The Marvin Gaye Williams Thread

[JDR720]

If Marvin Williams have a decent tenure in Charlotte, I want for the entire board to ridicule me as not knowing a thing about basketball

what would be considered decent

[Elden Payton]

Marvin should be entering the middle of his prime in Charlotte, we gonna get the best Marvin he has ever been

Cho's MO to a T.

[LofJ]

At least he's only on a two year deal. We may have waaaay overpaid him, but we weren't crazy enough to give him a 4 year deal like the Magic did with Frye.

[mrknowitall215]

If Marvin Williams have a decent tenure in Charlotte, I want for the entire board to ridicule me as not knowing a thing about basketball

what would be considered decent

Decent would be if he fair better than his replacement (whether if it's MKG at SF or Zeller/Vonleh at PF) in net ratings and/or PER. I'm for certain that he'll be the guy like Henderson and maybe even as low as Tyrus Thomas/Ben Gordon levels type of player that the fan base will despise after a few months of watching him play with the team

[Elden Payton]

At least he's only on a two year deal. We may have waaaay overpaid him, but we weren't crazy enough to give him a 4 year deal like the Magic did with Frye.

We overpaid him to ensure he signs a shorter deal.

Stop gap until Zeldridge or VonBosh get to the level required whilst maintaining our flexibility for 2016.

[catch20two]

I would go in on Messy Marv but it would take my excitement of us signing Lance away so I'll let bygones be bygones for now.

[Diop]

Upon further review, McRoberts is a superior player to Marvin Williams. We should've offered McRoberts the same contract that we offered Williams, and I'm sure he wouldn't have deserted us

I think we probably offered that exact contract to McBob, I think he wanted the extra years.

[yosemiteben]

I don't want Marvin Williams trying to do anything more than just spot shooting at this point in his career. His footwork is rather disruptive to himself and he has a recurring sore Achilles tendon

I think he can do everything that McRoberts did, and he is an upgrade as an outside shooter. We weren't regularly relying on McRoberts to create off the dribble, and I don't think that's the role that Williams should have.

Upon further review, McRoberts is a superior player to Marvin Williams. We should've offered McRoberts the same contract that we offered Williams, and I'm sure he wouldn't have deserted us

...or better yet, we just shouldn't have offered Williams that contract at all out of desperation. I'm sorry if it come off like I'm attacking you, because I'm not. The Williams signing was just that horrible that it ramps up my testosterone in a bit of rage

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... 02&y2=2014

If you look at the above player comparison via Basketball-Reference using advanced stats instead of raw numbers, McRoberts is the better 3-point shooter, the better rebounder, the better passer, and the better defender by a wide margin, while they are equal on almost every statistic that I haven't aforementioned in this sequence

Not feeling attacked at all, honestly I didn't look at the advanced stats. Looking forward to doing a little research to learn the differences between them.

[mrknowitall215]

Upon further review, McRoberts is a superior player to Marvin Williams. We should've offered McRoberts the same contract that we offered Williams, and I'm sure he wouldn't have deserted us

I think we probably offered that exact contract to McBob, I think he wanted the extra years.

Maybe, but after drafting Vonleh and already having Zeller, Cho should've been confident in 'his' lottery picks not to overpay for a mediocre player like Marvin Williams that won't be of any subsequent value. If he wanted to pay like that, he should've at least reached for players with efficient net positive production like Kris Humphries or DeJuan Blair

...or even retain Anthony Tolliver who happened to be a net positive for us last season (+4.7)

[Liver_Pooty]

Upon further review, McRoberts is a superior player to Marvin Williams. We should've offered McRoberts the same contract that we offered Williams, and I'm sure he wouldn't have deserted us

I think we probably offered that exact contract to McBob, I think he wanted the extra years.

Maybe, but after drafting Vonleh and already having Zeller, Cho should've been confident in 'his' lottery picks not to overpay for a mediocre player like Marvin Williams that won't be of any subsequent value. If he wanted to pay like that, he should've at least reached for players with efficient net positive production like Kris Humphries or DeJuan Blair

...or even retain Anthony Tolliver who happened to be a net positive for us last season (+4.7)

You should take out the word to liverpooty and stick with the Jeremy Lamb sucks all by itself. Thanks!

[Liver_Pooty]

I think we probably offered that exact contract to McBob, I think he wanted the extra years.

Maybe, but after drafting Vonleh and already having Zeller, Cho should've been confident in 'his' lottery picks not to overpay for a mediocre player like Marvin Williams that won't be of any subsequent value. If he wanted to pay like that, he should've at least reached for players with efficient net positive production like Kris Humphries or DeJuan Blair

...or even retain Anthony Tolliver who happened to be a net positive for us last season (+4.7)

You should take out the word to liverpooty and stick with the Jeremy Lamb sucks all by itself. Thanks!

Lol, thanks for being a good sport. Some people act like a bitch about little sig bets and stuff.

[LofJ]

I've decided that whenever I talk about Marvin I'm going to say his name in a think Boston accent - Maaaahvin with the tuuurhnover! Maaaahvin with tha threeeee!

[yosemiteben]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=mcrobjo01&y1=2014&p2=willima02&y2=2014

If you look at the above player comparison via Basketball-Reference using advanced stats instead of raw numbers, McRoberts is the better 3-point shooter, the better rebounder, the better passer, and the better defender by a wide margin, while they are equal on almost every statistic that I haven't aforementioned in this sequence

Saying McRoberts is better by a wide margin in each of those categories isn't accurate based on what I found. I looked the player comparison link you posted, which is their career numbers, and also their numbers from last season.

Three point shooting:

Career and last year's stats - The advanced stats don't directly address three point shooting, and their 3PT% for their careers and for last year are a total of 0.2% apart. The argument could be made that Josh had a large number of wide open looks because of Al sucking up defenders, which helped bolster his 3PT% this season, and he's never taken a sufficient number of threes in any other season to be a good indicator of his ability - he probably only used to shoot them if they were wide open. Since I haven't watched Williams much, and he may also have taken a lot of uncontested 3s, I think it's probably best to call it a wash on their outside shooting.

Rebounding:

Career stats - the difference in their TRB% is 1.3% in favor of McBob, which is negligible. Out of 100 rebounds, McRoberts will grab one more. Rebounding is basically a wash.

Last year's stats - the difference in their TRB% is 4.1% in favor of Williams, still not a huge difference but cuts against the statement that McBob is the superior rebounder.

Passing:

Career and last year's stats: McRoberts is a far superior passer and has been throughout his career. No real debate there.

Defending:

Career stats - Williams has a career D rating of 109, to McBob's rating of 106. Williams also has far superior defensive win share numbers. I'm guessing that has something to do with McBob's usage in the past, but not sure. Their steal and block numbers are very close for their careers and for last season.

Last year's stats - Williams had a D rating of 110 and McBob had a D rating of 105. Conversely, McBob had higher defensive win share numbers. Not sure what that means, paging someone with superior advanced stat creds.

So at the end of the day, we got a Josh McRoberts double who just isn't as good at passing. Not the end of the world.

[Elden Payton]

Upon further review, McRoberts is a superior player to Marvin Williams. We should've offered McRoberts the same contract that we offered Williams, and I'm sure he wouldn't have deserted us

I think we probably offered that exact contract to McBob, I think he wanted the extra years.

Maybe, but after drafting Vonleh and already having Zeller, Cho should've been confident in 'his' lottery picks not to overpay for a mediocre player like Marvin Williams that won't be of any subsequent value. If he wanted to pay like that, he should've at least reached for players with efficient net positive production like Kris Humphries or DeJuan Blair

...or even retain Anthony Tolliver who happened to be a net positive for us last season (+4.7)

Neither humphries or blair space the floor.

I'd love Blair at 2m though.

[mrknowitall215]

I think we probably offered that exact contract to McBob, I think he wanted the extra years.

Maybe, but after drafting Vonleh and already having Zeller, Cho should've been confident in 'his' lottery picks not to overpay for a mediocre player like Marvin Williams that won't be of any subsequent value. If he wanted to pay like that, he should've at least reached for players with efficient net positive production like Kris Humphries or DeJuan Blair

...or even retain Anthony Tolliver who happened to be a net positive for us last season (+4.7)

Neither humphries or blair space the floor.

I'd love Blair at 2m though.

Zeller was drafted to be a 'stretch 4'. He should be able to stretch the floor, unless Cho totally whiffed on evaluating his skill sets. You tell me...

[Elden Payton]

Maybe, but after drafting Vonleh and already having Zeller, Cho should've been confident in 'his' lottery picks not to overpay for a mediocre player like Marvin Williams that won't be of any subsequent value. If he wanted to pay like that, he should've at least reached for players with efficient net positive production like Kris Humphries or DeJuan Blair

...or even retain Anthony Tolliver who happened to be a net positive for us last season (+4.7)

Neither humphries or blair space the floor.

I'd love Blair at 2m though.

Zeller was drafted to be a 'stretch 4'. He should be able to stretch the floor, unless Cho totally whiffed on evaluating his skill sets. You tell me...

Maybe he did, it certainly didn't affect our relative success last season.

Luckily we've got such a great GM.

I'm not a believer that prospects should be written off for lackluster rookie seasons.

[mrknowitall215]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=mcrobjo01&y1=2014&p2=willima02&y2=2014

If you look at the above player comparison via Basketball-Reference using advanced stats instead of raw numbers, McRoberts is the better 3-point shooter, the better rebounder, the better passer, and the better defender by a wide margin, while they are equal on almost every statistic that I haven't aforementioned in this sequence

Saying McRoberts is better by a wide margin in each of those categories isn't accurate based on what I found. I looked the player comparison link you posted, which is their career numbers, and also their numbers from last season.

Three point shooting:

Career and last year's stats - The advanced stats don't directly address three point shooting, and their 3PT% for their careers and for last year are a total of 0.2% apart. The argument could be made that Josh had a large number of wide open looks because of Al sucking up defenders, which helped bolster his 3PT% this season, and he's never taken a sufficient number of threes in any other season to be a good indicator of his ability - he probably only used to shoot them if they were wide open. Since I haven't watched Williams much, and he may also have taken a lot of uncontested 3s, I think it's probably best to call it a wash on their outside shooting.

Rebounding:

Career stats - the difference in their TRB% is 1.3% in favor of McBob, which is negligible. Out of 100 rebounds, McRoberts will grab one more. Rebounding is basically a wash.

Last year's stats - the difference in their TRB% is 4.1% in favor of Williams, still not a huge difference but cuts against the statement that McBob is the superior rebounder.

Passing:

Career and last year's stats: McRoberts is a far superior passer and has been throughout his career. No real debate there.

Defending:

Career stats - Williams has a career D rating of 109, to McBob's rating of 106. Williams also has far superior defensive win share numbers. I'm guessing that has something to do with McBob's usage in the past, but not sure. Their steal and block numbers are very close for their careers and for last season.

Last year's stats - Williams had a D rating of 110 and McBob had a D rating of 105. Conversely, McBob had higher defensive win share numbers. Not sure what that means, paging someone with superior advanced stat creds.

Maybe it's just me, but I consider the fact that McRoberts was better than Williams in virtually every aspect (some by a wide margin like AST% & eFG%) and the only advantage Williams have over McRoberts is 3 points per 36 minutes due to a larger usage percentage, I have no choice but to view McRoberts as the superior player

[mrknowitall215]

Neither humphries or blair space the floor.

I'd love Blair at 2m though.

Zeller was drafted to be a 'stretch 4'. He should be able to stretch the floor, unless Cho totally whiffed on evaluating his skill sets. You tell me...

Maybe he did, it certainly didn't affect our relative success last season.

Luckily we've got such a great GM.

I'm not a believer that prospects should be written off for lackluster rookie seasons.

Look at Ed Davis' deal to the Lakers. Signing Williams to that contract is a catastrophe no matter how it's view or construed

[yosemiteben]

Maybe it's just me, but I consider the fact that McRoberts was better than Williams in virtually every aspect (some by a wide margin like AST% & eFG%) and the only advantage Williams have over McRoberts is 3 points per 36 minutes due to a larger usage percentage, I have no choice but to view McRoberts as the superior player

Well I considered each of the stats that I discussed, which you apparently didn't feel compelled to take the time to read. If you're going to ignore them then that's your prerogative, but to continue to argue that based on advanced stats McRoberts is the superior three point shooter, rebounder and defender "by a wide margin" is objectively false.

[Elden Payton]

Zeller was drafted to be a 'stretch 4'. He should be able to stretch the floor, unless Cho totally whiffed on evaluating his skill sets. You tell me...

Maybe he did, it certainly didn't affect our relative success last season.

Luckily we've got such a great GM.

I'm not a believer that prospects should be written off for lackluster rookie seasons.

Look at Ed Davis' deal to the Lakers. Signing Williams to that contract is a catastrophe no matter how it's view or construed

You can believe it's catastrophic if you want!

I don't believe so and think it will be a godsend in the short term for our playoff chances.