Sale Confirmed: The Michael Jordan Thread

[Liver_Pooty]

I'm perfectly fine with Jordan as the owner although the product on the court has been mostly awful. He fixed that C-Set nonsense or whatever it was called which was a catastrophe with Bob Johnson. Got the Hornets name back. I think things will be much better on the court after this season, it's just been a wild unfortunate set of events with Miles doing what he did, Gordon fractured a shoulder which seemed inevitable, half the team with ankle injuries, Atkinson screwing us, etc.

Bunch of valid points on the teams drafting.

[Braggins]

I admittedly thought both LaMelo/Ant seemed like potential head cases and they were both really inefficient with multiple red flags. Wiseman was a mystery box, but seemed like he had the best head on his shoulders by a large margin and had great physical tools + some flashes of skill and they needed a center. I leaned slightly towards Wiseman, but with a very low degree of confidence and basically had no idea what the right call was. That was a very difficult draft for multiple reasons. I think I also liked the idea of trading back for either Okongwu or Haliburton. I thought either taking whoever fell between the top 3 or trading back both seemed reasonable and never had any criticism about taking LaMelo even though he did seem like a huge wild card.

That was the covid draft where we as fans had very little to go on and the front office actually got to do workouts with these guys and have the resources of a pro basketball team, so if they really coveted Wiseman over the other guys thats worse for them than it is was for the fans who felt the same, but Wiseman also probably looked good in workout settings, so I don't think it would necessarily be their dumbest draft idea if he was their guy.

LaMelo has also been far better out of the gate than even the draft guru/scout guys who had him as the clear #1 expected. There was one hero on this forum that we all teased who kept insisting that LaMelo was going to be closer to Luka in his first year than the massive project people were expecting, which is also kind of a stretch but still closer to how things turned out than what most of us on here were predicting from him initially.

[fatlever]

To be a good franchise for an extended time you have to be able to do most of these things well

1. Nail your draft picks, especially your lotto picks
2. Have great coaching staff that can develop youth
3. Attract top teir free agents
4. Have great scouting depth that is in lock step with coaching and can identify role players to best fit a system
5. Spend more than anyone else
6. Good luck

Look at those 6 things and rate where you think we rank over past decade. We would be near bottom in all 6. We haven't done a single one of these things at even a League average level. The only thing we've done at a league average level is draft in 2nd round, and even that has had minimal impact. And you could argue that another of our "bad luck" could have been avoided (ie draft sga over miles; Don't sign injury prone Hayward, etc...)

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[SWedd523]

you're making it too formulaic. It's the NBA. More than anything you need a Tier One, All-NBA Top 10 in the league guy before you worry about anything else.

Most of the time even that isn't enough, but until you get that star, you can continue doing those other stuff things well and still never compete.

In fact, having that star generally makes the rest of those things easier. That effect is even stronger with a small market team like Charlotte.

[Hornet Mania]

From Fat's list I'd say you need to check all those boxes for an ideal setup but you don't actually need all of those points to win titles.

You mainly need to find that Tier One player Swedd was referring to either via point 1 (draft success) or 3 (big ticket free-agent), then pair that player with point 4 (scouting proper role players) and 6 (stretch of good luck). That's the absolute minimum imo.

We've seen teams with no free agent attraction win titles, even build dynasties(Spurs). We've seen teams with crap coaching win titles in spite of it all. We've seen teams miss most of their draft picks and then save the rebuild by adding superstar free agents (Miami whiffs on Beasley as Wade's sidekick, LBJ and Bosh join a couple years later anyway). Everyone except Detroit 04 and maaaaaaybe the Bad Boys in 89/90 (if you don't count Zeke) had a legit superstar or two.

The fact we are lacking in all 6 points is the reason our team never stops being a joke, but realistically they're a break or two away from turning it around. Not too long ago the Bucks were a train wreck, then Giannis happened. Same with the Cavs and Lebron, Warriors and Steph, etc.

[JDR720]

I'd figure you need 3 of them, actually some of them counter each other. So you need one or the other.

1. Nail your draft picks, especially your lotto picks
OR
2. Have great coaching staff that can develop youth

You either nail your picks, or have great staff that can develop not so great picks/prospects into good players anyway.

3. Attract top their free agents (I'd combine this with #5, as signing top free agents means you spend a lot)
OR
4. Have great scouting depth that is in lock step with coaching and can identify role players to best fit a system

You either sign top free agents, or you need to have good scouting to find good value deals.

And then you need some luck.

We were actually fairly close with JB. We didn't nail our picks, but we did get lucky (Melo) and developed Miles & the 2nd rounders well.

We didn't have great scouting though, as most of our free agents/trades were kind of bad. And we obviously don't attract FA's either.

There is some alternative reality when we're winning the division this year. We have by far the worst luck.

[JDR720]

Honestly, you can probably get away with just having 2 if you have a high-end enough player. Like the Bucks.

I can't recall any draft picks besides Giannis that have been good. They don't attract free agents or spend a lot of money. But they have Giannis and make good/great trades.

[luciano-davidwesley]

We're at the point where the worst team in the league is pretty much giving away lottery picks because they think they have too many young players, so yeah...

Kupcake and the front office seem to operate like it's the 70's or 80's. Maybe he is the spirit animal of Ted Stapien?

[Diop]

Balls shooting was horrendous in the NBL prior to being drafted, like mkg bad.

[SWedd523]

Honestly, you can probably get away with just having 2 if you have a high-end enough player. Like the Bucks.

I can't recall any draft picks besides Giannis that have been good. They don't attract free agents or spend a lot of money. But they have Giannis and make good/great trades.

Yep this is what I was getting at. Generally pretty crappy organization, take a guy who had less film and experience than Bismack, and he turns into one of the most gifted and dominant players in history.

Some trade luck (seriously, who thought Middleton would be an all star level player?) and.... that's about it

We're in the Home Run Derby and we're happy to be hitting singles and doubles while everyone else is swinging for dingers

[Diop]

Honestly, you can probably get away with just having 2 if you have a high-end enough player. Like the Bucks.

I can't recall any draft picks besides Giannis that have been good. They don't attract free agents or spend a lot of money. But they have Giannis and make good/great trades.

Yep this is what I was getting at. Generally pretty crappy organization, take a guy who had less film and experience than Bismack, and he turns into one of the most gifted and dominant players in history.

Some trade luck (seriously, who thought Middleton would be an all star level player?) and.... that's about it

We're in the Home Run Derby and we're happy to be hitting singles and doubles while everyone else is swinging for dingers

Yep Giannis is good enough to forgive/forget when they tried to find another hidden gem in Thon Maker taking him in the lottery when he was barely projected in the first round

[wilson115]

I admittedly thought both LaMelo/Ant seemed like potential head cases and they were both really inefficient with multiple red flags.

It was also that, pre-NBL, looking at LaMelo then was a lot like seeing Amen Thompson now. The eyes see the young phenom, but the brain won't let me overlook the level of competition. NBL, honestly thought he got exposed a bit there. Still happy to say I was wrong.

[UNCNYC]

It's funny when I hear people who didn't whitness Jordan play say that he was overrated or didn't go against much competition guard wise. Well there is ZERO arguement about the forwards and centers being the best of all time back then but lets look at the guards that Jordan went up against and either torched or played even with

PG - Gary Payton, Isaiah Thomas, Magic Johnson, Rod Strickland, Mark Jackson, Allen Iverson, Penny Hardaway,

SG - Joe Dumars, Reggie Miller, Clyde Drexler, Latrell Sprewell, Allan Houston, John Starks, Jeff Hornacec, Vernon Maxwell,

SF - Larry Bird, Glen Rice, Jamal Mashburn, Domonique Wilkins, Grant Hill, Vince Carter, Tracy McGrady, Kobe Bryant, Paul Peirce

Just to name a few...

I never seen a player take your SOUL AWAY like Jordan did. I hated Jordan growing up and I am a die hard TAR HEEL fan that's how great he was.

[UNCNYC]

And I forgot to include James Worthy, Chris Mullen, Tim Hardaway. Lawwwwd Hammmercy Jordan was gooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooood

and get this, they all double teamed him lmao

[fatlever]

John Stockton and Mitch Richmond snub

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[UNCNYC]

And last thing they played waaaaaay more physical so he had that to worry about as well lol

[UNCNYC]

Not to keep adding players to the list that Jordan dismantled or played even with but I forgot to add because they were my favorites lol

Kevin Johnson, Dan Majerle, Mario Ellie, Jason Kidd, Jerry Stackhouse, Steve Nash, Kenny Smith,

so many more just added these cause I was fans of theirs lol

[fatlever]

Mario Ellie???? One if these things is not like the other.

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[UNCNYC]

Mario Ellie???? One if these things is not like the other.

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Not sure what that means but it's Christmas so everything is joy loool.

Kenny Anderson, and the late Drazen Petrovic.

Merry Christmas 2, you, the GOAT and the board

[SWedd523]

man Drazen could ball. We really missed out on that first wave of Euro greats