Bobcats Picks Discussion (#9, #19, #39)

[Badd_Intentions]

Just saw where Burks shoulder is not dislocated. Only bruised. I am really hoping he reschedules his team visit with the Bobcats as he is starting up Wednesday again with other teams. He and his agent have to know Charlotte is one of the highest picking teams looking at him, so it would be wise to reschedule.

I'm at the point now where I don't see anyway you pick Burks over Klay Thompson considering what is on this roster. You have a guy in Thompson who woudl go with Hendo almost perfectly. In Burks you have nearly the same player. Not doubting Burks won't be a solid player, but he would just really handcuff this team for the future. Having Hendo and Burks both out there for our future would not lead to success.

I see your logic here. However I think Burks brings some things to the table that Hendo doesn't like playmaking ability creativity off the dribble. I would agree that defenses could pack it in vs a lineup like that and force them to shoot which neither are great at. I can see both sides, tough call between the 2.

[ohara]

There is a real good chance that one of either Klay Thompson or Jordan Hamilton will be there at #19. I like them both and really like one of them at #19. But not sure I go all the way to #9 for either of them. But Klay is coming on strong now so you never know if he wont in fact work his way up into the territory between 39 and #19 where we find ourselves in a predicament.

[bobcats3wallace]

just how bad is burks outside shooting?

put it this way, which is more likely? burks developing an NBA 3pt shot or thompson developing more all-around skills such as ball handling, passing, defense etc...?

the list of nba guards who weren't good outside shooters coming out of college is very long. many of those guys eventually developed reliable outside shooting.

Based on what I have seen and what Silas has said in these workouts (granted we don't have Burks workout to compare it to) I would say it would be Thompson developing more of an all-around game.

He shoots the ball exceptionally well. He can penetrate to the hoop and get up and dunk. I didn't know he could dunk as well as he can. He's got a terrific outside shot.

That was from Silas following his workout in Charlotte. Which, btw, the kid had some good knowledge of the Bobcats prior to entering the workout. You would think it would be common practice to know about the team, much like you would for a job interview, but you rarely see it. I just think that Klay already has something that this team really lacks with his 3 point shot. He has the size to play the 3 and has a history of being a scorer. I also think that Klay has an ability to attack the rim and also develop that complete game. Defense? That would be the one big issue for me, but having Hendo there at SG could make that less of a liability. Anyway, I'm just really not sold that Burks will ever be a good 3 point shooter or that he could be as good a fit at SF as Klay could.

[bobcats3wallace]

Just saw where Burks shoulder is not dislocated. Only bruised. I am really hoping he reschedules his team visit with the Bobcats as he is starting up Wednesday again with other teams. He and his agent have to know Charlotte is one of the highest picking teams looking at him, so it would be wise to reschedule.

I'm at the point now where I don't see anyway you pick Burks over Klay Thompson considering what is on this roster. You have a guy in Thompson who woudl go with Hendo almost perfectly. In Burks you have nearly the same player. Not doubting Burks won't be a solid player, but he would just really handcuff this team for the future. Having Hendo and Burks both out there for our future would not lead to success.

I see your logic here. However I think Burks brings some things to the table that Hendo doesn't like playmaking ability creativity off the dribble. I would agree that defenses could pack it in vs a lineup like that and force them to shoot which neither are great at. I can see both sides, tough call between the 2.

No question Burks ahs other skills that he would bring. You just really need that shooting touch from one of your SG or SF or ideally both. I'm just one of those that would take shooting over a penetrating F who lacks the shot. You can almost always find a way to shoot the basketball, you can't always get into the lane to score. Either way though, it would not be a horrible pick. Both are likely to be solid NBA players in my eyes.

[SWedd523]

Totally agree.If both Jonas and Biyombo are on the Board at #9, which would you prefer? I think I might be more inclined with Biyombo, but not really sure. Like a lot of the upside of Jonas, too.

You go with Biyombo. He has more upside than Jonas and while he's short, you expect him to at least be a good defensive player. I still (and will always) say that he's destined to be an enforcer big and will only truly be effective playing alongside an offensively gifted big like Bargs, Lopez, Dirk, ZBo, etc.

I'm at the point now where I don't see anyway you pick Burks over Klay Thompson considering what is on this roster. You have a guy in Thompson who woudl go with Hendo almost perfectly. In Burks you have nearly the same player. Not doubting Burks won't be a solid player, but he would just really handcuff this team for the future. Having Hendo and Burks both out there for our future would not lead to success.

Except Burks is clearly the better player.


If you like Klay because he can be a floor stretching wing, why not pick Goudelock (who is a better shooter) at 39? Why not pick Jimmer (who is a better shooter) at 19?

Klay isn't good enough to be a starter. He doesn't have the ball handling ability and doesn't have the athleticism to be a guy you can depend on. His ceiling is a guy who comes in as the 1st/2nd guy off the bench when you need an outside punch a la Redick, Korver, and James Jones. I don't have anything against that because it's a fantastic thing to have, but if you can get that same production at a later point in the draft, why burn a lotto pick on it? That's not smart drafting.


Burks is the only guy, aside from maybe Brooks, that I can see being a consistent 20ppg scorer in the league. He might be a similar player to Hendo, but is that really an issue at this point in our existence? He's bigger, just as athletic, and has a better handle. That's enough for me to take a chance on him and see if he turns out better than Hendo.

[fatlever]

some examples

danny granger

Granger's perimeter shooting has always been a big concern, but he has worked extremely hard to improve his range and become more consistent in this area. He didn't take a large amount of 3 pointers this year (averaging about 1.5 makes per game) so he will likely have to show that his jump shot is solid in workouts, especially when it comes to shooting off the dribble.

From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Dan ... z1OXD9w430
http://www.draftexpress.com

granger jumped from 33% to 43% from college 3 between jr and sr seasons.

brandon roy

The old knock on Brandon Roy was his suspect outside shot. He has always been able to make a difference closer to the basket, but what NBA team wants a shooting guard that whose effectiveness is limited to within 15 feet of the hoop?

Roy is a much better shooter this season, adding range well past the college 3-point line (35% on 20 attempts last season, 39% on 78 attempts so far this season). This has really opened up his game. Where he was once a very nice complementary player, he is now a feared go-to scoring force. Roy will always get the ball in clutch situations for the Huskies and has come through with big plays on numerous occasions, whether it is a contested outside jumper or a beautiful look to a teammate.

From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Bra ... z1OXFlKRia
http://www.draftexpress.com

roy's college 3pt % jumped from 22% to 40% between soph and senior seasons.

burks is only a sophomore. its very possible that if he stayed 2 more years in colllege that he would be shooting 40% from 3 by the time he leaves. outside shooting seems to be something that a lot of elite players dont develop into they are into their early 20s, probably because they never worked on it much in high school because they didnt need to. or maybe they just didnt get the reps in.

[bobcats3wallace]

See I don't see anyway in hell, with his limited shot, that Burks averages 20 ppg in the NBA. Your really undermining Klay's handles. He can get to the basket and can finish. His shot will help set up not only himself, but also Hendo which would really maximize the potential of our current team. I think that Burks and Thompson will have very similar NBA careers. Both will be very solid, but they will both get it done in different ways. I would pick the way Thompson gets it done over Burks considering what we have in Hendo.

[SWedd523]

Kobe doesn't have a consistent outside jumper
Neither does Wade
Nor LeBron, Monta, or even Jack

But those guys are scorers. Not saying Burks is on that level, but he's very obviously and clearly a scorer. One thing scorers do is put points up, regardless of how they have to do it.

And we need that more than a role playing spot up shooter. Klay comes in and is clearly the second string SG behind Hendo. Burks comes in and you know he can take that spot. I see Burks being better for Hendo than Klay is.



In the 10/15ish games I've seen Klay play over the past couple of years, one of his biggest weaknesses is his ability to beat his man to the hoop and finish.....

[ohara]

But Klay Thompson is looking at going in the #17-#20 range. Why not try to take someone else at #9, and then see about getting Thompson at #19? Or if inclined, try to trade #19 and #39 to move up 2-3 spots and get Klay then. I like Klay, but just cant see him at #9. Just think we'd be picking him way too early.

[doc.end]

ok, who would be the worst case player if we moved biyombo in the "picked" group? would it be kemba? vesely? burks? or leonard?

I can't tell. Burks, Leonard, Kemba or Knight. Probably in that order. Veselý is another player I really want but I am biased. Would be one of the better scenarios at leaqst for me.

[Kembastockton]

Personally I believe that this is an awsome problem to have. Burks, Klay, or Brooks I don't care which one wears a Bobcat uniform next season, but I am praying that one of them does. I wouldn't cry if we walked away with Burks at nine and Brooks at nineteen.

[SWedd523]

Klay anywhere from 16-20 is fantastic value. Klay at 9 is not. I actually have him going 10th to the Bucks where he's a fantastic fit but if Burks is still the better player.


If we had a ball dominant PG like Rose, Westbrook, Jennings, etc. I'd most certainly go for an off the ball player like Klay. But with a PG like DJ who spots up every bit as much as he dishes, you want your other players to be able to handle the rock (very reason why Boris gets so much burn). Burks/Brooks are guys you can depend on to handle the ball with confidence and play a pseudo PG role and allow DJ to spot up.

Keep in mind, Jack is likely (hopefully) gone this year, so we reallllllllly need a guy who can put up some buckets with the ball in his hand. DJ and Klay, while nice if your SF or big men put up points, aren't going to be good without a scorer because they don't have anybody to take the pressure off them.

[ohara]

Klay anywhere from 16-20 is fantastic value. Klay at 9 is not. I actually have him going 10th to the Bucks where he's a fantastic fit but if Burks is still the better player.


If we had a ball dominant PG like Rose, Westbrook, Jennings, etc. I'd most certainly go for an off the ball player like Klay. But with a PG like DJ who spots up every bit as much as he dishes, you want your other players to be able to handle the rock (very reason why Boris gets so much burn). Burks/Brooks are guys you can depend on to handle the ball with confidence and play a pseudo PG role and allow DJ to spot up.

Keep in mind, Jack is likely (hopefully) gone this year, so we reallllllllly need a guy who can put up some buckets with the ball in his hand. DJ and Klay, while nice if your SF or big men put up points, aren't going to be good without a scorer because they don't have anybody to take the pressure off them.

If you are looking for a pseudo PG and SG combo player to help DJ, would you consider The Jimmer if we could trade #19 and #39 to get him around #15/#16, or perhaps trade Diaw for the pick? No way I take him at #9, but his scoring, 3 pt range and handles as a PG could be a huge benefit. Would give you a PG to back up DJ, and allow him to play SG also when Livingston plays PG for the 2nd string. Just an interesting idea to ponder.

[SWedd523]

I wouldn't draft Jimmer anytime before 25 or so. Not big enough to play SG full time, doesn't have the vision to be a pass first PG. Meh

[Marino]

I want Burks at 9, if we can get Klay at 19, that would be awesome, but I just don't see him falling that far.

[BigSlam]

Burks is the only guy, aside from maybe Brooks, that I can see being a consistent 20ppg scorer in the league. He might be a similar player to Hendo, but is that really an issue at this point in our existence? He's bigger, just as athletic, and has a better handle. That's enough for me to take a chance on him and see if he turns out better than Hendo.

Bingo.

For me Burks offers a better package than Klay and a better package than Hendo. I understand people being worried that having one makes the other redundant, but I see it as finding out which one really has super star potential and then trading the other one for a shooter if need be to play next to them.

It's the same with the Kemba Vs DJ debate. If the FO feels that at #9 Kemba is on the board and has super star potential, then draft him and trade DJ for some other asset.

Either way, we need to find some super star potential between either DJ, Hendo, Tyrus or whoever we take at #9 (because realistically finding a super star at #19 or #39 is a massive ask).

Short story long: Forget about the skill set of Burks or Klay or any prospect this draft and how it fits in with our current roster. Focus on who has the best chance to have an impact on the NBA.

[BigSlam]

burks is only a sophomore. its very possible that if he stayed 2 more years in colllege that he would be shooting 40% from 3 by the time he leaves.

Burks also shot 35% from three as a Freshman - so the foundation is there.

[ohara]

Can you imagine the Bobcats taking Biyombo at #9 and Singleton at #19? Not sure we'd have much offense at all, but if they are on the floor with Hendo, that would make for a heck of a defensive core at SG, SF and PF/C. I'm not advocating we do it, but I think we'd have the foundation for one tremendous defensive presence on the floor. Would likely need to have a PG who is a true SG (Monta Ellis) and a PF who can score like Karl Malone just to avg 75 pts per game.

And please note, I am NOT advocating this be our choices at #9 and #19. Just that it would be interesting to see it.

[BigSlam]

Thinking that at #19 someone like Hamilton or Klay or Marshon will be available, I'm starting to wonder if we should be looking to take Nikola Vucevic at #9 and then the best wing shooter left at #19?

I'm just getting done watching that Nikola Vucevic footage on DX and can't help but think that there were a lot of dudes all busted up that we passed up on Lopez in his draft class - is Nikola Vucevic going to be much worse than him?

Their pre-draft measurements are almost exactly the same:
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Brook-Lopez-545/
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Nik ... evic-5828/

Vucevic seems to have a great mix of inside/outside and rebounding/shot blocking. Maybe he's the next best big option behind Kanter this year? Vucevic might not have super star potential, but if we got 5-10 solid years out of him at the 5 spot and then lucked out with either Hamilton or Klay or Marshon busting out - how good a draft would that be???

[Marino]

Do you think Klay will fall to 19? I don't think so, I would love Brooks there though.