Geometry: The Frank Kaminsky Thread

[mrknowitall215]

Definitely a Cho pick and of course Jordan would be excited about it after Cho sold him on it for months and it being the right pick. Winslow woulda backed up MKG and played about 15-20 minutes a game while shooting 20% on 3s for us. Lol

The reason why I think it's a Cho pick is because it seemed destined and zeroed in on long before Kaminsky's tournament success. Surely if Jordan was as harebrained as people make him out to be he wouldn't have been on the Kaminsky bandwagon since January, but someone with scouting intel like Cho would because the analytics favored Kaminsky being a lottery pick

[Braggins]

So our terrible defense that you're lamenting was league average. This is the perspective that I find baffling. We've been like bottom five in offensive team stats for years.

We'll be fine defensively. It's been forever since we've been close to fine offensively

What does an average defense and average offense get you? An average team... If we don't maintain an elite defense then we have to be a great offensive team. I don't think there is much chance of us being a great offensive team with this roster and our coach, so we have to have an elite defense. We have to balance out our roster with defense to stay elite on that end. We have absolutely seen that our defense can suffer without the right personnel. We don't have some kind of magical defensive scheme that works great no matter what. I'm a bit surprised that what I am saying is controversial.

I want to keep Biz as much as the next guy, but I keep seeing the same points about how we have to keep an elite rim protector etc etc...I feel like the point that yosimite is trying to make, and the point Ive been trying to make with people, is what have we lost rim protection wise? You say if we dont maintain an elite defense, but it has been proven over the last couple years that by crowding the paint and limiting transition we absolutely do not NEED an elite rim protector. We still have the same people protecting the rim as we had last year for the vast majority of the season, and they did quite well according to our defensive ratings.

Look at it this way, we had a top 5 defense last year and we essentially replaced Maxiell and Vonleh with Hawes and Kaminsky...is that really that big of a downgrade for the next couple years? Id love to have Biz back but the fact is he was not on the floor the majority of the time and is not a NECESSARY component of an elite defense.

So basically we lost nothing defensively yet added what will be IMO a ton offensively. Love or hate the system but the team we have this year is built for Cliffs system...its time for him to put up or shut up and on paper we are a MUCH improved team for his system.

I also dont really get the whole "Mortgaging our future to win now" kick everyone seems to be on...Hawes, who is at best a role player, is the oldest guy weve acquired at 27...the same age as Henderson....whatever, thats a whole nother tangent : P

You guys are seriously downplaying the importance of Biz's 10-15 minutes to maintaining our defense and how big of an issue interior defense was for us at various points last season. Our 2nd unit got torched last season when we started the season with Max as backup center. It was a huge problem. We have better offensive bigs to replace him but we still cant get away with playing 4-5 bad defenders at the same time, which is likely to happen given Cliffords platoon style subs. A Mo, Lamb, Marv, Kaminsky, Hawes, lineup is atrocious on defense. That lineup will score but get destroyed on the other end. We cant just rely on MKG, Batum, and Zeller to be our entire defense for a whole game.

[mrknowitall215]

With Kaminsky on the roster, is it farfetched that Cho might be still "shopping Zeller for wings"? I wouldn't rule out the possibilty, and I'd actually be behind it. I doubt Cho is seriously considering being complacent with Hairston at backup SF. I know they might could just slide Marvin Williams to reserve SF, but Clifford played him exclusively at PF even when injuries mounted at the wing position this past season. With that said, I'm hoping Cho is secretly shopping Zeller or Williams' expiring for another wing player

[MPM]

Thanks! Been a lurker for a while...nows as good a time of any to join in I guess.

Welcome! Orlando City? You living in O-Town?

I actually live about half an hour away in Cocoa but I'm a big OCSC supporter for sure....Originally from NC which explains the rest of my teams ha.

Cocoa's great. I have family in Orlando and New Smyrna and my brother goes to all of the Orlando City matches. I get to Orlando about once a year. Same deal though - my whole family is from CLT, but made their way South over the years.

[amcoolio]

I hope not. We need Zeller now that we traded Vonleh. A lot of teams would love to have Zeller on their team.

[catch20two]

With Kaminsky on the roster, is it farfetched that Cho might be still "shopping Zeller for wings"? I wouldn't rule out the possibilty, and I'd actually be behind it. I doubt Cho is seriously considering being complacent with Hairston at backup SF. I know they might could just slide Marvin Williams to reserve SF, but Clifford played him exclusively at PF even when injuries mounted at the wing position this past season. With that said, I'm hoping Cho is secretly shopping Zeller or Williams' expiring for another wing player

I would trade the Cody outta Zeller. I'm still a little bitter that we had to lose Vonleh because Portland didn't want Zeller. The problem is that there might not be any takers in exchange of a decent vet wing player. Portland traded for Plumlee who had more value and gave Brooklyn next to nothing.

[mrknowitall215]

With Kaminsky on the roster, is it farfetched that Cho might be still "shopping Zeller for wings"? I wouldn't rule out the possibilty, and I'd actually be behind it. I doubt Cho is seriously considering being complacent with Hairston at backup SF. I know they might could just slide Marvin Williams to reserve SF, but Clifford played him exclusively at PF even when injuries mounted at the wing position this past season. With that said, I'm hoping Cho is secretly shopping Zeller or Williams' expiring for another wing player

I would trade the Cody outta Zeller. I'm still a little bitter that we had to lose Vonleh because Portland didn't want Zeller. The problem is that there might not be any takers in exchange of a decent vet wing player. Portland traded for Plumlee who had more value and gave Brooklyn next to nothing.

Funny that you mention Portland, because when I originally read that Charlotte was shopping Zeller for a wing player the first team I thought of was the Blazers, not for Batum, but for Arron Affalo. Like you aforementioned, I don't think Portland was interested in Zeller, but they traded for Plumlee the following day

[catch20two]

With Kaminsky on the roster, is it farfetched that Cho might be still "shopping Zeller for wings"? I wouldn't rule out the possibilty, and I'd actually be behind it. I doubt Cho is seriously considering being complacent with Hairston at backup SF. I know they might could just slide Marvin Williams to reserve SF, but Clifford played him exclusively at PF even when injuries mounted at the wing position this past season. With that said, I'm hoping Cho is secretly shopping Zeller or Williams' expiring for another wing player

I would trade the Cody outta Zeller. I'm still a little bitter that we had to lose Vonleh because Portland didn't want Zeller. The problem is that there might not be any takers in exchange of a decent vet wing player. Portland traded for Plumlee who had more value and gave Brooklyn next to nothing.

Funny that you mention Portland, because when I originally read that Charlotte was shopping Zeller for a wing player the first team I thought of was the Blazers, not for Batum, but for Arron Affalo. Like you aforementioned, I don't think Portland was interested in Zeller, but they traded for Plumlee the following day

He prolly did try to get Afflalo until he found out that Afflalo was intending to opt out. That's when Portland prolly was like "but wait, we'll give you Batum if you give us Vonleh and Afflalo's bad shooting game twin Hendo".

[Elden Payton]

Pure speculation.

[driveandkick]

I just want Bizz back man. We need rim protection from someone.

[Hornet Mania]

I've seen it mentioned a bunch in this thread, but where does the idea Winslow is a bad shooter come from? He shot 41% from three at Duke, it was a shorter line but that's still pretty good. Definitely not awful, and much better than MKG so he would hardly have been a clone. Kaminsky actually shot .002% worse than Winslow from deep on almost exactly the same number of attempts.

Kaminsky is our guy and the Winslow train has passed on to Miami, so I don't want to belabor the fact we should have drafted one guy over the other, but I just wanted to chime in and say they're pretty comparable statistically as shooters.


But both are inferior to Vonleh at 48% (couldn't resist)

[Eoghan]

After looking at some tape I don't think his game will translate well. His defense isn't reliable enough to start consistently at either position, a lot like David Lee. Offensively he's going to be limited to pick & pops and garbage buckets, especially with Al clogging the paint. He could be really nice on the 2nd unit with Hawes or Biz though.

But basically he'll be as good as his 3pt % is.

[LofJ]

I've seen it mentioned a bunch in this thread, but where does the idea Winslow is a bad shooter come from? He shot 41% from three at Duke, it was a shorter line but that's still pretty good. Definitely not awful, and much better than MKG so he would hardly have been a clone. Kaminsky actually shot .002% worse than Winslow from deep on almost exactly the same number of attempts.

Kaminsky is our guy and the Winslow train has passed on to Miami, so I don't want to belabor the fact we should have drafted one guy over the other, but I just wanted to chime in and say they're pretty comparable statistically as shooters.


But both are inferior to Vonleh at 48% (couldn't resist)

Winslow's 3 point percentage is deceptive. He shot most of them from one spot of the floor and that was one of the few places he shot well on the entire court other than the rim. A 67% free throw percentage means you cannot be considered a good shooter. What he managed to do is encouraging for the future, but right now? He will definitely not be a credible threat from 3.

[catch20two]

I've seen it mentioned a bunch in this thread, but where does the idea Winslow is a bad shooter come from? He shot 41% from three at Duke, it was a shorter line but that's still pretty good. Definitely not awful, and much better than MKG so he would hardly have been a clone. Kaminsky actually shot .002% worse than Winslow from deep on almost exactly the same number of attempts.

Kaminsky is our guy and the Winslow train has passed on to Miami, so I don't want to belabor the fact we should have drafted one guy over the other, but I just wanted to chime in and say they're pretty comparable statistically as shooters.


But both are inferior to Vonleh at 48% (couldn't resist)

Winslow's 3 point percentage is deceptive. He shot most of them from one spot of the floor and that was one of the few places he shot well on the entire court other than the rim. A 67% free throw percentage means you cannot be considered a good shooter. What he managed to do is encouraging for the future, but right now? He will definitely not be a credible threat from 3.

Correction: Winslow is a 64% FT shooter.

[MasterIchiro]

I'm pointing out that our defense didn't suffer when Biz barely played in 2013-14, so it's not like he is a lynchpin for our defense. Even assuming our defense will slip, I don't mind our defense suffering some if we can stop having league worst offense every year.

We still need to have a couple guys in our second unit that can defend. We can't get away with Cody being the only frontcourt player that can play any defense at all. We need a SF who can play defense, but ideally shoot as well. Even if Biz is only getting 15 minutes a game that will be huge to keep the flood gates from opening against our second unit. You can't really think we can just completely throw defense out the window and play nothing but unathletic shooters at every position and get away with it. That will just result in us being mediocre to bad at both ends.

Frontcourt defense is a real concern, like you said. That's why I hope the Hornets re-sign Biyombo or maybe take a shot at Brandon Wright or whatever. But Clifford is a defense-first coach and I think he'll find a way to make it work defensively.

I also think adding shooting and offense will pay dividends on the defensive side. An ability to score puts tremendous pressure on a defense, especially if you can score early in the shot clock. And it's on defense that the majority of energy is expended. Al and Hawes are obvious defensive liabilities. Cody and Frank will be fine. And they'll have Biyombo or Wright or whatever for situation substitutions.

Wright is interesting for the MLE

[Hornet Mania]

I've seen it mentioned a bunch in this thread, but where does the idea Winslow is a bad shooter come from? He shot 41% from three at Duke, it was a shorter line but that's still pretty good. Definitely not awful, and much better than MKG so he would hardly have been a clone. Kaminsky actually shot .002% worse than Winslow from deep on almost exactly the same number of attempts.

Kaminsky is our guy and the Winslow train has passed on to Miami, so I don't want to belabor the fact we should have drafted one guy over the other, but I just wanted to chime in and say they're pretty comparable statistically as shooters.


But both are inferior to Vonleh at 48% (couldn't resist)

Winslow's 3 point percentage is deceptive. He shot most of them from one spot of the floor and that was one of the few places he shot well on the entire court other than the rim. A 67% free throw percentage means you cannot be considered a good shooter. What he managed to do is encouraging for the future, but right now? He will definitely not be a credible threat from 3.

Ah, I see. It seemed like I saw plenty of Winslow shooting from several different spots but to be fair I only watched about eight Duke games last season, their tournament run and the games vs Carolina. I think it's still an encouraging sign though, especially since he ended up with the same number of attempts a game as Kaminsky. Batum has a tendency to stick to his sweet spots as well, as do many credible shooters. But yeah, I just was wondering why he got such a bad rap for that on this board. I always figured his biggest flaws were ball-handling and FT shooting which might limit him to a super 3&D guy.

[catch20two]

Wright is interesting for the MLE

Only if we traded Zeller for a good backup PG or wing.

[BobsBuddy]

MY GOD...Can't you guys just let the whole Winslow thing go. Coach K will tell you in private he's a headcase.... Just like Lance. And JDR I'm surprised at You calling Frank FLAT OUT BORing....You idiot... Hes NCAA player of the year and I'm damn glad he's a Hornet..Somebodys got to toot this guys horn....Wait and see when he takes to the court...The TANK is coming...All we got left to do is trade Cody and PJ for TJ and Manimal and we are set...Watch out Lebron...you are about to know what it's like to get stung.

[Braggins]

We still need to have a couple guys in our second unit that can defend. We can't get away with Cody being the only frontcourt player that can play any defense at all. We need a SF who can play defense, but ideally shoot as well. Even if Biz is only getting 15 minutes a game that will be huge to keep the flood gates from opening against our second unit. You can't really think we can just completely throw defense out the window and play nothing but unathletic shooters at every position and get away with it. That will just result in us being mediocre to bad at both ends.

Frontcourt defense is a real concern, like you said. That's why I hope the Hornets re-sign Biyombo or maybe take a shot at Brandon Wright or whatever. But Clifford is a defense-first coach and I think he'll find a way to make it work defensively.

I also think adding shooting and offense will pay dividends on the defensive side. An ability to score puts tremendous pressure on a defense, especially if you can score early in the shot clock. And it's on defense that the majority of energy is expended. Al and Hawes are obvious defensive liabilities. Cody and Frank will be fine. And they'll have Biyombo or Wright or whatever for situation substitutions.

Wright is interesting for the MLE

I like it. I just posted in the cap/free agent thread about using the MLE on a SF and trading for a backup PG. Wright would be perfect for the scenario i proposed.

[MasterIchiro]

Definitely a Cho pick and of course Jordan would be excited about it after Cho sold him on it for months and it being the right pick. Winslow woulda backed up MKG and played about 15-20 minutes a game while shooting 20% on 3s for us. Lol

[tweet]https://twitter.com/chadfordinsider/status/349907330642608130[/tweet]

All you have to do is insert Kaminsky's name here in place of Cody.

Cho scouted. That's all been reported and verified.

Cho controls the data, not MJ.

The difference is, this time MJ didn't resist - he jumped in head first.

I'd love this pick had we drafted McLemore instead of Cody.