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Barbeque Chicken: The Cody Zeller Thread - Pt 2

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Re: CZ Top: The Cody Zeller Thread - Pt 2 

Post#441 » by mrknowitall215 » Fri Oct 3, 2014 9:24 pm

JDR720 wrote:
At 7-foot and 240 pounds, Hornets big man Cody Zeller doesn’t have the size to bang inside with true NBA centers, but he thinks he can beat them in other ways.

Hornets coach Steve Clifford plans to use the second-year player at backup center to spell starter Al Jefferson if the matchup calls for it. And Zeller believes he’ll be able to work around the competition rather than through it.

“If I can play defense against the other (center), it should create an offensive matchup for myself,” Zeller said this week at Hornets’ training camp at UNC-Asheville. “There are a lot of big 5s (centers) in this league that I’m quicker than, if I can defend them on one end and hopefully score on them on the other end. I’m just trying to become tougher to guard and create more mismatches.”

In his rookie season last year, Zeller played mostly at power forward as Jefferson and backup Bismack Biyombo shared the center position. Zeller will remain a power forward first behind starter Marvin Williams, but his skill combination fits what Jefferson and Biyombo lack.

Jefferson struggled last season on pick-and-roll defense, and Zeller may offer better defense against more agile big men. On the offensive end, Biyombo has never filled up the stat sheet while Zeller is adding to his cadre of post moves.

“Cody’s not a back-to-the-basket guy like myself,” Jefferson said. “But when he does play the 5 and get in position, when he does get the ball in the post, he’ll either know how to face up, bounce it and go to a jump hook or whatever move he decides to go to.”

Charlotte selected Zeller with the fourth overall pick in the 2013 draft with the hope he would be able to run the fastbreak as well as shoot from outside. The team had seen his range in workouts even if it wasn’t displayed at Indiana during his two years as the Hoosiers’ center.

But Zeller rarely tested his range last season, and he averaged 6 points and 4.3 rebounds per game while averaging 17.3 minutes.

Through the first 57 games of the season, Zeller shot 37.8 percent from the field. In the final 25 games of the season, though, he improved to 53.2 percent. That strong finish in the final third of the year helped him earn second-team NBA All-Rookie honors.

Zeller said the game slowed down for him and he was able to catch and shoot without thinking about it.

Clifford said when Zeller plays center, the Hornets will play more pick and rolls - and they he’ll have a quickness advantage.

Defensively, Zeller has spent the offseason working on his defensive technique. He plans to use his quickness to front opposing centers and keep them from getting the ball deep in the post.

This week he’s practiced against Jefferson, the kind of big, slower center he may face in live action to get the mismatch.

Luckily for Zeller, he won’t have to face a center with the kind of pump fakes Jefferson has.

“I don’t know if anyone will be able to match that. That’s his go-to,” Zeller said. “I’ve been around him for a year now and I went for his shot fake on the first play today. I still go for it.

Read more here: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2014/1 ... C8RGvldXng#storylink=cpy


I hope this doesn't mean Bismack Biyombo DNPs
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Re: CZ Top: The Cody Zeller Thread - Pt 2 

Post#442 » by Liver_Pooty » Sat Oct 4, 2014 12:29 am

mrknowitall215 wrote:
JDR720 wrote:
At 7-foot and 240 pounds, Hornets big man Cody Zeller doesn’t have the size to bang inside with true NBA centers, but he thinks he can beat them in other ways.

Hornets coach Steve Clifford plans to use the second-year player at backup center to spell starter Al Jefferson if the matchup calls for it. And Zeller believes he’ll be able to work around the competition rather than through it.

“If I can play defense against the other (center), it should create an offensive matchup for myself,” Zeller said this week at Hornets’ training camp at UNC-Asheville. “There are a lot of big 5s (centers) in this league that I’m quicker than, if I can defend them on one end and hopefully score on them on the other end. I’m just trying to become tougher to guard and create more mismatches.”

In his rookie season last year, Zeller played mostly at power forward as Jefferson and backup Bismack Biyombo shared the center position. Zeller will remain a power forward first behind starter Marvin Williams, but his skill combination fits what Jefferson and Biyombo lack.

Jefferson struggled last season on pick-and-roll defense, and Zeller may offer better defense against more agile big men. On the offensive end, Biyombo has never filled up the stat sheet while Zeller is adding to his cadre of post moves.

“Cody’s not a back-to-the-basket guy like myself,” Jefferson said. “But when he does play the 5 and get in position, when he does get the ball in the post, he’ll either know how to face up, bounce it and go to a jump hook or whatever move he decides to go to.”

Charlotte selected Zeller with the fourth overall pick in the 2013 draft with the hope he would be able to run the fastbreak as well as shoot from outside. The team had seen his range in workouts even if it wasn’t displayed at Indiana during his two years as the Hoosiers’ center.

But Zeller rarely tested his range last season, and he averaged 6 points and 4.3 rebounds per game while averaging 17.3 minutes.

Through the first 57 games of the season, Zeller shot 37.8 percent from the field. In the final 25 games of the season, though, he improved to 53.2 percent. That strong finish in the final third of the year helped him earn second-team NBA All-Rookie honors.

Zeller said the game slowed down for him and he was able to catch and shoot without thinking about it.

Clifford said when Zeller plays center, the Hornets will play more pick and rolls - and they he’ll have a quickness advantage.

Defensively, Zeller has spent the offseason working on his defensive technique. He plans to use his quickness to front opposing centers and keep them from getting the ball deep in the post.

This week he’s practiced against Jefferson, the kind of big, slower center he may face in live action to get the mismatch.

Luckily for Zeller, he won’t have to face a center with the kind of pump fakes Jefferson has.

“I don’t know if anyone will be able to match that. That’s his go-to,” Zeller said. “I’ve been around him for a year now and I went for his shot fake on the first play today. I still go for it.

Read more here: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2014/1 ... C8RGvldXng#storylink=cpy


I hope this doesn't mean Bismack Biyombo DNPs


Trying to think of what centers around the league that Zeller might be able to play against. I'm sure he has gotten a lot stronger in the off season, but hes still probably a season away from being able to really defend that position like he should.
Balllin wrote:Zion Williamson is 6-5, with a 6-10 wingspan. I see him as a slightly better Kenneth Faried.
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Re: CZ Top: The Cody Zeller Thread - Pt 2 

Post#443 » by fatlever » Sat Oct 4, 2014 1:33 am

there's a few centers that get minutes that zeller can physically match up against in limited minutes

nerlens noel
larry sanders
jon henson
joakim noah
tyler zeller
javale mcgee
david lee - when warriors go small
kevin garnett
chris bosh - when the heat go small
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Re: CZ Top: The Cody Zeller Thread - Pt 2 

Post#444 » by Liver_Pooty » Sat Oct 4, 2014 1:40 am

fatlever wrote:there's a few centers that get minutes that zeller can physically match up against in limited minutes

nerlens noel
larry sanders
jon henson
joakim noah
tyler zeller
javale mcgee
david lee - when warriors go small
kevin garnett
chris bosh - when the heat go small


True, but the advantage he would have on the offensive end as far as quickness goes would be limited against most, if not all of those guys. I still think its worth experimenting with. I don't want it to be at the expense of Biyombos minutes, though.
Balllin wrote:Zion Williamson is 6-5, with a 6-10 wingspan. I see him as a slightly better Kenneth Faried.
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Re: CZ Top: The Cody Zeller Thread - Pt 2 

Post#445 » by Eoghan » Sat Oct 4, 2014 1:55 am

fatlever wrote:there's a few centers that get minutes that zeller can physically match up against in limited minutes

nerlens noel Length disadvantage
larry sanders length disadvantage
jon henson Length disadvantage
joakim noah Length disadvantage
tyler zeller
javale mcgee Length disadvantage
david lee - when warriors go small
kevin garnett Length disadvantage
chris bosh - when the heat go small Length disadvantage

His arms and girth are iffy against a lot of PFs, he'll be eaten alive by Cs.
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Re: CZ Top: The Cody Zeller Thread - Pt 2 

Post#446 » by BeesWax » Sat Oct 4, 2014 8:37 pm

BrotherDave wrote:
fatlever wrote:there's a few centers that get minutes that zeller can physically match up against in limited minutes

nerlens noel Length disadvantage
larry sanders length disadvantage
jon henson Length disadvantage
joakim noah Length disadvantage
tyler zeller
javale mcgee Length disadvantage
david lee - when warriors go small
kevin garnett Length disadvantage
chris bosh - when the heat go small Length disadvantage

His arms and girth are iffy against a lot of PFs, he'll be eaten alive by Cs.

He is just not long enough to be effective on defense and won't have a big advantage against these guys in speed. Cody needs to spend his time learning to shoot and spread the floor. That is what his frame dictates he needs to do.
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Re: CZ Top: The Cody Zeller Thread - Pt 2 

Post#447 » by Hornet Mania » Sat Oct 4, 2014 9:52 pm

I'm guessing coach Clifford wants to see how Zeller would do at center in the event Noah Vonleh becomes starting PF and Big Al declines/departs. I don't think it will take him long to realize that he simply doesn't have the length to get it done at that spot for long stretches, but it makes sense to at least test the waters a bit. Personally I hope Biz can develop into a starter by the time Al has to be put out to pasture, and even if Vonleh leapfrogs Zeller it's not the worst thing in the world to have a rotation of three young and improving big men.
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Re: CZ Top: The Cody Zeller Thread - Pt 2 

Post#448 » by yosemiteben » Sat Oct 4, 2014 11:26 pm

Hornet Mania wrote:I'm guessing coach Clifford wants to see how Zeller would do at center in the event Noah Vonleh becomes starting PF and Big Al declines/departs. I don't think it will take him long to realize that he simply doesn't have the length to get it done at that spot for long stretches, but it makes sense to at least test the waters a bit.

Good point, hadn't thought of that. If that's not the reason then I really don't get it - Vonleh isn't ready for backup minutes, so either he plans to run Marvin for the lion's share of the PF minutes (unlikely) or he has officially given up on Biz.
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Re: CZ Top: The Cody Zeller Thread - Pt 2 

Post#449 » by Liver_Pooty » Sat Oct 4, 2014 11:31 pm

yosemiteben wrote:
Hornet Mania wrote:I'm guessing coach Clifford wants to see how Zeller would do at center in the event Noah Vonleh becomes starting PF and Big Al declines/departs. I don't think it will take him long to realize that he simply doesn't have the length to get it done at that spot for long stretches, but it makes sense to at least test the waters a bit.

Good point, hadn't thought of that. If that's not the reason then I really don't get it - Vonleh isn't ready for backup minutes, so either he plans to run Marvin for the lion's share of the PF minutes (unlikely) or he has officially given up on Biz.


Im interested in seeing Biyombos progression this season. Should be interesting.
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Re: CZ Top: The Cody Zeller Thread - Pt 2 

Post#450 » by Elden Payton » Sat Oct 4, 2014 11:59 pm

Biyombo is the better option at the 5 imo.

Zeller is clearly a PF.

Vonleh may actually be a 5 long term also.

Biz v Vonleh for backup 5.

Zeller v Marv for starting 4.

Competition is great for our team.
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Re: CZ Top: The Cody Zeller Thread - Pt 2 

Post#451 » by Liver_Pooty » Sun Oct 5, 2014 12:02 am

Sik Infant wrote:Biyombo is the better option at the 5 imo.

Zeller is clearly a PF.

Vonleh may actually be a 5 long term also.

Biz v Vonleh for backup 5.

Zeller v Marv for starting 4.

Competition is great for our team.


I actually think Vonleh is a center long term. Guy already has a pretty damn large build for a 19 year old, and his measurables stack up pretty well with other centers across the league.
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Re: CZ Top: The Cody Zeller Thread - Pt 2 

Post#452 » by Elden Payton » Sun Oct 5, 2014 12:07 am

Liver_Pooty wrote:
Sik Infant wrote:Biyombo is the better option at the 5 imo.

Zeller is clearly a PF.

Vonleh may actually be a 5 long term also.

Biz v Vonleh for backup 5.

Zeller v Marv for starting 4.

Competition is great for our team.


I actually think Vonleh is a center long term. Guy already has a pretty damn large build for a 19 year old, and his measurables stack up pretty well with other centers across the league.


He has the right build and the right game.

His game would translate better to being a 5 too, even as raw as he is at the moment.

He rebounds like a monster, is built like a truck and is as long as stretch armstrong.

Probably be better anchoring the paint than shooting 18 footers.
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Re: CZ Top: The Cody Zeller Thread - Pt 2 

Post#453 » by yosemiteben » Sun Oct 5, 2014 12:46 am

Since this is the Zeller thread I'll go ahead and say I've become super nervous about Vonleh and hope no one notices. Looking at his college highlights, he is so raw. He's got a massive wingspan and good vertical yet somehow he is a below the rim player. That concerns me.

Honestly I would've felt better in the short term with McDermott. Here's hoping Cho makes me like stupid.
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Re: CZ Top: The Cody Zeller Thread - Pt 2 

Post#454 » by Liver_Pooty » Sun Oct 5, 2014 12:48 am

yosemiteben wrote:Since this is the Zeller thread I'll go ahead and say I've become super nervous about Vonleh and hope no one notices. Looking at his college highlights, he is so raw. He's got a massive wingspan and good vertical yet somehow he is a below the rim player. That concerns me.

Honestly I would've felt better in the short term with McDermott. Here's hoping Cho makes me like stupid.


I've been incredibly nervous about him from the get go. Kid isn't as raw as Biyombo was, but hes pretty damn raw. I wanted McDermott sooo bad in the draft, and still do. I just hope this pick pans out. This pick could end up being the difference of being a treadmill team and a perennial top 4 seed.
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Re: CZ Top: The Cody Zeller Thread - Pt 2 

Post#455 » by BeesWax » Sun Oct 5, 2014 1:18 am

yosemiteben wrote:Since this is the Zeller thread I'll go ahead and say I've become super nervous about Vonleh and hope no one notices. Looking at his college highlights, he is so raw. He's got a massive wingspan and good vertical yet somehow he is a below the rim player. That concerns me.

Honestly I would've felt better in the short term with McDermott. Here's hoping Cho makes me like stupid.

I am curious if it is an Indiana thing since Zeller had a good vert and played below the rim too. It was shocking to see their verts at the combine vs. there play in college.
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Re: CZ Top: The Cody Zeller Thread - Pt 2 

Post#456 » by Diop » Sun Oct 5, 2014 4:02 am

Hornet Mania wrote:I'm guessing coach Clifford wants to see how Zeller would do at center in the event Noah Vonleh becomes starting PF and Big Al declines/departs.

There were times last year when the offence really faulted when Biz went into the game. I think Clifford is just looking for another option at centre in case that starts to happen again.

we saw last year that Clifford doesn't really experiment during games, player positions were pretty set, so I guess he's experimenting now to give himself more choices during the season.
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Re: CZ Top: The Cody Zeller Thread - Pt 2 

Post#457 » by Eoghan » Sun Oct 5, 2014 4:30 am

I can't think of a discernible basketball reason, no matter how minute, that would lead Clifford to believe that Zed can play center. I think Clifford hates African guys like Danny Ferry or something.
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Re: CZ Top: The Cody Zeller Thread - Pt 2 

Post#458 » by Liver_Pooty » Sun Oct 5, 2014 6:06 am

Sachmo wrote:
Hornet Mania wrote:I'm guessing coach Clifford wants to see how Zeller would do at center in the event Noah Vonleh becomes starting PF and Big Al declines/departs.

There were times last year when the offence really faulted when Biz went into the game. I think Clifford is just looking for another option at centre in case that starts to happen again.

we saw last year that Clifford doesn't really experiment during games, player positions were pretty set, so I guess he's experimenting now to give himself more choices during the season.


There havs been times the past 3 years the offense has faulted with him in the game. Solid shot blocker and defender, but he is no threat offensively, at all.
Balllin wrote:Zion Williamson is 6-5, with a 6-10 wingspan. I see him as a slightly better Kenneth Faried.
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Re: CZ Top: The Cody Zeller Thread - Pt 2 

Post#459 » by JDR720 » Sun Oct 5, 2014 4:15 pm

Today is his birthday
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Re: CZ Top: The Cody Zeller Thread - Pt 2 

Post#460 » by countryboi » Sun Oct 5, 2014 4:38 pm

Happy birthday Cody...I hope your balls drop this season.
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