Prospect Thread: James Wiseman

Post #441 » by **luciano-davidwesley** » Wed Oct 28, 2020 6:00 am

I want Wiseman but wouldn't be trading a future CHA first for anyone in this draft - protected or not. BPA at 3 will be fine.

Like above I'd only consider trading the likes of Zeller and second round picks at most to move up.

amcoolio · Post #442 » by **amcoolio** » Wed Oct 28, 2020 6:00 am

I just don't see it man. Even if you get a better version of Deandre Jordan with this guy there is just no indication that he will be anything but a 2000's style center who can't play at the end of games because he'll be switched on to death. In our own division alone he can't guard Bam or Vucevic or Collins so what are we going to do, trade up to 1 and give away assets for a guy that plays 1st and 3rd quarters?

UNCNYC · Post #443 » by **UNCNYC** » Wed Oct 28, 2020 8:02 am

Wiseman, Edwards or Toppin will unfortunately be a continuation of bad or mediocure moves made by our franchise over the years. Not in agreement with either one of them.

driveandkick · Post #444 » by **driveandkick** » Wed Oct 28, 2020 1:49 pm

amcoolio wrote:I just don't see it man. Even if you get a better version of Deandre Jordan with this guy there is just no indication that he will be anything but a 2000's style center who can't play at the end of games because he'll be switched on to death. In our own division alone he can't guard Bam or Vucevic or Collins so what are we going to do, trade up to 1 and give away assets for a guy that plays 1st and 3rd quarters?

Preach

Post #445 » by **Diop** » Wed Oct 28, 2020 2:01 pm

amcoolio wrote:I just don't see it man. Even if you get a better version of Deandre Jordan with this guy there is just no indication that he will be anything but a 2000's style center who can't play at the end of games because he'll be switched on to death. In our own division alone he can't guard Bam or Vucevic or Collins so what are we going to do, trade up to 1 and give away assets for a guy that plays 1st and 3rd quarters?

Would you take Embiid if he was available?

I'm not saying Wiseman will ever be as good, but it sounds like you wouldn't consider any big centres.

Post #446 » by **BigSlam** » Wed Oct 28, 2020 2:10 pm

Diop wrote:
amcoolio wrote:I just don't see it man. Even if you get a better version of Deandre Jordan with this guy there is just no indication that he will be anything but a 2000's style center who can't play at the end of games because he'll be switched on to death. In our own division alone he can't guard Bam or Vucevic or Collins so what are we going to do, trade up to 1 and give away assets for a guy that plays 1st and 3rd quarters?

Would you take Embiid if he was available?

I'm not saying Wiseman will ever be as good, but it sounds like you wouldn't consider any big centres.

Considering their body types and athletic profiles, add in that they are both essentially prospects going from high school to the NBA - I'd ask if people would take Garnett if he were available.

Like you, I'm not suggesting Wiseman will ever be as good as Garnett, but I wouldn't discount a prospect with that kind of upside just because he's 7' tall.

amcoolio · Post #447 » by **amcoolio** » Wed Oct 28, 2020 2:25 pm

BigSlam wrote:
Diop wrote:
amcoolio wrote:I just don't see it man. Even if you get a better version of Deandre Jordan with this guy there is just no indication that he will be anything but a 2000's style center who can't play at the end of games because he'll be switched on to death. In our own division alone he can't guard Bam or Vucevic or Collins so what are we going to do, trade up to 1 and give away assets for a guy that plays 1st and 3rd quarters?

Would you take Embiid if he was available?

I'm not saying Wiseman will ever be as good, but it sounds like you wouldn't consider any big centres.

Considering their body types and athletic profiles, add in that they are both essentially prospects going from high school to the NBA - I'd ask if people would take Garnett if he were available.

Like you, I'm not suggesting Wiseman will ever be as good as Garnett, but I wouldn't discount a prospect with that kind of upside just because he's 7' tall.

Its not that he is tall, I have no problem taking a 7 footer, and we definitely need a center

But if you go back and watch his college games, he gets in trouble if he's out of the paint because people either blow past him and he can't recover or he will be destroyed in the pick and roll. I just don't think you can take a guy like that at #1, we are all going to be pulling our hair out at the end of games when our #1 pick is not out there to close them. Any team with a quick 5 or that plays small ball means we have to take Wiseman out of the game.

Embiid and Garnett are quick and can guard out to the perimeter and can handle the ball and make quick decisions

Maybe I'm wrong, I'm just waiting for the visual proof

Vanderbilt_Grad · Post #448 » by **Vanderbilt_Grad** » Wed Oct 28, 2020 2:32 pm

Diop wrote:
amcoolio wrote:I just don't see it man. Even if you get a better version of Deandre Jordan with this guy there is just no indication that he will be anything but a 2000's style center who can't play at the end of games because he'll be switched on to death. In our own division alone he can't guard Bam or Vucevic or Collins so what are we going to do, trade up to 1 and give away assets for a guy that plays 1st and 3rd quarters?

Would you take Embiid if he was available?

I'm not saying Wiseman will ever be as good, but it sounds like you wouldn't consider any big centres.

I don't want to answer for him, but my two cents that 1) traditional centers are devalued - draft late or not at all & 2) multi-skilled modern centers are great & can be drafted whenever. I feel good about Wiseman in the 6-8 range in this draft, but not the 1-3.

As for Embiid, the same applies to him. If there were a similarly impactful wing or PG I would draft them ahead of Embiid. If Embiid was BPA then, sure he would be my pick at 3.

Being big and coordinated are great advantages ... but this isn't the 1990s, where that and an inside game would be enough. Centers like AD, KAT, and Bam are where it's at. I don't think that Wiseman ends up being one of those guys. I do think that he ends up being pretty good.

FWIW, I'm down all all of the early 'consensus top 3 guys' and I'm a LOT more down on ball than I am on Wiseman.

Liver_Pooty · Post #449 » by **Liver_Pooty** » Wed Oct 28, 2020 2:35 pm

Wiseman moves better than Embiid. I truly do not get the argument that he is slow or lumbering :-/

James Gatz · Post #450 » by **James Gatz** » Wed Oct 28, 2020 2:39 pm

Garnett would be an ideal 5 in the modern NBA. The issue isn't 7 footers, the issue is that 7 footers rarely have the lateral foot speed needed to guard on switches. If there was a 7 footer who can switch and provide solid offense I'd easily take him 1 in this draft.

Embiid is a good discussion point. He does not have ability to really guard on the perimeter but is significantly stronger and his offensive game is leagues ahead of Wiseman. Embiid forces you to play drop coverage but can be fulcrum of an offense. I don't see Wiseman ever being that guy even in his best case outcomes.

It's at the point where I think he will be our pick. I'm not excited but I'm praying that I'm wrong about him. I'll be rooting for him to succeed, otherwise our franchise has taken another step back.

Liver_Pooty · Post #451 » by **Liver_Pooty** » Wed Oct 28, 2020 2:40 pm

I dont think hes the next Garnett, Embiid or even Bosh. Nor do I think we should give up a future first to move up for him. Would I give up a little bit to get him at 1 though? Yeah, I would. I think hes about as perfect a compliment to PJ as there is and we would be set at the 4 and 5 for years to come.

Post #452 » by **BigSlam** » Wed Oct 28, 2020 2:42 pm

amcoolio wrote:....we are all going to be pulling our hair out at the end of games when our #1 pick is not out there to close them. Any team with a quick 5 or that plays small ball means we have to take Wiseman out of the game.

Is that situational though?

Eg: If a team has the lead and wants to protect the lead Vs a team is behind and is trying to catch up.

How do those two scenarios influence the line ups teams go with at certain times?

Post #453 » by **fatlever** » Wed Oct 28, 2020 2:56 pm

Listened to Rick Bonnell on his interview this morning. He said he spoke to two front office people and he seems very convinced that it's not a smokescreen. They asked him what would be fair value to move up and he mentioned Cody Zeller and Malik Monk as trade bait. At no point did he bring up an unconditional future first-round pick. That's completely asinine and I don't believe for one second that is on the table.

I do believe that Cody would be a fantastic fit with the Warriors. His screen setting ability with curry and Thompson would be a match made in heaven. We would probably have to take back a bad contract and that deal.

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SWedd523 · Post #454 » by **SWedd523** » Wed Oct 28, 2020 2:59 pm

Liver_Pooty wrote:Wiseman moves better than Embiid. I truly do not get the argument that he is slow or lumbering :-/

Bro, seriously. lol

Liver_Pooty · Post #455 » by **Liver_Pooty** » Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:04 pm

SWedd523 wrote:
Liver_Pooty wrote:Wiseman moves better than Embiid. I truly do not get the argument that he is slow or lumbering :-/

Bro, seriously. lol

Lol I truly think he moves better laterally. I may end up being wrong, but that's what I see anyway.

LofJ · Post #456 » by **LofJ** » Wed Oct 28, 2020 4:12 pm

Wiseman is a grinder, he works really hard. He can also handle the ball a bit and has solid shooting mechanics. There is a lot to work with there.

So let's not forget how crucial development once you get to the NBA is. Kemba made himself into an all-star with skill development and Bam Adebayo transformed himself into a very different player. We aren't drafting a finished product, far from it. Fast, decently agile and skilled 19 year old bigs with 7'6 wingspans don't come along every year.

Post #457 » by **yosemiteben** » Wed Oct 28, 2020 4:17 pm

fatlever wrote:Listened to Rick Bonnell on his interview this morning. He said he spoke to two front office people and he seems very convinced that it's not a smokescreen.

Interesting, this is the sort of scoop that Bonnell is known for not getting.

Post #458 » by **fatlever** » Wed Oct 28, 2020 4:23 pm

Read on Twitter

?s=19

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amcoolio · Post #459 » by **amcoolio** » Wed Oct 28, 2020 4:28 pm

I won't be mad if we take Wiseman, I'll cheer him on and be optimistic about his potential, I just think there are a few players who will be better/more impactful than him long term and at pick #3 there is no excuse

I was wrong on SGA, and I think Hayes is flat out better than SGA, and I think you can win basketball games with Washington at the 5, which means we can take a wing here and be fine

Post #460 » by **BigSlam** » Wed Oct 28, 2020 4:52 pm

fatlever wrote:Listened to Rick Bonnell on his interview this morning. He said he spoke to two front office people and he seems very convinced that it's not a smokescreen. They asked him what would be fair value to move up and he mentioned Cody Zeller and Malik Monk as trade bait. At no point did he bring up an unconditional future first-round pick. That's completely asinine and I don't believe for one second that is on the table.

I do believe that Cody would be a fantastic fit with the Warriors. His screen setting ability with curry and Thompson would be a match made in heaven. We would probably have to take back a bad contract and that deal.

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I posed this on Aug 21st:

BigSlam wrote:Warriors offer:

#2 and Wiggins
For
#3 and Cody

We draft Wiseman and add the wing scorer we need going into next season with:
Tae - Wiggins - Miles - 3J - Wiseman

The Warriors only move down 1 spot, pick up a young vet 5 while getting out of the Wiggins contract and add Edwards at #3 to eventually replace Wiggins at a much lower price.

What would you do?

I'd also mentioned in the fake trade thread months ago that, like you above, I thought Cody would be an awesome fit on the Warriors with his hard picks and rim running.

I also posted that I think Bats would be a good fit there in an "Iguodala" role for them.