hey, at least we arent the bobcats - the other teams thread

[HornetJail]

There is no way you can say anything to defend MWP there.

[captaincrunk]

There is no way you can say anything to defend MWP there.

uhh, except all this:

As opposed to the idea that he viciously attacked James Harden during a basketball game. The how kind of fits, he pushed over with his elbow and it hit Harden. The why, however, is entirely absent. Unless you're gonna give me a reconstruction of the events that would explain why he would do that, I'm going to have to ignore your insistence, no matter how much you call me dumb.

You're not even going to try to say why your explanation fits better? There's only one person who knows what MWP was intending. This court of public opinion bull is weak as hell. You guys are acting like he planned that. The truth is probably somewhere in between, and definitely not premeditated. But you guys are just gonna say the same bullshit over and over, I guess.

[TheKingofSting]

So now the argument is "he's a bad guy! he's hit people before! That means he meant to viciously attack james harden for no reason whatsoever, no other explanation is possible!"

Harden, MWP, and Kobe were all mouthing earlier in the year when the Thunder were blowing the Lakers out in OKC, I have no doubt that MWP had that in his mind when he took that cheap shot. I know you like to troll crunk but come on you are just being foolish here.

[SWedd523]

Again, where's your explanation. At least try to be somewhat objective instead of just reacting like a baboon.

Here I'll make you happy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=so3TR0bc ... r_embedded


at :48 he "demonstrates" what he was doing. At no point in his "demonstration" did either of his elbows go away from or behind his body.

at 1:03 he is doing what he "demonstrated"

at 1:04 his arm reaches ACROSS his body... which was not in his "demonstration"

at 1:05 he swings his elbow out away from his body, which is in no way, shape, or form remotely close to what he was "demonstrating"


Three things are clear.

1: He was celebrating...... like an idiot because he didn't do anything special
2: He intentionally elbowed Harden
3: You're wrong and you're just being contradictory and argumentative to rile people up.

[captaincrunk]

Again, where's your explanation. At least try to be somewhat objective instead of just reacting like a baboon.

Here I'll make you happy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=so3TR0bc ... r_embedded


at :48 he "demonstrates" what he was doing. At no point in his "demonstration" did either of his elbows go away from or behind his body.

Harden's presence interupted the normal flow of the motion, altering it.

at 1:03 he is doing what he "demonstrated"

at 1:04 his arm reaches ACROSS his body... which was not in his "demonstration"

at 1:05 he swings his elbow out away from his body, which is in no way, shape, or form remotely close to what he was "demonstrating"

If hardens body and shoulder more specifically altered the path of his arm, he couldn't have brought it down to his chest like in the demonstration. The demonstration is saying "this is what I was trying to do, and that happened instead". That much is clear to me.

Three things are clear.

1: He was celebrating...... like an idiot because he didn't do anything special
2: He intentionally elbowed Harden
3: You're wrong and you're just being contradictory and argumentative to rile people up.

On 1, yeah sure. Maybe his dunk wasn't all that amazing.
On 2, I still don't buy this. He might have meant to push him off, but it's highly doubtful that he planned to attack james harden like people are implying.
On 3, no you? Whatever dude.

[captaincrunk]

Someone put it this way: "I don't think MWP intended to hit Harden, but he also could have stopped himself swinging the elbow when he felt the hand on his back."

This is likely closer to the truth. A poor split second decision that he didn't intend to bring about.

[SWedd523]

Harden's presence interupted the normal flow of the motion, altering it.

If his presence was enough to interrupt the flow of the motion, his elbow would have stayed in front of his body, not been able to reach away from it.

Swing your arm out. Now have somebody stand right beside you and try again. You can't because they prevent you from doing it.

If hardens body and shoulder more specifically altered the path of his arm, he couldn't have brought it down to his chest like in the demonstration. The demonstration is saying "this is what I was trying to do, and that happened instead". That much is clear to me.

Again, if Harden's presence was enough to alter it. His arm would have stayed in front of his body.

And a big LOL @ using his demonstration as proof that his intent wasn't malicious. How many times have you been caught by an authority figure only to use the excuse that you were "doing something else"?

For example, teacher catches you looking at your friend's homework. You say, "We were just comparing answers".

On 2, I still don't buy this. He might have meant to push him off, but it's highly doubtful that he planned to attack james harden like people are implying.

Don't understand why you seem to think premeditation is necessary. You can murder somebody without premeditation or mens rea

[SWedd523]

I've played basketball many times before where emotions get charged and somebody pushes you wrong, or slaps you too hard, or simply gets in the way and you shove the guy out of the way.

That looks like exactly what happened to Artest. He got too excited and didn't like Harden being so close to him so he swung back in a way of saying "Get the **** off of me" and didn't realize until it was too late that he pulled a standing people's elbow on Harden.

[captaincrunk]

Harden's presence interupted the normal flow of the motion, altering it.

If his presence was enough to interrupt the flow of the motion, his elbow would have stayed in front of his body, not been able to reach away from it.

Swing your arm out. Now have somebody stand right beside you and try again. You can't because they prevent you from doing it.

If hardens body and shoulder more specifically altered the path of his arm, he couldn't have brought it down to his chest like in the demonstration. The demonstration is saying "this is what I was trying to do, and that happened instead". That much is clear to me.

Again, if Harden's presence was enough to alter it. His arm would have stayed in front of his body.

His arm was already on it's way up. Harden altered the path initially, and Artest then changed the movement of his arm. It obviously happened, so I don't see why you'd argue that it's impossible to move your arm in that way. What can be argued is why he moved his arm the way he did after that.

And a big LOL @ using his demonstration as proof that his intent wasn't malicious. How many times have you been caught by an authority figure only to use the excuse that you were "doing something else"?

I don't need to prove that his intent was benign, that's the default! You guys are accusing someone of maliciously, viciously, intentionally attacking another man. You are the ones who have to show some "proof".

For example, teacher catches you looking at your friend's homework. You say, "We were just comparing answers".

The problem is that comparing answers is still cheating (depending on the rules of that particular classroom). It's more like throwing a baseball and someone running into it, and then saying you were just throwing a baseball.

On 2, I still don't buy this. He might have meant to push him off, but it's highly doubtful that he planned to attack james harden like people are implying.

Don't understand why you seem to think premeditation is necessary. You can murder somebody without premeditation or mens rea

Because in ethics (yes, this is obviously an issue of ethics) intentions matter. If he didn't intend to hurt Harden that should be weighed in how we judge the action.

[captaincrunk]

I've played basketball many times before where emotions get charged and somebody pushes you wrong, or slaps you too hard, or simply gets in the way and you shove the guy out of the way.

That looks like exactly what happened to Artest. He got too excited and didn't like Harden being so close to him so he swung back in a way of saying "Get the **** off of me" and didn't realize until it was too late that he pulled a standing people's elbow on Harden.

Which is different from saying he attacked Harden on purpose, going after his head and intending to cause injury, like a "thug". Honestly, Artest is not a thug at all. He changed his name to world peace, what kind of street cred does that get you? He's just not very good at regulating his actions.

When Bynum decked barea, THAT was a dick move, a thug move. That was obvious, and born of frustration. There wasn't any of that sort of thing here. The score was within like 3 points, I think the Lakers might have even had a lead at that point in the game.

[TheKingofSting]

As Charles Barkley would say the Thunder should have put Cole Aldrich in to elbow the hell out of Kobe, if you hit one of my players then one of my players is going to knock the hell out of one of yours!

[Benjamin Linus]

Regardless of how the league will view this and what has to be proven to warrant the repercussions he will receive, and even taking his past out of the equation, from a realistic/human stand point that was a malicious and despicable move.

He knew Harden was right there (they bumped into each other) and then purposely elbowed him (you don't swing your elbow like that at head-level and with that much force unless your intent was to strike something). Why? I have no idea what goes though MWP's crazy brain, but the average person wouldn't have done such a thing.

[SWedd523]

His arm was already on it's way up. Harden altered the path initially, and Artest then changed the movement of his arm. It obviously happened, so I don't see why you'd argue that it's impossible to move your arm in that way. What can be argued is why he moved his arm the way he did after that.

That's exactly what I'm arguing. I can see how Harden's presence would push Artest's arm forward across his body. Harden's presence should have prevented him from moving his arm backwards away from his body.

I don't need to prove that his intent was benign, that's the default! You guys are accusing someone of maliciously, viciously, intentionally attacking another man. You are the ones who have to show some "proof".

You're a philosophy major, not a defense attorney. But if you want to play that game. Video "evidence" and thousands of witnesses are usually enough to get a win for the prosecution.

The problem is that comparing answers is still cheating (depending on the rules of that particular classroom). It's more like throwing a baseball and someone running into it, and then saying you were just throwing a baseball.

There is no problem. Elbowing somebody in the head is a flagrant, no matter what the intention is. So it's still "cheating". You're trying to say that there is only two options. He set out with the goal to elbow him OR accidentally elbowed him. By doing that, you're forgetting something called "the heat of the moment"

Because in ethics (yes, this is obviously an issue of ethics) intentions matter. If he didn't intend to hurt Harden that should be weighed in how we judge the action.

If it were an accident. Which it isn't.

[SWedd523]

I've played basketball many times before where emotions get charged and somebody pushes you wrong, or slaps you too hard, or simply gets in the way and you shove the guy out of the way.

That looks like exactly what happened to Artest. He got too excited and didn't like Harden being so close to him so he swung back in a way of saying "Get the **** off of me" and didn't realize until it was too late that he pulled a standing people's elbow on Harden.

Which is different from saying he attacked Harden on purpose, going after his head and intending to cause injury, like a "thug". Honestly, Artest is not a thug at all. He changed his name to world peace, what kind of street cred does that get you? He's just not very good at regulating his actions.

When Bynum decked barea, THAT was a dick move, a thug move. That was obvious, and born of frustration. There wasn't any of that sort of thing here. The score was within like 3 points, I think the Lakers might have even had a lead at that point in the game.

I never said he planned it out beforehand. Your reading comprehension is lacking today.

[captaincrunk]

I've played basketball many times before where emotions get charged and somebody pushes you wrong, or slaps you too hard, or simply gets in the way and you shove the guy out of the way.

That looks like exactly what happened to Artest. He got too excited and didn't like Harden being so close to him so he swung back in a way of saying "Get the **** off of me" and didn't realize until it was too late that he pulled a standing people's elbow on Harden.

Which is different from saying he attacked Harden on purpose, going after his head and intending to cause injury, like a "thug". Honestly, Artest is not a thug at all. He changed his name to world peace, what kind of street cred does that get you? He's just not very good at regulating his actions.

When Bynum decked barea, THAT was a dick move, a thug move. That was obvious, and born of frustration. There wasn't any of that sort of thing here. The score was within like 3 points, I think the Lakers might have even had a lead at that point in the game.

I never said he planned it out beforehand. Your reading comprehension is lacking today.

No I've read your posts. Other people are saying that. A lot of them, otherwise I wouldn't be posting these things.

[fatlever]

crunk i am beginning to think that you just take the contrary opinion on all topics just to argue. why are you trying to defend artest? forget it, i don't care.

[SWedd523]

Just because other people think that doesn't mean I do. He didn't plan it out in a sense of "I'm going to **** this dude up if he gets in my way". But he did purposely elbow Harden.



I just got my girlfriend to watch the video. She has no idea who Ron Artest is and doesn't care about basketball outside of knowing some of the Bobcats players' names. I think she qualifies as an unbiased third party. This is her commentary:

Why is he laying on the ground? I didn't see anything
Why is his last name World Peace? That's stupid
WOW never mind he just **** that guy up
(her response me asking her if that was intentional elbow) Yes there's no way he did that by accident

[captaincrunk]

crunk i am beginning to think that you just take the contrary opinion on all topics just to argue. why are you trying to defend artest? forget it, i don't care.

Well read the post I made in response to SWeed's anecdote about being frustrated in basketball. Compare that to the accusations that Metta World Peace is a "thug". That's completely baseless and unfair to a guy who has worked pretty hard to get on the right track.

[fatlever]

he has worked hard. i agree that i dont think he planned to take harden out. it appeared that harden got in his way a tad and artest for some unknown reason decided to widely swing his elbow to clear harden out of his way.

but at the end of the day, it doesnt matter if it was premeditated. it was a vicious act that was way over the line. he has to suffer the consequences of his action. i suspect once he calms downs and sees replays artest will feel really bad about what he did and apologize. it was unacceptable for any reason.

[Diop]

gotta be impressed with how quickly these are made.


The Peoples Elbow!