Geometry: The Frank Kaminsky Thread

[Braggins]

Who made the decision to take Frank? Cho or Jordan? I think Cody may end up the better player long term.

There were reports before the draft that he was Jordan's guy but Cho said the draft pick was a collaborative effort and I believe him. Our coach is also obsessed with big guys who can shoot to be the high post PF in his garbage offensive scheme, so we've spent 3 straight top 10 picks trying to give him his ideal stretch PF. I think Cho, Jordan, and Clifford are all equally to blame for our drafting woes, although the responsibility ultimately falls on Cho since it is actually his job to draft the right players.

The reports are conflicting. The same person that said that Kaminsky was Jordan's pick is the same person that is saying that Jordan wanted Zeller, but tweeted this during the 2013 draft...

[tweet]https://twitter.com/chadfordinsider/status/349907330642608130[/tweet]

It's all a media-driven narrative to point the finger at Jordan as a ill-fitted owner. Ford contradicted himself by saying live on TV the other day that Jordan forced Cho to draft Zeller while discussing the Kaminsky pick

That definitely may be the case. I don't put a ton of faith into the media reports. I blame the entire front office and view Cho as ultimately responsible. I just thought it was worth mentioning what we have heard through the media. It definitely should be taken with a grain of salt though.

[Braggins]

Frank, Spencer and Cody have to be the goofiest white 7 footer trio in NBA history. probably going to have tea parties while talking about their favorite spongebob episodes.

We need to collect the full set and trade Big Al for Kaman asap.

Al for Kaman and Biz for Hansborough.

[Profound23]

Badger fan here, I like Kaminsky as a college player, don't see him translating to much in the NBA. I hope I am wrong.

I can't believe the Hornets turned down pick #9 in an at best mediocre draft-class:

2015 picks 16, 28, and 33
2016 picks (2 of 3 from) Minnesota, Brooklyn, Dallas first rounders and a 2nd round pick

I am just going to believe this report isn't real. Also, if you look at the draft picks Boston has coming up it's ridiculous.

2016 draft

1st round: Boston, Brooklyn, Minnesota2, Dallas1

2nd round: Philadelphia, Minnesota2, Miami, Cleveland, Dallas3

2017 draft

1st round: Boston4, Memphis5

2nd round: Boston4, Cleveland, Minnesota2, Clippers

2018 draft

1st round: Boston, Brooklyn

2nd round: Boston

[Eoghan]

Frank Kaminsky...a 4 year college player

I like Frank but you keep making me scared of his potential with this "4 year college player" stuff. That's something I would use to debate against a player.

I think this is a fair point. The counter is that he had incredible development in college - look up his freshman stats. 7 mpg, 1 point, 1 board. Contributed nothing.

His sophomore year it was pretty much the exact same thing.

Then he took off. It's not like we're dealing with someone who had four years of ok production that gradually culminated in a NPOY season. He went from could not get off the bench for a 10 and 12 loss, pretty good but not great Wisconsin team, to being the premier player on a championship calibre team.

That's not typically the story of four year players.

that sounds exactly like... Thomas Robinson.

[Rusted]

i mean look at these guys
<clipped pictures, sorry>

Those were some nice pics!

[yosemiteben]

It's all a media-driven narrative to point the finger at Jordan as a ill-fitted owner.

Completely agree.

[yosemiteben]

that sounds exactly like... Thomas Robinson.

True, but their games couldn't be more different. If Thomas Robinson was a reliable three point shooter, he wouldn't have such a hard time finding a productive role.

Thomas Robinson relied on athleticism, whereas Frank, um, didn't quite as much.

[Eoghan]

that sounds exactly like... Thomas Robinson.

True, but their games couldn't be more different. If Thomas Robinson was a reliable three point shooter, he wouldn't have such a hard time finding a productive role.

Thomas Robinson relied on athleticism, whereas Frank, um, didn't quite as much.

There are plenty of ways to suck in the NBA I guess.

[Braggins]

Badger fan here, I like Kaminsky as a college player, don't see him translating to much in the NBA.

Oh man, why couldn't you just lie to us lol.

[yosemiteben]

that sounds exactly like... Thomas Robinson.

True, but their games couldn't be more different. If Thomas Robinson was a reliable three point shooter, he wouldn't have such a hard time finding a productive role.

Thomas Robinson relied on athleticism, whereas Frank, um, didn't quite as much.

There are plenty of ways to suck in the NBA I guess.

So you don't think Frank's three point shooting is a more translatable skill?

[LofJ]

Frank Kaminsky...a 4 year college player

I like Frank but you keep making me scared of his potential with this "4 year college player" stuff. That's something I would use to debate against a player. My happiness in him is that I know he'll be better than Zeller offensively so I can live with that. I blame Cho for the Zeller and Vonleh picks more than this one since he eventually went all-in on this one after logjamming it already since Mcbob.

It's a scary thought. Typically guys that stay 3-4 years in college are who they are at that point. Not that they don't get better, but typically they flat line quickly in the NBA. After a year or two you know what they are. I mean who is the last 4 year college all star? I don't know of one, but I don't follow college too much.

EDIT: Lillard and Duncan on that 4 year deal. I'm an idiot. I still would say that it rarely ever happens. I just don't know the numbers.

And I hate to say this, but we have a player on our roster that stayed in college for three years and hasn't really improved much after his rookie year.

Curry stayed 3 years and has improved significantly since entering the league. So did Klay, Joakim Noah, Millsap, etc. Brandon Roy was also a 4 year college player. 20 years ago that was the norm and tons of great players stayed all 4 years and got better once they entered the league. Your mid 20's to your early 30's are the prime stretch of your career. So until you hit that point you're definitely still developing as a player and on the upswing.

[mrknowitall215]

Kaminsky sold me on his game translating to the NBA in this game...

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PpXYhpSIS4[/youtube]

[Eoghan]

True, but their games couldn't be more different. If Thomas Robinson was a reliable three point shooter, he wouldn't have such a hard time finding a productive role.

Thomas Robinson relied on athleticism, whereas Frank, um, didn't quite as much.

There are plenty of ways to suck in the NBA I guess.

So you don't think Frank's three point shooting is a more translatable skill?

not more than rebounding.

[LofJ]

Kaminsky sold me on his game translating to the NBA in this game...

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PpXYhpSIS4[/youtube]

Towns is also going to be a damn beast. He reminds me a lot of Sheed, but without the crazy edge. Minnesota got lucky for once, they needed it. Maybe we'll get lucky one day?

[Braggins]

Kaminsky sold me on his game translating to the NBA in this game...

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PpXYhpSIS4[/youtube]

Eh, He isn't going to have the luxury three extra years of physical development over the players hes matched up with in the NBA. I'd be impressed if he could play that well against a 22 year old Towns.

[LofJ]

Kaminsky sold me on his game translating to the NBA in this game...

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PpXYhpSIS4[/youtube]

Eh, He isn't going to have the luxury three extra years of physical development over the players hes matched up with in the NBA. I'd be impressed if he could play that well against a 22 year old Towns.

He only has one extra year on WCS, but otherwise yes I would be majorly impressed if he does than against Towns in 3 years. Towns was the consensus number one pick for a damn good reason.

[yosemiteben]

So you don't think Frank's three point shooting is a more translatable skill?

not more than rebounding.

Well when you are 6'7-8" and depend on your athleticism to get rebounds, you better be an insane defender. Montrezl Harrell is basically Thomas Robinson 2.0 and went in the 2nd round.

[JDR720]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ulSWLjUeOQ[/youtube]

[Braggins]

I realized that I'm not nearly as upset about picking Frank as I am about the Batum trade. Zeller, Kaminsky, Biz, and Vonleh would have been a sweet big rotation in two years. Passing Justice is still silly imo, but it wouldn't seem nearly as bad if hadn't just traded away our best young asset to fill the position Winslow could have with a guy that we probably can't retain after this season.

I think we would be in much better shape with Frank if we had just acquired Lamb and not done any trades. We could have used the extra seconds we got from the draft to offload Marv and Hendo and maybe pick up some scraps. We would be looking something like this:

Kemba/Calderon/Roberts
Lamb/Hairston/Daniels
MKG/Lance/Hairston
Zeller/Kaminsky/Vonleh
Al/Biz

[JDR720]

I realized that I'm not nearly as upset about picking Frank as I am about the Batum trade. Zeller, Kaminsky, Biz, and Vonleh would have been a sweet big rotation in two years. Passing Justice is still silly imo, but it wouldn't seem nearly as bad if hadn't just traded away our best young asset to fill the position Winslow could have with a guy that we probably can't retain after this season.

I think we would be in much better shape with Frank if we had just acquired Lamb and not done any trades. We could have used the extra seconds we got from the draft to offload Marv and Hendo and maybe pick up some scraps. We would be looking something like this:

Kemba/Calderon/Roberts
Lamb/Hairston/Daniels
MKG/Lance/Hairston
Zeller/Kaminsky/Vonleh
Al/Biz

we really limited our teams upside with that trade. if Batum can average 15/5/5 and resigns it wont be that bad, if he walks and Vonleh turns out to be good it would be the worst (and last) trade Cho ever makes.