Fake Trade Thread #3

[GiggitySmalls]

Zeller Monk and a Martin twin for turner would be a big upgrade for us in the front court. He would fit nice with Washington and Hayward, plus we still keep rozier and bridges.

[Rays Pompadour]

We aren't going to pay both Graham and Monk with Rozier on the roster. Someone has to go before the deadline. I think it will be Monk unfortunately because I doubt our ability to move Rozier for value (unless the Knicks save us).

Regardless I think our best trade packages are either Zeller + Monk or Rozier + Bridges. I'd prefer to make the latter available, but the former likely has more value throughout the league.

Agreed. Unfortunately, Charlotte is a buy-low target. The basketball value of the packages don't move the needle for any buyer organization. If I were an opposing GM, I'd target a package of Zeller/Rozier/Martin for a #2 center and a restricted first round pick. I stay away from Monk, who is unproven (unless, again, you can buy low), and Bridges who has no real position. Both those players would be throw-ins on a larger deal, which is unlikely.

So, will the Hornets be buyers or sellers at the deadline?

[vtime]

I think we’ll regret not trading for Westbrook. He’s a superstar and in the East he’ll be even more of a force. If the Wizards surprise people it will be because of him.

[Rays Pompadour]

Westbrook is due $132,633,438 over the next three years (according to NBC Sports). I doubt Charlotte regrets not taking on that contract. The franchise took a high enough risk with the Hayward deal.

It would have been interesting, though, to see Westbrook in Hornets teal, wouldn't it? The board would have gone nuclear, but it wouldn't have been boring to watch.

[BlackOutBuzz]

Read on Twitter

Woof. Those averages per year are 150% of Hayward's.

So when I saw this I assumed Wall was still out for the foreseeable future; Washington wanting to compete and all... but everything I'm reading says he's good to start the season? The contracts are functionally identical, and the Wizards gave up a 1st?

And I kinda hate the fit for Houston, though I guess it's probably no worse. They got a pick, too; I'm not sure what their plan is exactly if they want to keep Harden. Houston has now had 4 of the top 5 highest paid players (A/Y) on their roster at some point over the last 3 seasons, but only two at a time.

After swapping CP for Russ, and then Russ for Wall, I'm interested to see if they keep this going with another expensive PG next year:

Conley?
Oh no...Kemba?

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[vtime]

Westbrook is due $132,633,438 over the next three years (according to NBC Sports). I doubt Charlotte regrets not taking on that contract. The franchise took a high enough risk with the Hayward deal.

It would have been interesting, though, to see Westbrook in Hornets teal, wouldn't it? The board would have gone nuclear, but it wouldn't have been boring to watch.

It’s a better contract than Hayward simply for the fact he is so much better and it’s a year shorter. Contracts aren’t really bad if the player is actually producing. A healthy Westbrook in the East is better than Hayward and whatever you do with the remaining 14 mil per year difference. Even if you like Russ’ contract, you pay him 2 years and then it’s a major expiring contract that can be dealt for assets right when Melo and PJ should be ready to take the next step!

[Rays Pompadour]

There was a good debate somewhere else on whether to bring in Westbrook or not. I think most favored not trading for him. But most definitely not having both Westbrook and Hayward on the roster at their salaries, age, etc.

I think it would have been neat to have star power on the floor in Charlotte, if nothing more for the pure entertainment value. But the contract would have been an albatross, probably. Batum's expiring brought nothing in return, so I question the value of such products.

[luciano-davidwesley]

Batum's expiring brought nothing in return, so I question the value of such products.

That is because our genius front office decided to turn it into a liability rather than an asset. We can only blame ourselves there.

[James Gatz]

Batum's expiring brought nothing in return, so I question the value of such products.

That is because our genius front office decided to turn it into a liability rather than an asset. We can only blame ourselves there.

Still it's worth noting that due to shorter and shorter contract lengths that expirings don't really have the value they did 5-10 years ago.

[BigSlam]

...A healthy Westbrook in the East is better than Hayward and whatever you do with the remaining 14 mil per year difference.

If people freaked out over the $9mil of dead cap generated from the Batum carry over there would be a complete meltdown at a $14mil gap being created.


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[BeesWax]

Batum's expiring brought nothing in return, so I question the value of such products.

That is because our genius front office decided to turn it into a liability rather than an asset. We can only blame ourselves there.

Still it's worth noting that due to shorter and shorter contract lengths that expirings don't really have the value they did 5-10 years ago.

The contract length thing has turned their value into trade deadline value. During the offseason they don't have the same pull as when a team is massively underperforming and wants to get out of a contract and hit the reset button the coming offseason. Batum would have had his most value likely at the deadline this year. Some team looking to get out of a multiyear deal and hit the reset button would have been the one to target. There is always the chance that nobody would be looking to do that but it is the best time to move that deal. They buyout half a year of his worthlessness and we get something for taking on a longer deal.

[James Gatz]

That is because our genius front office decided to turn it into a liability rather than an asset. We can only blame ourselves there.

Still it's worth noting that due to shorter and shorter contract lengths that expirings don't really have the value they did 5-10 years ago.

The contract length thing has turned their value into trade deadline value. During the offseason they don't have the same pull as when a team is massively underperforming and wants to get out of a contract and hit the reset button the coming offseason. Batum would have had his most value likely at the deadline this year. Some team looking to get out of a multiyear deal and hit the reset button would have been the one to target. There is always the chance that nobody would be looking to do that but it is the best time to move that deal. They buyout half a year of his worthlessness and we get something for taking on a longer deal.

It's possible that expirings have more value at the deadline but wasn't true for us last year. Marvin was a legit rotation guy on an expiring and didn't get any offers. MKG had less value but was an expiring as well. You can make the argument that we were prioritizing FA but that goes against everything the FO has said. Seemingly only made a splash when Hayward decided to opt out. I believe if we could have added long term salary to add a 1st for either Marv or MKG we would have done it. I don't think it was on the table.

The Danny Green for Horford only netted one 2025 1st and that was adding two additional years.

My whole point is that seeing a big expiring as an strong asset isn't really the case anymore.

[fox2jk]

Rozier and Monk


for Aldridge

[James Gatz]

Rozier and Monk


for Aldridge

I don't think the Spurs would do it. It would have to be Bridges + Monk and even then they ask for Cody over Rozier.

[fox2jk]

Rozier and Monk


for Aldridge

I don't think the Spurs would do it. It would have to be Bridges + Monk and even then they ask for Cody over Rozier.

Spurs are in rebuild mode. Aldridge and DeRozen are being shopped and it wont take much to give them up so I think they might consider..

[James Gatz]

Rozier and Monk


for Aldridge

I don't think the Spurs would do it. It would have to be Bridges + Monk and even then they ask for Cody over Rozier.

Spurs are in rebuild mode. Aldridge and DeRozen are being shopped and it wont take much to give them up so I think they might consider..

Monk doesn't have much value and Rozier is considered a negative asset anywhere that isn't this hornets board. LMA can certainly be had but we'd need to offer up real assets. I don't think it's worth giving up a promising young guy or a 1st for a 35 year-old big man.

[LofJ]

At the Hive suggested a trade of Zeller and Monk for Gary Harris and a protected 2022 1st. I love it, I'd hate to see Monk (and Zeller) go, but if Monk doesn't impress early on, it's best for both him and the team to explore a trade.

[MasterIchiro]

By the time the deadline arrives Rozier will be close to finishing the second year of his three year deal. The team that would be acquiring him will have to pay his prorated salary this year and only 17.9 next year. The market paid Jerami Grant 20 million over 3 years. Rozier is a better player than Grant so Rozier holds above market value. Kupchak benefits by waiting further into Rozier's contract. Monk has too much upside to sell low as filler. Including him has no impact on return. Let's just roll with our current players and see if they can raise their stock by the deadline. I think we've seen the last of significant trades until the deadline. This off-season saw big time player movement and now we're in the experimentation and evaluation phase. Assessments of players based on prior years will not drive the market. New assessments will inform a new market. I think the best we can do is set targets for acquisitions before determining and proposing fair market returns. I have potential targets as:

Guards: Oladipo, LaVine, Hield, Levert
Centers: Turner, Allen, Bagley, Wendell Carter Jr., Drummond, Gobert

If you could submit to Kupchak a list of top 10 targets, what does it look like? I'm leaving off vets like Derozan and Aldridge as I think Hayward is satisfactory as our franchise vet.

[Chapelchilla]

By the time the deadline arrives Rozier will be close to finishing the second year of his three year deal. The team that would be acquiring him will have to pay his prorated salary this year and only 17.9 next year. The market paid Jerami Grant 20 million over 3 years. Rozier is a better player than Grant so Rozier holds above market value. Kupchak benefits by waiting further into Rozier's contract. Monk has too much upside to sell low as filler. Including him has no impact on return. Let's just roll with our current players and see if they can raise their stock by the deadline. I think we've seen the last of significant trades until the deadline. This off-season saw big time player movement and now we're in the experimentation and evaluation phase. Assessments of players based on prior years will not drive the market. New assessments will inform a new market. I think the best we can do is set targets for acquisitions before determining and proposing fair market returns. I have potential targets as:

Guards: Oladipo, LaVine, Hield, Levert
Centers: Turner, Allen, Bagley, Wendell Carter Jr., Drummond, Gobert

If you could submit to Kupchak a list of top 10 targets, what does it look like? I'm leaving off vets like Derozan and Aldridge as I think Hayward is satisfactory as our franchise vet.

I think that may be the plan. We probably need Rozier around for awhile to show Ball the ropes or awhile too. They also need to see if Carey is playable first. If he is good then 2 guard would be more important then Center.

[MasterIchiro]

By the time the deadline arrives Rozier will be close to finishing the second year of his three year deal. The team that would be acquiring him will have to pay his prorated salary this year and only 17.9 next year. The market paid Jerami Grant 20 million over 3 years. Rozier is a better player than Grant so Rozier holds above market value. Kupchak benefits by waiting further into Rozier's contract. Monk has too much upside to sell low as filler. Including him has no impact on return. Let's just roll with our current players and see if they can raise their stock by the deadline. I think we've seen the last of significant trades until the deadline. This off-season saw big time player movement and now we're in the experimentation and evaluation phase. Assessments of players based on prior years will not drive the market. New assessments will inform a new market. I think the best we can do is set targets for acquisitions before determining and proposing fair market returns. I have potential targets as:

Guards: Oladipo, LaVine, Hield, Levert
Centers: Turner, Allen, Bagley, Wendell Carter Jr., Drummond, Gobert

If you could submit to Kupchak a list of top 10 targets, what does it look like? I'm leaving off vets like Derozan and Aldridge as I think Hayward is satisfactory as our franchise vet.

I think that may be the plan. We probably need Rozier around for awhile to show Ball the ropes or awhile too. They also need to see if Carey is playable first. If he is good then 2 guard would be more important then Center.

Certainly, there is far too much uncertainty and we need more data based on this group performing as a whole. JB has even said we're still rebuilding and experimenting. Roles are not clearly defined. Minutes are up for grabs. None of us could have guessed Devonte' would go from backup PG to most improved player. I wanted to deal him to the Suns for TJ Warren. Is there a player like him on the roster? Is LaMelo the guy? Is it Carey Jr this time? How about Miles? What if Monk can extend his level of play he displayed through his most recent 1-month sample of play at 17 ppg on 45 and 37.5 while shooting 85% from the foul line and getting more high percentage shots at the rim? What if he spent his whole drug suspension and COVID quarantine shooting the ball and rediscovered the promise of his three point range? How are our guards going to play off LaMelo and Hayward and what will it do to their stock? How will Miles and PJ look in small ball roles? How will Carey Jr. hold up if Zeller gets injured? What if he outscores and out-rebounds Zeller, while standing his ground on defense? Maybe the players that we have make more sense than any outside acquisition given market asking prices. Maybe no move is the best move. What if Devonte' gets even better? Maybe some team like the Knicks gets stupid for Devonte' Graham and offers Barrett. Maybe the Bulls go crazy for Devonte' and offer LaVine and Wendell Carter Jr. What if Utah offered Gobert for Graham to pair him with HS teammate Donovan Mitchell? What if Rozier averages 20 PPG and can be used as a centerpiece for Hield, LaVine or Oladipo?