Not In The Face - The Jeremy Lin Thread 3 + 1

[bws94]

The fact of the matter is when MKG came back and after Lee was acquired, Lin's minutes declined and his role on the team diminished SIGNIFICANTLY.

Actually he averaged just over 23 minutes a night with MKG in the lineup versus an average of 26 for the season as a whole. During that time, specifically, his minutes seemed to be directly related to his scoring efficiency. Three of those six nights he shot 50% or better and, in turn, saw an average of 28 minutes per game. The three other games he shot terribly (combined average of 17.4%) and received an average of 19 minutes per game.

What that tells me, and from what we saw throughout the rest of the year, is that Cliff depends on him to fulfill a very vital role for this team. That is the sparkplug off the bench who can get the offense going if/when it starts to lag, and also provide a scoring punch when necessary. Whenever he's doing that role well, his minutes typically get bumped up. When he isn't, they get bumped down. That seems to logically follow for me... but what do I know?

Those actions, especially after Lee was acquired, is obviously the team saying, "we don't think you're good enough to start/rely on, Jeremy."

Or maybe it's the team saying, we have an established all star level player starting ahead of you in Kemba, but we value you so much that you're the 1st player off the bench and focal point of the second unit offense, receive the 5th most minutes per night on the roster, and have the green light to take more shots than anybody not named Kemba (1st guard), Batum (1st wing), or Jefferson (1st big). That's a lot of respect for a 6th man playing the same position as the best player on the team. Maybe we just have different perspectives though?

Why the F would Lin want to stay on a team that did that, or when the only thing your coach said about you at the end of a 7-game series in which you were at least the 2nd most important player just said, "yeah, he's strong and good at defense."

Maybe he's just a masochist but my guess is because he genuinely enjoys being in Charlotte, playing for the team, playing with teammates he really likes, and is in a good place for himself to finally find some stability after years of bouncing around.

10,000 +1s. Team considerations, team player.

[Roy Tarpley]

I'm sure both of you guys are right but can I just say this as an aside: "I follow Lin closely" is not a legitimare source, will never be a source, and frankly annoys the **** out of me.

When you're talking about your opinion that's one thing but I'm sick and tired of lin's personal mouthpieces on this board.

And please don't go back and find sixty Lin quotes for this specific topic. Don't waste your time I believe you.

Flip, I enjoy reading your comments, you're one of the few posters on here with some good humor.

But it annoys the **** out of me too when you accuse people of making assumptions that we didn't make, then claim that "in reality we don't know how he defines [success]," when there are DIRECT QUOTES from Lin about what he thinks. We're not pulling shite out of our ass. And then you tell people not to quote those DIRECT QUOTES which are a LEGITIMATE SOURCE. If Lin's own comments are not a legitimate source, I don't know what else to tell you.

I'm not even interpreting his comments, I've simply just laid them out there, almost verbatim.

[hood30]

I'm sure both of you guys are right but can I just say this as an aside: "I follow Lin closely" is not a legitimare source, will never be a source, and frankly annoys the **** out of me.

When you're talking about your opinion that's one thing but I'm sick and tired of lin's personal mouthpieces on this board.

And please don't go back and find sixty Lin quotes for this specific topic. Don't waste your time I believe you.

Flip, I enjoy reading your comments, you're one of the few posters on here with some good humor.

But it annoys the **** out of me too when you accuse people of making assumptions that we didn't make, then claim that "in reality we don't know how he defines [success]," when there are DIRECT QUOTES from Lin about what he thinks. We're not pulling **** out of our ass. And then you tell people not to quote those DIRECT QUOTES which are a LEGITIMATE SOURCE. If Lin's own comments are not a legitimate source, I don't know what else to tell you.

I'm not even interpreting his comments, I've simply just laid them out there, almost verbatim.

I was about to reply something around what you stated....How is Lin's direct quote coming out of his mouth not a legitimate source...That was weird reading Flip's comment on this issue...That was one of the most bizarre stuff I've ever read on this forum..LOL.

Some of Lin's statement are also very recent when it comes to his preference of starting or coming off the bench...and to be honest, you wouldn't find many players who are still in their prime stating they prefer to come off the bench than starting, so Lin is simply being normal for wanting to start....As it's clearly understood, they are clear benefit when you start as oppose to coming off the bench.

[Flip Murray]

I'm sure both of you guys are right but can I just say this as an aside: "I follow Lin closely" is not a legitimare source, will never be a source, and frankly annoys the **** out of me.

When you're talking about your opinion that's one thing but I'm sick and tired of lin's personal mouthpieces on this board.

And please don't go back and find sixty Lin quotes for this specific topic. Don't waste your time I believe you.

Flip, I enjoy reading your comments, you're one of the few posters on here with some good humor.

But it annoys the **** out of me too when you accuse people of making assumptions that we didn't make, then claim that "in reality we don't know how he defines [success]," when there are DIRECT QUOTES from Lin about what he thinks. We're not pulling **** out of our ass. And then you tell people not to quote those DIRECT QUOTES which are a LEGITIMATE SOURCE. If Lin's own comments are not a legitimate source, I don't know what else to tell you.

I'm not even interpreting his comments, I've simply just laid them out there, almost verbatim.

Sorry I didn't mean to take out on you what's been an issue for months now. I think I didn't make my entire argument clear on this I'll try to when I get back to a computer.

[bws94]

Most players prefer starting. How much a priority that is for Lin overall is still not clear at this point in his career IMO. Really, what Lin's priorities are is to be determined. If he goes another season/more seasons in his current role on the Hornets, obviously, it's not his highest. If he goes for a starting role somewhere else, it's high. If he goes for a 6th man role somewhere else, it's not that high. We'll see.

[13th Man]

When does FA start so we can all quit speculating?

I think I mentioned this in the Lin transactions thread, but I wouldn't mind it if he stayed here for another year or two. I still think that he can develop his game here without a ton of pressure and secondly I'm curious to see how this team does with a healthy MKG and hopefully with some upgrades to the roster.

I'd like to see him become a starter before his career is over but it doesn't need to be right now imo.

[SWedd523]

Most players prefer starting. How much a priority that is for Lin overall is still not clear at this point in his career IMO. Really, what Lin's priorities are is to be determined. If he goes another season/more seasons in his current role on the Hornets, obviously, it's not his highest. If he goes for a starting role somewhere else, it's high. If he goes for a 6th man role somewhere else, it's not that high. We'll see.

You also need to factor fit into it. I know if I were Lin and the Sixers presented me with a starting offer, I'd say no immediately.

I think we all can agree he loves his current situation right now, right? At least according to his quotes which we seem to be taking at face value. If that's the case, he's going to need something seriously enticing to leave. And that might not necessarily be X starting job. He'd probably need a few components to be worth it

[hood30]

Most players prefer starting. How much a priority that is for Lin overall is still not clear at this point in his career IMO. Really, what Lin's priorities are is to be determined. If he goes another season/more seasons in his current role on the Hornets, obviously, it's not his highest. If he goes for a starting role somewhere else, it's high. If he goes for a 6th man role somewhere else, it's not that high. We'll see.

I suspect a lot of it have to do on how steep of a discount the Hornets are expecting Lin to take so he can come back and have fun with his friends/teammates.

If the difference is around $2-$3 million, than Lin may come back as a Hornets....Anything more than that, I think his agent tells him he has to go...

The player's union would also not be too thrilled if Lin were to take a steep discount while rejecting a $10M/per offer sheet....It's not good for future players when a player doesn't take his market-value money..The Hornets could refuse to pay another player in the future with slightly lesser stats than Lin by claiming they can't pay him more than Lin since Lin has better stats...

Such a player will have every reason to be angry at Lin for messing-up the market and taking much less than he's worth when he was offered much more...and this is why the player's Union always want players to take the best offer and not take deep discount.

It'll have to be something like Hornets offering 5mil-6mil while another team is offering 9-10mil...That would be too much for Lin to leave on the table...even if it's coming from the Sixers, the probability of him taken it is high..and you have Mike D'Anthony in Philly that makes it more comfortable for Lin.


and than of course, Lin will have to double-check on his minutes..That should be his main priority if his preference is to come back as a Hornet as a back-up guard...He needs to make sure his minutes will be safe for next year.

[Flip Murray]

I'm sure both of you guys are right but can I just say this as an aside: "I follow Lin closely" is not a legitimare source, will never be a source, and frankly annoys the **** out of me.

When you're talking about your opinion that's one thing but I'm sick and tired of lin's personal mouthpieces on this board.

And please don't go back and find sixty Lin quotes for this specific topic. Don't waste your time I believe you.

Flip, I enjoy reading your comments, you're one of the few posters on here with some good humor.

But it annoys the **** out of me too when you accuse people of making assumptions that we didn't make, then claim that "in reality we don't know how he defines [success]," when there are DIRECT QUOTES from Lin about what he thinks. We're not pulling **** out of our ass. And then you tell people not to quote those DIRECT QUOTES which are a LEGITIMATE SOURCE. If Lin's own comments are not a legitimate source, I don't know what else to tell you.

I'm not even interpreting his comments, I've simply just laid them out there, almost verbatim.

I overreacted. My bad. What I meant was in my opinion (this is not an accusation) you're making assumptions about where his priorities lie.

[fatlever]

Yep. There is a highly vocal subset of Lin fans, the type that tends to get banned on forums like this one, who are clearly looking for validation in their personal lives through the basketball play of Lin. It makes the Lin forums pretty creepy sometimes. They are also in a constant state of hate with everyone else in the NBA - players, coaches - no matter how much Lin himself might compliment a person, like Kemba.

I think there are a lot of sane Lin fans but most of them have other focuses to their lives and aren't online disrupters.

Here is a good example of some of the hatred that I see on a regular basis from some of the crazier Lin fans. Nothing but hate, insecurity, selfishness and just flat out ignorance on display.

Read the comments below this article...
http://www.foxsports.com/nba/story/jeremy-lin-charlotte-hornets-free-agency-050216

Hey Lin I'm your fan. If you decide to stay with Hornets which you were treated as second class player and citizen, I shall call you an idiot. Stop being a good Christian for a while. Stop being too nice. Do you want to be a Saint?

If this is true from his mouth, I think a new article might come out with a title "A dumb atheletic of all time" and Lin will be included.

Staying with Hornets with the same pay is already stupid. What more agreeing to pay cut? You're not respected there. You were not only treated like a spare tire but SHT.

Jeremy please keep moving until you find a team that respect and give you the chance you deserved! Whatever you do... Don't get cheated for another season!

Lin needs to stop being stupid, business is business. Jeremy Lamb got a 3 year 30 Million dollar deal from the Hornets. JEREMY 'RIDES THE BENCH' LAMB.... Lin needs to take care of himself and get paid and find a team where he's valued.

nevermind the grossly inaccurate statement about Lamb's contract.

Agree. If he wants to be a Christian Pastor or Preacher, then quit basketball.

Sure! Lin can give up his money for Jesus, but not for Hornets!

He said that he might come back. In this article said....all I can say is wow, is he on drug?

But, for his sake, he should leave Charlotte. He can be a starter elsewhere and actually be able to play PG, and perhaps he can finally have a coach who respects him more. When Kidd-Gilchrist comes back from injury, Lin will be relegated to the bench except for garbage time.

So what Lin got from Hornets, only $2 milions per year and if he can not perform down the road who know, he will be put in the dog house for sure.

Charlotte is a small market not a place J Lin can grow and flurish behind Kemba Walker and Nic Batum.

At 27, he should soon reach his peak. Why stay rotten in a team like Hornets?

One day they will laugh at Lin and ask Lin "Are you really from Harvard".

I guess he got hit on head a lot this season thst he totally lose his mind.

How can you prove that someone from Harvard is not a nerd idiot?

If he does not leave Hornets, he will cotinue to be benched even if Kemba cannot produce.

[SWedd523]

All i really gathered from those comments is that I hope many of those people aren't native English speakers

[Roy Tarpley]

I'm sure both of you guys are right but can I just say this as an aside: "I follow Lin closely" is not a legitimare source, will never be a source, and frankly annoys the **** out of me.

When you're talking about your opinion that's one thing but I'm sick and tired of lin's personal mouthpieces on this board.

And please don't go back and find sixty Lin quotes for this specific topic. Don't waste your time I believe you.

Flip, I enjoy reading your comments, you're one of the few posters on here with some good humor.

But it annoys the **** out of me too when you accuse people of making assumptions that we didn't make, then claim that "in reality we don't know how he defines [success]," when there are DIRECT QUOTES from Lin about what he thinks. We're not pulling **** out of our ass. And then you tell people not to quote those DIRECT QUOTES which are a LEGITIMATE SOURCE. If Lin's own comments are not a legitimate source, I don't know what else to tell you.

I'm not even interpreting his comments, I've simply just laid them out there, almost verbatim.

I overreacted. My bad. What I meant was in my opinion (this is not an accusation) you're making assumptions about where his priorities lie.

OK. Well, we know what Lin's preferences are, based on his comments. Now, how he ranks these various preferences -- who knows?

[Flip Murray]

Flip, I enjoy reading your comments, you're one of the few posters on here with some good humor.

But it annoys the **** out of me too when you accuse people of making assumptions that we didn't make, then claim that "in reality we don't know how he defines [success]," when there are DIRECT QUOTES from Lin about what he thinks. We're not pulling **** out of our ass. And then you tell people not to quote those DIRECT QUOTES which are a LEGITIMATE SOURCE. If Lin's own comments are not a legitimate source, I don't know what else to tell you.

I'm not even interpreting his comments, I've simply just laid them out there, almost verbatim.

I overreacted. My bad. What I meant was in my opinion (this is not an accusation) you're making assumptions about where his priorities lie.

OK. Well, we know what Lin's preferences are, based on his comments. Now, how he ranks these various preferences -- who knows?

Exactly. But also just because he stays in Charlotte doesn't mean he has given up on his potential as a player either

[spaceballer]

Guess who's buying a Lin jersey?

https://www.instagram.com/p/BFCHefRA0PR/

[fatlever]

Guess who's buying a Lin jersey?

https://www.instagram.com/p/BFCHefRA0PR/

Hilarious

[sidestep]

Lin doesn't care, relatively speaking, so much about money, but money correlates to respect and playing time. The bigger the contract, the bigger the role on the team. So in the end, the issue really ends up at the same place. Since he wants to start and have a big role, that inevitably means going to the place that values him the most and that evaluation is translated in dollar terms.

[yosemiteben]

The bigger the contract, the bigger the role on the team.

I present Lin's 2015-16 season as my counter-argument to counter this theory.

[kinein]

The bigger the contract, the bigger the role on the team.

I present Lin's 2015-16 season as my counter-argument to counter this theory.

Shots fired.

[hood30]

The bigger the contract, the bigger the role on the team.

I present Lin's 2015-16 season as my argument to counter this statement.

Lin did not have any offer to start last summer...Dallas Mavericks was the only genuine option and they really wanted to sign Lin but had to get the DeAndre Jordan max contract done before signing Lin..

Once that broke-down, Deron Williams became available and he's a Dallas native, so they had to go with him instead of Lin....Interestingly, there are now some buzz that they may try to lure Lin to Dallas this time around since Deron William is so injury prone...Deron William is also opting out of his contract with the Mavs.

But from my understanding, Lin did not have any serious offer for good money and starting role last summer and was pretty-much cornered into taking the Hornets offer....So it was not a situation where he rejected a better contract with bigger role to sign with Charlotte who were offering a bench role and low pay.

It was the best he could do for a 1 year rental and than test the market again this summer ..We should see if this summer would be different than last summer.

[2k15]

The bigger the contract, the bigger the role on the team.

I present Lin's 2015-16 season as my argument to counter this statement.

Lin did not have any offer to start last summer...Dallas Mavericks was the only genuine option and they really wanted to sign Lin but had to get the DeAndre Jordan max contract done before signing Lin..

Once that broke-down, Deron Williams became available and he's a Dallas native, so they had to go with him instead of Lin....Interestingly, there are now some buzz that they may try to lure Lin to Dallas this time around since Deron William is so injury prone...Deron William is also opting out of his contract with the Mavs.

But from my understanding, Lin did not have any serious offer for good money and starting role last summer and was pretty-much cornered into taking the Hornets offer..It was the best he could do for a 1 year rental and than test the market again this summer ..We should see if this summer would be different than last summer.

His point is that pay doesn't always correlate with play. See also Jeremy Lamb 2015-2016.