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2017 All Star Game Moved From Charlotte

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Re: 2017 All Star Game Moved From Charlotte 

Post#481 » by stinger14 » Fri Aug 19, 2016 4:22 pm

Snidely FC wrote:Rotten Tomatoes to the NBA for awarding this game to Louisiana, a state equally conservative to NC on the pertinent gender issues. Totally hypocritical.


Totally agree!!! This is total crap and the media want even mention anything about Louisiana being conservative on gender issues even though the media are the ones who pushed hard for it to be removed from Charlotte

so now we have lost our franchise player (Anthony Davis) that we should have had and the All Star game to the same city that our original Hornets went to.....
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Re: 2017 All Star Game Moved From Charlotte 

Post#482 » by Johnstarks » Mon Aug 22, 2016 5:45 am

Surprised they didn't move it to Portland so they could show how pro LGBT they are
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Re: 2017 All Star Game Moved From Charlotte 

Post#483 » by yosemiteben » Mon Sep 12, 2016 11:47 pm

NCAA moves 7 championship events scheduled for 2016-17 season from NC.

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Re: 2017 All Star Game Moved From Charlotte 

Post#484 » by fatlever » Tue Sep 13, 2016 1:47 am

Good, let the Triad and the Triangle feel some of the pain as well.
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Re: 2017 All Star Game Moved From Charlotte 

Post#485 » by JDR720 » Tue Sep 13, 2016 7:46 pm

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Re: 2017 All Star Game Moved From Charlotte 

Post#486 » by Cheeze » Tue Sep 13, 2016 8:17 pm

And the lunacy continues.

According to a recent survey http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/01/health/transgender-population.html, there are 1.4 million transgender adults in America, a 100% increase from 5 years ago from 700,000. That's a 0.06% representation of the adult population in the US. Certainly, that number is low because not all transgenders will report and the survey doesn't include children under 18. Also, many people that act and dress as the opposite sex don't consider themselves transgender so the survey may not include the great number of Americans that identify as one of an opposite sex but not transgender (men that like to behave as a woman but don't identify as a woman).

Yet the net result is that the numbers suggest a gross overreaction by the City of Charlotte to accommodate an extremely small percentage of the population with a wide-reaching bathroom ordinance that the state of NC felt necessary to grossly overreact by passing a law to forbid cities from issuing such ordinances.

All this great heaving of political and economic will because 4,000 or so people in the entire state of North Carolina might not be able to use a bathroom that is not stipulated on their birth certificate.

It's absolute, over-the-top lunacy. And it only hurts people. This little bitty, minor, stupid issue is causing big institutions to act in selfish, self-serving ways that do NOTHING for the trans community and inflicts incredible emotional and economic damage on the citizens of the state, particularly the larger cities.

Now, some will say that the State should publicly acknowledge that it over-reached and change the law so that it has no teeth. And also that the State deserves to suffer public ridicule and economic pain until it changes its law. Pundits will grind in the press and at the breakfast diner that they can't wait until the Democrats take over the Governor's mansion so the law can be taken from these hate-filled, backward Republicans who supported this egregious discriminatory law. And they'll say let the people suffer until it affects change.

Then we'll have a group on the other side of the issue that says the law was enacted to prevent a single community, even one as large as Charlotte, from creating a precedence that could effect the whole state, particularly government facilities such as public schools and universities. And they'll step all over the LBGT community to get the job done. They'll say they're taking this stance for the safety of women and children, but the truth is the law is virtually unenforceable. They'll claim that there's no morals anymore and that the state going to economic hell in a hand basket is worth the price to stick to one's guns.

So here we are in a contest to see which side can inflict the most pain to make its point. Tell me that's not insane. A pox on both our houses.
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Re: RE: Re: 2017 All Star Game Moved From Charlotte 

Post#487 » by yosemiteben » Tue Sep 13, 2016 10:08 pm

Cheeze wrote:Yet the net result is that the numbers suggest a gross overreaction by the City of Charlotte to accommodate an extremely small percentage of the population...

IMO discrimination isn't acceptable just because as far as we know there is a small volume of victims, so I have a tough time agreeing with your argument here.

And I strongly disagree that trans folks aren't benefiting from this discussion. The more LGBT issues are included in the broader political dialogue and the more visibility into the struggles of LGBT folks, the better for those groups.
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Re: RE: Re: 2017 All Star Game Moved From Charlotte 

Post#488 » by Cheeze » Wed Sep 14, 2016 3:26 pm

yosemiteben wrote:
Cheeze wrote:Yet the net result is that the numbers suggest a gross overreaction by the City of Charlotte to accommodate an extremely small percentage of the population...

IMO discrimination isn't acceptable just because as far as we know there is a small volume of victims, so I have a tough time agreeing with your argument here.

And I strongly disagree that trans folks aren't benefiting from this discussion. The more LGBT issues are included in the broader political dialogue and the more visibility into the struggles of LGBT folks, the better for those groups.


I respect your opinion. My point was that the political maneuvering, specifically the economic battle between the State and private business, isn't helping the Trans group on this issue. They're caught in this like everyone in North Carolina. They still can't go pee where they want - it's LAW, and they're getting hit in the pocketbook.

Charlotte could have chosen to not create an ordinance and Trans folks could urinate where they wanted to. And the State could have not created a Law to now legally prevent folks from tinkling where they want. But Charlotte did and the State did and now we have political polarity...all over the idea that 4000 or so people in the State of North Carolina are maybe being discriminated against. I tell you there are bigger, more important issues to go to war over and this ain't one of them.

And I'll reiterate my stance that ALL laws discriminate. The only way to ensure that no one is discriminated against is to not make any laws. I feel the real debate should be on unfair or unjust discrimination, not any discrimination.

Is denying a Trans person the right to go to the bathroom where he or she wants unfair or unjust? And conversely, is allowing Trans folks legal protection to go to the bathroom where they want unjust or unfair discrimination against, say, parents of children in public school athletics who feel that the law would over-step the boundary of decency? Whose interests are more important to serving the greater good? That's the debate we should be having. That's the foundation of rule-making and law-making.

But a much needed discourse on the issue - which should have had its day in the sun BEFORE ordinances and laws were made - is getting lost in this great, stupid political exercise. We can't have a true dialogue. And that's hurting the LBGT community.
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Re: RE: Re: 2017 All Star Game Moved From Charlotte 

Post#489 » by Mystical Apples » Wed Sep 14, 2016 3:43 pm

Cheeze wrote:
yosemiteben wrote:
Cheeze wrote:Yet the net result is that the numbers suggest a gross overreaction by the City of Charlotte to accommodate an extremely small percentage of the population...

IMO discrimination isn't acceptable just because as far as we know there is a small volume of victims, so I have a tough time agreeing with your argument here.

And I strongly disagree that trans folks aren't benefiting from this discussion. The more LGBT issues are included in the broader political dialogue and the more visibility into the struggles of LGBT folks, the better for those groups.


They still can't go pee where they want - it's LAW, and they're getting hit in the pocketbook.

Charlotte could have chosen to not create an ordinance and Trans folks could urinate where they wanted to. And the State could have not created a Law to now legally prevent folks from tinkling where they want. But Charlotte did and the State did and now we have political polarity...all over the idea that 4000 or so people in the State of North Carolina are maybe being discriminated against. I tell you there are bigger, more important issues to go to war over and this ain't one of them.


This is incredibly reductive.
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Re: RE: Re: 2017 All Star Game Moved From Charlotte 

Post#490 » by yosemiteben » Wed Sep 14, 2016 3:56 pm

Cheeze wrote:I respect your opinion. My point was that the political maneuvering, specifically the economic battle between the State and private business, isn't helping the Trans group on this issue. They're caught in this like everyone in North Carolina. They still can't go pee where they want - it's LAW, and they're getting hit in the pocketbook.

I can see understand that argument, but I think the Charlotte ordinance (and HB2 as a result) did force substantive dialogue over the issues and may well result in judicial action that will clarify the bounds of permissible discrimination, and I think that is something that will be a massive win for the LGBT community.

Cheeze wrote:And I'll reiterate my stance that ALL laws discriminate. The only way to ensure that no one is discriminated against is to not make any laws. I feel the real debate should be on unfair or unjust discrimination, not any discrimination.

That's fair, my response was more that the number of people being discriminated against shouldn't be relevant.

Cheeze wrote:But a much needed discourse on the issue - which should have had its day in the sun BEFORE ordinances and laws were made - is getting lost in this great, stupid political exercise. We can't have a true dialogue. And that's hurting the LBGT community.

Do you think there was more dialogue about LGBT rights in North Carolina before the Charlotte ordinance and HB2? Because I think it is fair to say it wasn't really on the radar of public discourse before then.
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Re: 2017 All Star Game Moved From Charlotte 

Post#491 » by yosemiteben » Wed Sep 14, 2016 5:54 pm

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/college/article101788782.html

Charlotte lost the ACC title game in football. RIP McRory.

ETA: Apparently not just football. No ACC tournament events in NC in any sport.

AP Sports ‏@AP_Sports 19m19 minutes ago
BREAKING: ACC follows NCAA lead and pulls athletic championships out of North Carolina amid backlash over bathroom law.
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Re: RE: Re: 2017 All Star Game Moved From Charlotte 

Post#492 » by amcoolio » Wed Sep 14, 2016 5:57 pm

Cheeze wrote:
yosemiteben wrote:
Cheeze wrote:Is denying a Trans person the right to go to the bathroom where he or she wants unfair or unjust?


Yes, because one of my close friends is trans, female to male, and you would never know. Has facial hair and everything. In fact I didn't know for the longest time. You really want a man who has facial hair forced to use the womens bathroom?

Its absolute lunacy. A child predator/sexual predator is going to find a way in a bathroom regardless of any law. This law protects no one.
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Re: 2017 All Star Game Moved From Charlotte 

Post#493 » by yosemiteben » Wed Sep 14, 2016 6:05 pm

If there is one thing NC loves, it is college sports. ACC and NCAA both teaming up to move events out of the state is a massive PR hit for the NC GOP, on a scale like 100 times more significant than the ASG.
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Re: 2017 All Star Game Moved From Charlotte 

Post#494 » by fatlever » Wed Sep 14, 2016 6:56 pm

why does everyone assume that an abnormal percentage of transgender people are also pedophiles? I've never understood the irrational leap from - a transgender man->woman is now using the woman's bathroom -> that same transgender person might molest my child. Any adult in any bathroom, straight, gay or transgender could potentially be a pedophile. Having transgender people in a bathroom does not increase or decrease that risk.
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Re: 2017 All Star Game Moved From Charlotte 

Post#495 » by fatlever » Wed Sep 14, 2016 7:07 pm

Parents love their children. As a result of that love, many parents develop irrational fears associated with their children being harmed. The key here is the word irrational - as in not logical or reasonable. Irrational fear = the level of fear associated with an event does not equal the likelihood of that event happening.

What is the percentage of transgender people in North Carolina? I assume its very small percent of the overall population. What is the percentage of transgender people in NC who are also pedophiles? I assume its a very small percent of the already very small transgender population. What is the likelihood of a transgender pedophile from NC being in a bathroom alone with an unattended child long enough to molest that child? My guess, probably also a very small percent of the overall bathroom experiences. What is the likelihood that even in that situation the transgender pedophile who is alone in a bathroom with an unattended child actually acts on whatever urges they have? Probably a small percentage.

A small percentage of a small percentage of a small percentage of a small percentage chance of happening.
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Re: RE: Re: 2017 All Star Game Moved From Charlotte 

Post#496 » by BlackOutBuzz » Wed Sep 14, 2016 7:25 pm

fatlever wrote:why does everyone assume that an abnormal percentage of transgender people are also pedophiles?


I think it's more the idea that a pedophile could pose as a transgender person in order to gain access to the restroom of the opposite sex. Like, a straight male could enter the women's room with predatory intentions, but if called on it he could just claim to identify as female.

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Re: 2017 All Star Game Moved From Charlotte 

Post#497 » by JDR720 » Wed Sep 14, 2016 7:42 pm

Andrea Adelson ‏@aadelsonESPN 36m36 minutes ago

Just received confirmation that Orlando wants to host the ACC football championship game, along w/other ACC neutral-site championship events
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Re: 2017 All Star Game Moved From Charlotte 

Post#498 » by JDR720 » Wed Sep 14, 2016 7:45 pm

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Re: 2017 All Star Game Moved From Charlotte 

Post#499 » by countryboi » Wed Sep 14, 2016 8:03 pm

got to tip my hat to Cheeze i see he is still trying to turn a turd in to a diamond even after HB2 has gone off the rails for this state.
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Re: RE: Re: 2017 All Star Game Moved From Charlotte 

Post#500 » by Cheeze » Wed Sep 14, 2016 8:10 pm

yosemiteben wrote:
Cheeze wrote:I respect your opinion. My point was that the political maneuvering, specifically the economic battle between the State and private business, isn't helping the Trans group on this issue. They're caught in this like everyone in North Carolina. They still can't go pee where they want - it's LAW, and they're getting hit in the pocketbook.

I can see understand that argument, but I think the Charlotte ordinance (and HB2 as a result) did force substantive dialogue over the issues and may well result in judicial action that will clarify the bounds of permissible discrimination, and I think that is something that will be a massive win for the LGBT community.

Cheeze wrote:And I'll reiterate my stance that ALL laws discriminate. The only way to ensure that no one is discriminated against is to not make any laws. I feel the real debate should be on unfair or unjust discrimination, not any discrimination.

That's fair, my response was more that the number of people being discriminated against shouldn't be relevant.

Cheeze wrote:But a much needed discourse on the issue - which should have had its day in the sun BEFORE ordinances and laws were made - is getting lost in this great, stupid political exercise. We can't have a true dialogue. And that's hurting the LBGT community.

Do you think there was more dialogue about LGBT rights in North Carolina before the Charlotte ordinance and HB2? Because I think it is fair to say it wasn't really on the radar of public discourse before then.


I don't see much dialogue anymore, only threats and bullying. And I think the issue of Transgender people using the bathroom has been hijacked for political purpose. The other parts of the law, which I have big problems with, is being ignored.

I seek real, lasting change created from real, constructive dialogue. I care not to force people to have a discussion by waiving a divisive issue in their face. That's how conflict escalates. I care to bring people to the table and talk it through, then come up with a policy that works for the greater good.

Otherwise, it's war. And that's what is happening right now. The first salvos have been fired, and all we can do now is wait for the body count.

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