Woj: Batum to Charlotte, Vonleh + Gerald to Portland

[SpearNMgicHelmt]

Now that we've got Lamb and Lin, it's even more annoying that we gave up Vonleh for Batum.

[catch20two]

Now that we've got Lamb and Lin, it's even more annoying that we gave up Vonleh for Batum.

On the bright side it was prolly the only way we could get rid of Hendo.

[RollingWave]

If it's any comfort, the year before this, the summer league MVP got cut half way through the following season.

So yeah, don't take too much stock into summer league, teams either run nothing at all or experiment with really weird stuff, and 80% of the guys will never make it in the NBA anyway.

[Bassman]

The trade of Vonleh was stupid. There is no rationale that is logical. Supposedly the idiot Clifford believed he was slow to "get it". Combined with Cho's desperation for a shooter, this was a perfect storm to lose a great prospect. So Cho gives up a pick to get Biz, who was a true reach as a lottery selection, then sits on him through his contract hoping he proves that value. Noah had much more promise, tremendous skill set and physical tools, but he is expendable?

Desperation is never a good thing when trading assets. They will regret dealing him. We will feel the pain.

[BigSlam]

Its just summer league but Vonleh looks really good. Did I mention he's 19? The team gave up on him and he's . . . 19? Still shaking my head.

He hasn't looked that good. He's still looking super raw and confused at times.

No doubt the potential is there though.


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[Snidely FC]

Its just summer league but Vonleh looks really good. Did I mention he's 19? The team gave up on him and he's . . . 19? Still shaking my head.

He hasn't looked that good. He's still looking super raw and confused at times.

No doubt the potential is there though.


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Yeah. I just hate trades that mortgage the future. Oh well, he's gone.

I actually like Nic Batum a lot, and am looking forward to rooting for him this year.

[Al Kidd-Walker]

Meanwhile Vonleh leads his team to a victory against the #1 pick.. he's looking like day and night compared to last years summer league

16 and 10 on 50% shooting, not too shabby. I honestly cannot wait to see this man flourish in his career and this trade get looked back upon as one of the worst trades in NBA history.

[Braggins]

Just shows how pathetic our staffs player development and ability to teach the game is. We basically had to throw away the gains from the rebuild because we werent going to get anything out of our developing players.

[Eoghan]

Vonleh and Biz would have been a beastly front court.*

I still don't see how people can think that Vonleh was slow to get it. Get what, Clifford's we todd ed offense?

*If Charlotte could develop anything but PJ's court costs

[Diop]

I still don't see how people can think that Vonleh was slow to get it. Get what, Clifford's we todd ed offense?

I really wanted to believe it, helped me come to terms with the trade.

I really like Batum, but I really didn't want to get rid of Vonleh

[Cheeze]

I still don't see how people can think that Vonleh was slow to get it. Get what, Clifford's we todd ed offense?

I really wanted to believe it, helped me come to terms with the trade.

I really like Batum, but I really didn't want to get rid of Vonleh

I wasn't thrilled that Cho gave up Vonleh either, but the alternative was Zeller. It was either him or Vonleh. And if I look at it from a purely basketball standpoint, the trade makes a lot of sense.

We talk on this board about developing players, letting them develop and such. But the sentiment I've read here was that if it was Zellar that was traded we'd be emotionally fine with the trade. So how's that developing our draft picks?

Zeller disappointed with his poor outside shooting. Fine. He's trash (sarcasm). But we held up Vonleh as the next Chris Bosh and put him up so high that Steve Clifford was crucified for not playing said prodigy. Not considering, of course, that the kid was barely nineteen and entering a man's world. Not considering that he is LITERALLY three years from being a major contributor at the NBA level. Not considering that maybe Clifford is correct that Vonleh is slow to learn things. I'll say it: it was a mistake to draft Vonleh, despite how our fantasies want him to be this great get at such a low draft position.

Vonleh is a child. Batum is a man. Good trade.

[yosemiteben]

Query for the group - assuming Batum resigns in Charlotte for a not outrageous contract (big assumption, I know), what sort of career projection for Vonleh would make the trade a bad trade?

If in four years he is averaging 12 points 8 boards on ok shooting %'s with pretty good 3PT% (essentially Channing Frye numbers) and playing good but not great defense, does that mean we lost the trade? Just curious to hear thoughts on quantifying the sort of production he would need to cause people to like the trade, or if loss of potential trumps future actual production.

[MPM]

Query for the group - assuming Batum resigns in Charlotte for a not outrageous contract (big assumption, I know), what sort of career projection for Vonleh would make the trade a bad trade?

If in four years he is averaging 12 points 8 boards on ok shooting %'s with pretty good 3PT% (essentially Channing Frye numbers) and playing good but not great defense, does that mean we lost the trade? Just curious to hear thoughts on quantifying the sort of production he would need to cause people to like the trade, or if loss of potential trumps future actual production.

Fair enough question - I think that if Batum performs well, resigns at a reasonable rate, and - in four years - Vonleh is 12/8, I'm more than happy with the trade. I think it's a very bad trade if we see 18/10 in 2 years shooting around 37/38 from 3 and he's shown he can play above average interior D, which is about what I expect of him.

[Liver_Pooty]

Query for the group - assuming Batum resigns in Charlotte for a not outrageous contract (big assumption, I know), what sort of career projection for Vonleh would make the trade a bad trade?

If in four years he is averaging 12 points 8 boards on ok shooting %'s with pretty good 3PT% (essentially Channing Frye numbers) and playing good but not great defense, does that mean we lost the trade? Just curious to hear thoughts on quantifying the sort of production he would need to cause people to like the trade, or if loss of potential trumps future actual production.

People on the Portland board believe he will turnout to be a decent NBA player. People on here think he is a future multiple time all star. Interesting.

I think he would have to average around 15/8 for us to have lost the trade.

[Liver_Pooty]

Query for the group - assuming Batum resigns in Charlotte for a not outrageous contract (big assumption, I know), what sort of career projection for Vonleh would make the trade a bad trade?

If in four years he is averaging 12 points 8 boards on ok shooting %'s with pretty good 3PT% (essentially Channing Frye numbers) and playing good but not great defense, does that mean we lost the trade? Just curious to hear thoughts on quantifying the sort of production he would need to cause people to like the trade, or if loss of potential trumps future actual production.

Fair enough question - I think that if Batum performs well, resigns at a reasonable rate, and - in four years - Vonleh is 12/8, I'm more than happy with the trade. I think it's a very bad trade if we see 18/10 in 2 years shooting around 37/38 from 3 and he's shown he can play above average interior D, which is about what I expect of him.

You think he will average 18/10 in 2 years? Maybe in 5. definitely not 2 from what I've seen.

I don't think he'll hit that level at all to be honest.

[MPM]

Query for the group - assuming Batum resigns in Charlotte for a not outrageous contract (big assumption, I know), what sort of career projection for Vonleh would make the trade a bad trade?

If in four years he is averaging 12 points 8 boards on ok shooting %'s with pretty good 3PT% (essentially Channing Frye numbers) and playing good but not great defense, does that mean we lost the trade? Just curious to hear thoughts on quantifying the sort of production he would need to cause people to like the trade, or if loss of potential trumps future actual production.

Fair enough question - I think that if Batum performs well, resigns at a reasonable rate, and - in four years - Vonleh is 12/8, I'm more than happy with the trade. I think it's a very bad trade if we see 18/10 in 2 years shooting around 37/38 from 3 and he's shown he can play above average interior D, which is about what I expect of him.

You think he will average 18/10 in 2 years? Maybe in 5. definitely not 2 from what I've seen.

I don't think he'll hit that level at all to be honest.

I'm shooting high, but also within context. With the POR rebuild, I expect him to see big minutes on a young squad and he's a very good rebounder. Who knows - pure speculation - partial freudenschade for the hornets I guess. I'm so used to disappointment that I'm subconsciously seeking more perhaps.

[yosemiteben]

Wow, high expectations.

I mean I can see it going both ways. You have to think about what we could get from Batum too - if he is putting up All Star type numbers and helping lead us to playoff success, then that would mitigate the harm a good bit, but if Vonleh averages 18 and 10 in the 2018-19 season at the age of 22, yeah that would be a really bad look for our FO and would be tough to argue that it was a good move.

[Liver_Pooty]

Fair enough question - I think that if Batum performs well, resigns at a reasonable rate, and - in four years - Vonleh is 12/8, I'm more than happy with the trade. I think it's a very bad trade if we see 18/10 in 2 years shooting around 37/38 from 3 and he's shown he can play above average interior D, which is about what I expect of him.

You think he will average 18/10 in 2 years? Maybe in 5. definitely not 2 from what I've seen.

I don't think he'll hit that level at all to be honest.

I'm shooting high, but also within context. With the POR rebuild, I expect him to see big minutes on a young squad and he's a very good rebounder. Who knows - pure speculation - partial freudenschade for the hornets I guess.

Just going by off the Portland board (I'm not going to pretend to be an expert on their team) they expect him to get about 10-15 minutes a game, maybe more. I think that'd actually be pretty good for his development.

I don't think we traded a Jermaine O'Neal or Zach Randolph or anything in that regard.

[yosemiteben]

Random thought - Noah Vonleh was born in August of 1995.

Damn I'm getting old.

[MPM]

You think he will average 18/10 in 2 years? Maybe in 5. definitely not 2 from what I've seen.

I don't think he'll hit that level at all to be honest.

I'm shooting high, but also within context. With the POR rebuild, I expect him to see big minutes on a young squad and he's a very good rebounder. Who knows - pure speculation - partial freudenschade for the hornets I guess.

Just going by off the Portland board (I'm not going to pretend to be an expert on their team) they expect him to get about 10-15 minutes a game, maybe more. I think that'd actually be pretty good for his development.

I don't think we traded a Jermaine O'Neal or Zach Randolph or anything in that regard.

I'm assuming Plumlee, Davis will start? Then it's Leonard, Kaman, Vonleh. Yeah, makes sense. I see the trajectory. 2 years may be over shooting, so let's go back to the original 4 year window - I'll go 18/10 then. If he's 15/8 in four years,I'd be torn if Batum performs well. Good hypothetical Yosemite. Puts it into context, plus I'm halfway to drunk - moving house, pints are flowing, and math is fuzzy.