reggie Miller, you'd have to be pretty ignorant to draw that sort of comparison

[AnaheimRoyale]

royale, i am curious, do you go on the wiz board to tell then you dont think beal can live up to #3 draft spot. do you go on cavs board and tell them that you dont think waiters can live up to the #4 spot? or do you only limit this thinking to MKG and our board?

I went to the Cavs board and said I thought Waiters was either going to be huge catastrophe or a home run. I went to the Wizards board and said I thought Beal was just the player they needed (while slamming their GM for signposting who they were going to take in advance). I went to the Pistons board, who I had disagreed with many things on (including their love affair with Monroe) and told them Drummond at 9 was awesome, and it was the right move to swing for the fences. I told the Raptors board (who mostly felt the same way) that Ross was a terrible selection. I told the Blazers board they'd come away with 2 good draft selections. I told the Kings board T-Rob was a Kenyon Martin type player, which wasn't bad per se, but that they should adjust their expectations accodingly.

[BigSlam]

royale, i am curious, do you go on the wiz board to tell then you dont think beal can live up to #3 draft spot. do you go on cavs board and tell them that you dont think waiters can live up to the #4 spot? or do you only limit this thinking to MKG and our board?

I went to the Cavs board and said I thought Waiters was either going to be huge catastrophe or a home run. I went to the Wizards board and said I thought Beal was just the player they needed. I went to the Pistons board, who I had disagreed with many things on (including their love affair with Monroe) and told them Drummond at 9 was awesome, and it was the right move to swing for the fences. I told the Raptors board (who mostly felt the same way) that Ross was a terrible selection. I told the Blazers board they'd come away with 2 good draft selections. I told the Kings board T-Rob was a Kenyon Martin type player, which wasn't bad per se, but that they should adjust their expectations accodingly.

I dont agree with 90% of your soap box posted above - but appreciate your right to have an opinion.

End of the day though- we have MKG and he is by FAR the most exciting prospect we have ever had in the top 5 of the draft so I am pumped to see how it plays out.

[BigSlam]

BTW AnaheimRoyale: What are you expecting both statistically and tangibly (two VERY different things) from MKG his rookie, 4th year and long term career?

[AnaheimRoyale]

Well, I can certainly agree MKG is the best pick you guys have had for a while... but then the bar for that is pretty low, looking at recent Bobcat history. Part of that is incompetent GM's, the rest is extremely bad luck (getting the wrong picks in the wrong years).

MKG looks like he's somewhere between Iggy and a slightly rich mans G-Will/Iggy. I'm not going to guess his stats, volume stats are often bad indicators of value anyhow, but I think it's possible he can be the 3rd or 4th best player on a title team. A good character guy, flirts with some all-star appearances (or makes a few), works hard, doesn't cause drama, etc. There's no doubt he's a nice player to have, and fans should be alot more excited than they've had cause to with recent picks. At #2 in this draft though? Very, very doubtful this pick works out well. A team like the Bobcats can't afford mistakes, and if this guy isn't a top 5 player from this draft, he was a huge mistake.

[amcoolio]

You seriously posted a very slow Royce White dunk and said that is head and shoulders above anything JT has done? Thats just blind homerism

[AnaheimRoyale]

Yeh, I like how he slowly dribbled his way from the other end of the court, took his man off the dribble, and got the wide open dunk. For something slow, it sure seemed hard to stop... you remind me of Tim Duncan critics, remarking how his moves looked so basic and slow. Sure, they looked that way, but guys just never seemed able to stop them... there's a reason for that. Royce White needs to be faster than the guys he'll be matched up with, not Derrick Rose. He also looks to be maybe the best passing big man since Webber, with hands almost as good too.

[KembaWalker]

I can tell from 1 summer league game (and a billion Crash games) MKG has better passing ability and instincts than Crash ever did so that comparison is out the window. better rebounding Iggy with 20ppg potential might be about right. aka Pippen tier

[AnaheimRoyale]

Um.. Did you seriously just suggest if we gave Iggy better rebounding, he'd be Pippen? Do you have any idea how ridiculous that sounds?

[KembaWalker]

Um.. Did you seriously just suggest if we gave Iggy better rebounding, he'd be Pippen? Do you have any idea how ridiculous that sounds?

in his prime sure. 20/8/6 with 2 stl and elite defense. Pippen wasnt much better than that. iggy just had a short prime