Fake Trade Thread #3

[TBri1974]

How would you guys feel about adding some value to a Batum for Randle trade? I get it, Randle doesn't play defense, but even if you bring him in off the bench, you are filling a need at big with someone capable of - and likely to - put up 20 and 10 at the expense of someone you will not play and you free up enough money to sign Hayward without paying Batum for the next three years. I think the Knicks only do this if a small incentive is attached. While we do not need Randle and Toppin at the same position, there is no incentive for us to trade a player in his prime years capable of a double double for a player past his prime who hasn't shown he should be on the floor for more money.

[Vanderbilt_Grad]

There is zero chance of the Hornets adding a first round pick of any sort to get a deal done with the Knicks. Pick wise the Hornets FO might be willing to talk about 2nd round picks but even there IDK.

Players wise they ideally want to move Batum. I think that Rozier and Cody Zeller are unlikely to be traded even though their names show up a lot here on this board. Malik Monk and Miles Bridges are guys that might be moved, but the FO has also talked about liking them a lot.

Basically trading Batum is a 'nice to have' and the FO can bring GH here without doing a bad deal. Stretching Batum would suck, but it's better than trading a pick or a guy the FO wants to keep.

And Randle brings some of the same issues here that the Knicks have with him. He's likely to overlap a lot with a good young PF prospect on the Hornets roster, PJ Washington.

[316Hornets]

How would you guys feel about adding some value to a Batum for Randle trade? I get it, Randle doesn't play defense, but even if you bring him in off the bench, you are filling a need at big with someone capable of - and likely to - put up 20 and 10 at the expense of someone you will not play and you free up enough money to sign Hayward without paying Batum for the next three years. I think the Knicks only do this if a small incentive is attached. While we do not need Randle and Toppin at the same position, there is no incentive for us to trade a player in his prime years capable of a double double for a player past his prime who hasn't shown he should be on the floor for more money.

There's really no place for Randle on our team. We already signed Biyombo and drafted 2 bigs. Him at the 4 doesn't really mesh either since most of his shots come within 10 feet.

[BigSlam]

How would you guys feel about adding some value to a Batum for Randle trade? I get it, Randle doesn't play defense, but even if you bring him in off the bench, you are filling a need at big with someone capable of - and likely to - put up 20 and 10 at the expense of someone you will not play and you free up enough money to sign Hayward without paying Batum for the next three years. I think the Knicks only do this if a small incentive is attached. While we do not need Randle and Toppin at the same position, there is no incentive for us to trade a player in his prime years capable of a double double for a player past his prime who hasn't shown he should be on the floor for more money.

Ask your other Knicks board members who have come here and asked the same thing over the past week.

Why would we be interested in using an incentive to help you clear up your logjam while having to take on a 1 dimensional black hole of a player who has an inflated contract and plays the same position as some of our best prospects?

You can just enjoy your defensively deficient PF’s fighting each other for playing time.

Likewise, what incentives would you add for us to trade Rozier to you so we can clear our PG backlog and get Roziers contact off our books?

Spoiler:

Is this Groundhog Day - or are you just messing with me??

[JMAC3]

One thing about this whole trade Batum or stretch Batum... is that if we waive Batum there is no going back. We can't trade that 9 million no matter what we do. We are stuck with it for 3 years. And it will feel like a long three years.

Compared to if we attach an asset to Batum to get rid of him now it's over. We can recoup whatever asset we lost in another trade or sign somebody to fill that role.

I think eating the 9 million is a short sighted move and I would rather trade a lottery protected first personally than have to be handicapped by that contract.

For what it is worth, I don't think it will take that much to get rid of him at this point. Also want it to be known I am still on board with Hayward signing. We are a bad team and should be trying to add talent regardless if it is in the draft, free agency, trades, overseas whatever it takes to add talent.

[MasterIchiro]

There is zero chance of the Hornets adding a first round pick of any sort to get a deal done with the Knicks. Pick wise the Hornets FO might be willing to talk about 2nd round picks but even there IDK.

Players wise they ideally want to move Batum. I think that Rozier and Cody Zeller are unlikely to be traded even though their names show up a lot here on this board. Malik Monk and Miles Bridges are guys that might be moved, but the FO has also talked about liking them a lot.

Basically trading Batum is a 'nice to have' and the FO can bring GH here without doing a bad deal. Stretching Batum would suck, but it's better than trading a pick or a guy the FO wants to keep.

And Randle brings some of the same issues here that the Knicks have with him. He's likely to overlap a lot with a good young PF prospect on the Hornets roster, PJ Washington.

Voice of reason. This is where I'm at. The media is in a frenzy because a fledgling small market team just b-slapped a powerhouse. MJ with the dagger!

The haters are lining up already singing the same tired song that we're a joke of an organization striving for mediocrity. Their expectation is we should suck for 10 years until we develop a championship team internally then only spend money when it's a superstar who brings us a championship. Nearly every player of significance is overpaid. The Pistons just gave 20 million to Jerami Grant.

We have so much relevant young talent on the roster even before LaMelo and Hayward. Now pundits have to actually do homework, study our games and be able to comment intelligently.

What would happen if Kupchak stretched Batum tomorrow? Put Ainge on the clock and don't send that TPE for anything less than a 1st plus Romeo Langford. Our GM already fleeced the Celtics but the story is not about Kupchak and all the moves he's made since coming here, nope. The narrative is about that mother **** stretch provision. Ainge is about to lose Hayward for nothing. But that's not really the story. It has to always be about bashing MJ.

Did it ever occur that Hayward had a full year to get a feel for how Kemba felt about playing in Charlotte and for JB and with the young core? Maybe Hayward wants to go someplace where he won't get jerked around.

[MasterIchiro]

One thing about this whole trade Batum or stretch Batum... is that if we waive Batum there is no going back. We can't trade that 9 million no matter what we do. We are stuck with it for 3 years. And it will feel like a long three years.

3 years, huh? How does it negatively impact us this first year?

[luciano-davidwesley]

There is zero chance of the Hornets adding a first round pick of any sort to get a deal done with the Knicks. Pick wise the Hornets FO might be willing to talk about 2nd round picks but even there IDK.

Players wise they ideally want to move Batum. I think that Rozier and Cody Zeller are unlikely to be traded even though their names show up a lot here on this board. Malik Monk and Miles Bridges are guys that might be moved, but the FO has also talked about liking them a lot.

Basically trading Batum is a 'nice to have' and the FO can bring GH here without doing a bad deal. Stretching Batum would suck, but it's better than trading a pick or a guy the FO wants to keep.

And Randle brings some of the same issues here that the Knicks have with him. He's likely to overlap a lot with a good young PF prospect on the Hornets roster, PJ Washington.

Voice of reason. This is where I'm at. The media is in a frenzy because a fledgling small market team just b-slapped a powerhouse. MJ with the dagger!

The haters are lining up already singing the same tired song that we're a joke of an organization striving for mediocrity. Their expectation is we should suck for 10 years until we develop a championship team internally then only spend money when it's a superstar who brings us a championship. Nearly every player of significance is overpaid. The Pistons just gave 20 million to Jerami Grant.

We have so much relevant young talent on the roster even before LaMelo and Hayward. Now pundits have to actually do homework, study our games and be able to comment intelligently.

What would happen if Kupchak stretched Batum tomorrow? Put Ainge on the clock and don't send that TPE for anything less than a 1st plus Romeo Langford. Our GM already fleeced the Celtics but the story is not about Kupchak and all the moves he's made since coming here, nope. The narrative is about that mother **** stretch provision. Ainge is about to lose Hayward for nothing. But that's not really the story. It has to always be about bashing MJ.

Did it ever occur that Hayward had a full year to get a feel for how Kemba felt about playing in Charlotte and for JB and with the young core? Maybe Hayward wants to go someplace where he won't get jerked around.

Let's all live in denial and pretend paying Hayward $120 million over 4 years (plus another $27 million over 3 years for the stretch) means we fleeced Boston. There's no winner only 2 losers in this scenario.

I assure you we will definitely be feeling buyers remorse in years 2 and 3 of the stretch, if not year 1 as well. Who knows what the opportunity cost of that will be in draft assets and potential savvy signings over the next 3 years. I see what Presti is pulling off and we are definitely missing a trick.

[JMAC3]

One thing about this whole trade Batum or stretch Batum... is that if we waive Batum there is no going back. We can't trade that 9 million no matter what we do. We are stuck with it for 3 years. And it will feel like a long three years.

3 years, huh? How does it negatively impact us this first year?

Because if we stretch him today... we have to stare at the 9 million on our roster without being able to do anything this season all year. And then two more years after that.

I know we are paying him 27 million possibly still in this scenario, but still a chance we can deal him at the deadline when a team won't be on the hook for paying his entire salary this year.

[JMAC3]

What would happen if Kupchak stretched Batum tomorrow? Put Ainge on the clock and don't send that TPE for anything less than a 1st plus Romeo Langford. Our GM already fleeced the Celtics but the story is not about Kupchak and all the moves he's made since coming here, nope. The narrative is about that mother **** stretch provision. Ainge is about to lose Hayward for nothing. But that's not really the story. It has to always be about bashing MJ.

Then cool both us and the Celtics end up worse off. I think you are too focused on being spiteful about Boston and not focused enough on trying to do what is right with us. I like the Hayward signing, but I would like it a lot more if we found away to not waste 18 million cap space over the next two summers.

Everyone acting like this money has to compound on Hayward deal to make it 39 million.. in my mind if we can dump Monk with Batum I am cool with it. Because Monk is probably going to want 10 million a year+ next summer so it will really be like 19 million+ in my mind. And honestly as of today I am scared **** about paying Monk anywhere near that type of money.

[TBri1974]

I hear you, I don't think you 'want' Randle, but waving players and paying dead cap money for 3 years sucks. We are still paying 6 mil a year for Noah and we could have waved him and been done with it. I think the Randle/Batum trade is a win/win. Maybe you get something serviceable out of him - like when Randolph left the Knicks and played very well - maybe you do not, but you don't have to carry a dead 9 million a year. 4 million of his salary is guaranteed in 21/22, but that is a much easier pill to swallow, and he has value on the floor. But i hear you.

[BuzzCity]

What your thoughts on trading Bridges now? I feel like the second he’s no longer a starter aka relegated to the bench, his value will start to tank. Unless we plan to play Hayward at the 2 with Rozier coming off the bench.

What y’all think? Hayward at the 2 then makes Monk the odd man out as he’d be 3rd on the depth chart. I’d actually be fine with that as trading him is far better to me than trading Miles

[MasterIchiro]

One thing about this whole trade Batum or stretch Batum... is that if we waive Batum there is no going back. We can't trade that 9 million no matter what we do. We are stuck with it for 3 years. And it will feel like a long three years.

3 years, huh? How does it negatively impact us this first year?

Because if we stretch him today... we have to stare at the 9 million on our roster without being able to do anything this season all year. And then two more years after that.

I know we are paying him 27 million possibly still in this scenario, but still a chance we can deal him at the deadline when a team won't be on the hook for paying his entire salary this year.

The 9 million this year is worthless. Who's left to sign? The next two years haven't happened yet and we can still move Rozier before next year or make a consolidation trade at the deadline. We own all our own picks for improvement and it will stay that way.

[MasterIchiro]

What would happen if Kupchak stretched Batum tomorrow? Put Ainge on the clock and don't send that TPE for anything less than a 1st plus Romeo Langford. Our GM already fleeced the Celtics but the story is not about Kupchak and all the moves he's made since coming here, nope. The narrative is about that mother **** stretch provision. Ainge is about to lose Hayward for nothing. But that's not really the story. It has to always be about bashing MJ.

Then cool both us and the Celtics end up worse off. I think you are too focused on being spiteful about Boston and not focused enough on trying to do what is right with us. I like the Hayward signing, but I would like it a lot more if we found away to not waste 18 million cap space over the next two summers.

Everyone acting like this money has to compound on Hayward deal to make it 39 million.. in my mind if we can dump Monk with Batum I am cool with it. Because Monk is probably going to want 10 million a year+ next summer so it will really be like 19 million+ in my mind. And honestly as of today I am scared **** about paying Monk anywhere near that type of money.

There's no way we're adding a talent comparable to Monk if we didn't have that 9 million stretched. So we're sticking with Monk. That 9 million is an MLE signing and Monk is worth more than that to our front office. Rozier gets dumped before that. And I doubt we'd even do that as a salary dump.

[Rich4114]

I really don’t want to see us have $9m on the cap the next two off seasons from Batum. I really hope they find a way to avoid that. Imagine it’s summer of 2022 and our young guys have developed enough to where we can be a contender in the East with one more free agency signing but we can’t squeeze who we need in due to the $9m. Batum will be haunting us from 2016 to 2023. That’s just insane. Didn’t the Mets get stuck into some kind of issue like this where they made a terrible free agent signing that they ended up paying for over a decade?

[MasterIchiro]

What your thoughts on trading Bridges now? I feel like the second he’s no longer a starter aka relegated to the bench, his value will start to tank. Unless we plan to play Hayward at the 2 with Rozier coming off the bench.

What y’all think? Hayward at the 2 then makes Monk the odd man out as he’d be 3rd on the depth chart. I’d actually be fine with that as trading him is far better to me than trading Miles

I actually agree Miles is most likely to be dealt but not before his likely improvement this season boost his value and only if we can add a center or fill a position of need. If there's a deal out there right now where we both add a center and create cap then he will be dealt. But I think the trade deadline is when we can look to move him.

[yosemiteben]

An angle that I haven't heard anyone bring up but that is concerning to me. This is the same owner that sold second round picks for a little cash when we desperately needed talent. I am quite concerned that paying Hayward all this money and on top of that having him spend $9M a year in dead cap is going to result in financial shortcuts in other areas.

[MasterIchiro]

An angle that I haven't heard anyone bring up but that is concerning to me. This is the same owner that sold second round picks for a little cash when we desperately needed talent. I am quite concerned that paying Hayward all this money and on top of that having him spend $9M a year in dead cap is going to result in financial shortcuts in other areas.

Do you think Kupchak calculated internal improvements from our baseline talent? We're very young. Players like Miles and Monk have to prove they're worth more than MLE value (9 million). I'd make that bet. If you're the Lakers and you grab Harrell for that $ it tips the balance because well you have LeBron and AD on a max. So 9 million for the Lakers has quite a different value than 9 million for the Hornets. We're not missing out on any difference makers next year or the year after. And this year our roster is set. We're stocked with moveable assets not cashed out paying the kind of megastars you see on superteams. We enjoy better than league average flexibility. We can and will improve internally via young players developing or via trade. We don't need that one last 9 million dollar ring chaser anytime soon and certainly not these next 3 years.

[HornetJail]

An angle that I haven't heard anyone bring up but that is concerning to me. This is the same owner that sold second round picks for a little cash when we desperately needed talent. I am quite concerned that paying Hayward all this money and on top of that having him spend $9M a year in dead cap is going to result in financial shortcuts in other areas.

On the flip side, before Kupchak, the best 2nd rounder the Bobcats/new Hornets ever drafted was Ryan Hollins. 2nds were essentially use less to us for 15 years.

Maybe Kupchak's Graham pick (and possibly one of the McDaniels/Martin/Carey picks) helps MJ realize that 2nd rounders shouldn't be sold for cash.

[MasterIchiro]

An angle that I haven't heard anyone bring up but that is concerning to me. This is the same owner that sold second round picks for a little cash when we desperately needed talent. I am quite concerned that paying Hayward all this money and on top of that having him spend $9M a year in dead cap is going to result in financial shortcuts in other areas.

On the flip side, before Kupchak, the best 2nd rounder the Bobcats/new Hornets ever drafted was Ryan Hollins. 2nds were essentially use less to us for 15 years.

Maybe Kupchak's Graham pick (and possibly one of the McDaniels/Martin/Carey picks) helps MJ realize that 2nd rounders shouldn't be sold for cash.

In 2 years that Carey Jr pick will look gangster.