Don't Be Hurtin' Lin - The Jeremy Lin Thread 2

[Braggins]

Kemba is averaging more assists per game, per 36 minutes, per 100 possessions, and he has a higher assist % and assist/TO ratio. Lin is shooting worse percentages and is behind Kemba in virtually every statistical category. Your guys delusions about Lin are really starting to wear thin. I'm a Lin fan and think he should get more minutes, but some of you guys need to accept reality.

Careful with the "your guys" as if there is a monolithic perspective.

Fair enough. I certainly didn't mean all Lin fans.

[Liver_Pooty]

[TinmanZBoy]

At first I thought it was just some folks were Lin fans and not Hornets fans, which is okay..ish I guess.

But what I'm starting to realize is that there are (quite) a few guys who are Lin fan and not basketball fans. Seeing people make such irrational statements tells me there is an ignorance with how things work in the "real world NBA" that they simply cannot reconcile with the fact that Lin is not the best player in the league, he's not the best player on the team, and he's not the best PG on the team. He's a backup PG. His minutes will fluctuate just like every other backup on the team.

The entertainment level remains high though, which is always a plus

You nail it...ironically I am a Lin fan, I kinda understand their emotions though, welcome to the Lin world

[Marionettetc]

This is easily my favorite active thread on RealGM

[TinmanZBoy]

This is easily my favorite active thread on RealGM

bashing Byron and arguing about DLo's play are getting boring, huh?

[kinein]

The writing is on the wall, guys. The emergence of Lamb and the extension probably mean no Lin in Charlotte next season especially if they can resign Batum. With Batum, MKG, Kemba and Lamb, you have four perimeter guys needing 120 mins at least. Keeping Lin won't make sense for either side.

This season could still be a success for both sides though. It is going to be a success for the team anyway because of the bargain they got.

I think most Lin fans

Speak only for yourself, your giving Lin fans a bad name. Trying to gain credibility by opening as if everyone that likes Lin agrees with you is bad behavior. Stand up for your beliefs on your own. Don't drag other people into your own opinion.

Sadly there are a number of people that want to equate Hornet & Lin fans as equal to your comments. Which is misinformed, ignorant, and flawed. Your stance is an outlier.

[kinein]

I would like to understand what game you are watching.

Like I said, why are you making it a Kemba or Lin situation? If I was going to change up the Dynamic, it would have been Lin in for Lamb. You have tunnel-vision, where you think Lin can only be PG. Lin can slot into the SG role and play alongside Kemba just fine, sure Lin's been up and down - if youve read my comments I did note that Lin had been in a slump. A lot of players go through slumps, but recently Lin's got a little bit of his groove and swag back and should have been in it with Kemba. Kemba was hustling so were they other guys, but that 5 on the floor I'll just disagree with you, you want Kemba out in those final 2 minutes - I DO NOT.

I'd sub Lamb out for Lin because I think that would have been the most effective 5 on the floor at that point - and I'd have put money on that.

You are being a bit passionate in your generalization and stat slinging, where I just want the Hornets to win the game. As you can tell by the replies you have received you really are on your own with your Kemba axe-grinding. Repeating the same thing over and over isn't going to change people's minds and also deviating from the actual game to go off on a tangent, isn't productive. Its just irrational behavior marked by an inability to perceive context.

If Lin ever starts getting more consistent and can consistently bring back the aggression he displays on and off, sure he deserves a few more minutes, but until that point he is the bench leader. Lin's got to prove people wrong, day in and day out until he convinces Coach otherwise. You leveling negative comments on Kemba isn't helping anyone but yourself and gives other people a negative view of Lin. Lin can't control your hysteria but you can reconsider how you deliver your statements - in a less inflammatory way.

[ChokeFasncists]

there are (quite) a few guys who are Lin fan and not basketball fans.

C'est la vie! Lin is larger than bball.

The entertainment level remains high though, which is always a plus

~lol~ Well, since you (multiple?) are not obliged to click on the thread, I guess that's a positive thing!

This is kind of an ironic complaint because the big knock on Cliff his first two years was that he was too rigid with his rotations. Now that he's getting more creative, Hornets fans are thrilled to see more in game adjustments.

Yea, it's gonna take some time for him to find the right balance.

This is easily my favorite active thread on RealGM

Good luck on getting the top 3 pick!

[RealHusky]

The writing is on the wall, guys. The emergence of Lamb and the extension probably mean no Lin in Charlotte next season especially if they can resign Batum. With Batum, MKG, Kemba and Lamb, you have four perimeter guys needing 120 mins at least. Keeping Lin won't make sense for either side.

This season could still be a success for both sides though. It is going to be a success for the team anyway because of the bargain they got.

I think most Lin fans

Speak only for yourself, your giving Lin fans a bad name. Trying to gain credibility by opening as if everyone that likes Lin agrees with you is bad behavior. Stand up for your beliefs on your own. Don't drag other people into your own opinion.

Sadly there are a number of people that want to equate Hornet & Lin fans as equal to your comments. Which is misinformed, ignorant, and flawed. Your stance is an outlier.

Are you serious? You know what they say about opinions right? Every m**on got one. Unlike you, I will let NBA's advanced stats from last night's game do the talking. Numbers don't lie.

Click on the link to see both ON COURT and OFF COURT advanced stats:

http://stats.nba.com/team/#!/1610612766/onoffcourt/advanced/?t=hornets&sort=OPP_EFG_PCT&dir=-1&Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&DateFrom=11%2F26%2F2015&DateTo=11%2F28%2F2015



Look at both defensive and offensive ratings, it does not take a genius to see which player should be on the court vs. off it. Pay attention to Offensive and Defensive ratings when a player is on the court vs. off it. Hint: higher number for both offense and defense when on the court means you are contributing on both ends. Its not hard to see who was playing well last night. Pay attention to on court NET RATINGs, the higher the better. On the off court NET RATINGs, the lower the better. Also, Cavs guards score 2 when Lin was on the court and 22 when Lin was off it. Cavs also made a huge run when Lin was off the court last night. You can take whatever you want out of that.

[bws94]

Kemba is the more confident and skilled ball handler and for that reason he'll finish most games. Clifford also knows his game best and Kemba knows his playbook better. Cliff said he wants Lin besides Kemba, Kemba said he likes Lin besides him, but Lin doesn't finish the Cav game. OK. Cliff may have a meeting of minds with coaches and others and conclude to go with Lin mostly going forward. The game is lost and done. But Kemba is a solid player who sometimes chucks too much and turns the ball over going for fancy passes. But he's an effective player as well in the clutch in some games and he and Lin together can prove to be a good combo. And add Batum, a winning one in some games.

I'm not big on stats to show effectiveness. One could find stats to prop up or put down any player and they sure don't tell the whole story out there on the court.

[yosemiteben]

Are you serious? You know what they say about opinions right? Every m**on got one. Unlike you, I will let NBA's advanced stats from last night's game do the talking. Numbers don't lie.

Unless you think PJ is twice the positive impact that Lin has, then I think you would have to agree that truths are not self-evidence from advanced stats.

[FantasyBBcoach]

Hi there all the Hornets Fans and Lin’s fans,

Very nice meeting y’all and I wish you all a Happy Holiday Season!!!

First of all, let me say this; the hornets fans and Lin’s fans in this forum are by far the most rationally fans compare to what I have seen in the other forums such as Rockets and Lakers. Therefore I have decided to register and post my comments about Lin which will be posted right after this.

I would also take this chance to introduce myself a little. I came from Asian so my grammar is not very good and I apologize for that in advance.

I am a NFL fans and NBA fans but I actually follow players instead of a team. Players such as Warren Moon, Peyton Manning, Troy Aikman, Barry Sanders, Tom Brady, Reggie Miller, Hakeem Olajuwon, Jason Williams, Chris Webber, Michael Jordan, Tim Duncan, etc, etc. As you can see it has nothing to do with races but rather on the performance and personality in order for me to like/follow a player.

Enough about me which I am sure no one really cares anyway lol. So I will end it right here and I will share my thoughts on Lin in my next post.

[FantasyBBcoach]

As mentioned in my previous post, I will share my thoughts about the relationship in this post but please be reminded that it is solely my own opinions. So let get straight to the point.

First of all, I love the players in this team as they all seem nice and cool, Kamba, Al, Marvin, etc. They all seem to get along really well and have some sort of chemistry developing and I am happy for them.

However, I don’t want to believe but many facts have shown that Lin is actually in the worst situation of his career right now as Lin is not even a one year rental to the Hornets. He is only a preseason rental. He was signed solely because of the preseason game in China. 2.4 mil of salary for one year is well worth it (Assuming Lin will option out and sigh elsewhere next year) for all the media attentions during the trip in China. Under a business point of view, this was a very smart move but as a Lin’s fan, this is the worst it can happen to his very first true free agency. Before we get in to that, let take a look on his previous relationship with the coaches and teams he has been with before.

Rockets – It was all about of James Harden but I would have done the same if I was the coach as James is a better offensive player and Patrick Beverly is a better fit as Harden doesn’t play defense. But Lin still gets a fair amount of playing time and McHale did let Lin run the offense in the second unit and an offensive style with a lot of freedom which really fitted Lin well. McHale did criticize Lin time to time but Lin # still gets called especially when Harden was injured. And they traded Lin because they wanna sign Melo or Bosh which I understand and have no problem with it. After all, NBA is still business.

Lakers – Byron was hired to protect Kobe in the final years of his career. Lin, Nick Young, Carlo Boozer have all became the scapegoats. Byron has been trying his best not to have Lin steal any of the spot light from Kobe. Move such as he has sub Lin out when Lin was in rhythm, he has publicly told the reporters that he doesn't like to run pick & roll which really took the strongest strength away from Lin. In fact, Byron is still doing the same, taking the blames to protect Kobe and that is the only reason Lakers hired him.

Hornets – So much for how Lin has talked to Clifford more than an hour over the phone during the free agency, how the coaching staffs understand his game, how MJ said Lin was the biggest acquisition. It was all a show and efforts for NBA and Hornets to increase popularity in the Asian markets. And I will states my points in the post right after this one. Stay tune. 

[SWedd523]

C'est la vie! Lin is larger than bball.

He cho is. RealGM just so happens to be a basketball forum, so I'd imagine that'd continue to be the focus of discussion.

~lol~ Well, since you (multiple?) are not obliged to click on the thread, I guess that's a positive thing!

Right-O! But why deprive me of the entertainment? This is one of the few places where you can see grown(?) men taking time out of their afternoon to complain about another grown man they don't know getting 20 minutes in an NBA game instead of 25. This is valuable bandwidth right here

[FantasyBBcoach]

Believe Lin when he said money is not a factor as most of you probably don’t realize that Lin is much richer than some of the first-tier and second-tier NBA stars. The endorsements he got and the endorsements he still can get in Asian markets are a lot more than you can imagine. I believe he actually mentioned himself before during an interview which he told the reporter he has refused a few endorsements as he wants to focus on his game and team.

So if Lin is not concerning about money, I believe most of you would agree that he is looking for team where he can call home and let him play his game. And I doubt Lin will discuss or ask for a guarantee minutes. Instead he believes in Clifford and the front office (Which was a big mistake) and seeing himself as a major back up PG behind Kamba and will lead the 2nd unit like he was in Rockets (Avg 28.9 mins).

But after 16 games into the season, if you looking at the Substitution pattern, most of the time if Lin didn’t perform at a star level, he will only get 5-8 mins in the first half and about the same in the second half which I would say Lin’s average playing is around 15-17 mins in Clifford’s mind and I am pretty sure that is not what Lin is expecting. Bottom line is, Clifford or/and front office doesn’t believe in Lin. 15-17 mins is not the playing time a player will get if the coach or front office believe in him. And it is definitely not the playing time for the biggest acquisition.

You can actually tell from all the pregame and postgame interviews. Clifford look annoyed when an Asian reporter asked about Lin’s performance and he will not discuss the detail but simply say he did well and try to end the topic as early as possible. Clifford has never praised Lin in the postgame interview of the games that Lin has an outstanding performance. Instead he gave credit to Brian Robert on the Timberwolves game during his 6 mins of plays and the team efforts on other games. But when it comes to Batum, Kamba or Al, he gave so much praises to these players which I am perfectly fine with it. I understand that it is business. Kamba and Al have been the faces of the franchise and Batum is a keeper so you gotta do everything you can to re-sign him. It makes senses to me on that.

In any case, back to Lin; the only coaches that have praised Lin were the coaches of the opposite teams such as Sam Mitchell, Fred Hoiberg, George Karl, etc. You can argue that Clifford has left Lin in the game few times during clutch time. But in an interview after the Timberwolves game, Clifford sounded like he was trying his best to substitute Lamb into the game as he went 9-10, but Lin did a superb defense on Kevin Martin so he has no choice but to leave Lin in the game. I honestly believe the only reason Clifford left Lin in the game was because he was playing great with the group and Clifford doesn’t wanna interrupt the momentum the team was having so that he can wins some game. Another word, Lin is by far has the shortest leash compare to any other players in Hornets rosters. He has played only 17 mins against the Bulls and got benched in the 4th Qtr right after two superb games against Timberwolves and Knicks? And you expect Lin to build confidence and chemistry under these circumstances?

So why is this happening to Lin once again? Simple, it is because Lin wasn’t in their long terms plan from the very beginning. Yup, not even a one year rental. Lin is only a preseason rental at the cost of 2.4 million for a big ass marketing show in China. Nothing more, nothing less.

To all the Hornets fans and Lin’s fans, again, this is solely my own opinions and I hope I am wrong as I really want to enjoy watching the Hornets like the way Spurs and GS were playing; team ball!!! I hope Hornets can surprise a whole lot of people for being a good team with no super star and make it deep into the playoff.

Lastly, thank you for your time for reading my comments. I wish you all have a wonderful and safe holiday season.

P.S. As far as the Lin’s stats concern, I believe most of the long time NBA fans understand the stats don’t really tell the entire story. The offense looks much better when Lin is on the floor. And yes even with Kamba or Al or Nic or another player. I am not saying Lin is a starter but he surely deserves more credit on the offensive end. However it is nothing new that Lin’s hater or fans of other player will pick on Lin’s performance such as defense, TO, Lin fans are all about Lin, etc, etc. I will discuss Lin’s style of play in the future when I am not as busy.

Bye all!

[TinmanZBoy]

my dear Lin fans, no long essays, ok? too long to read, but ...love you all

[RealHusky]

Are you serious? You know what they say about opinions right? Every m**on got one. Unlike you, I will let NBA's advanced stats from last night's game do the talking. Numbers don't lie.

Unless you think PJ is twice the positive impact that Lin has, then I think you would have to agree that truths are not self-evidence from advanced stats.

PJ played well last night when he was on the floor. Batum and Walker not so much and I am a huge Walker fan. Walker has always been a SG in a PG's body. Once Lin leaves, Hornets will still be without a true PG. Lin can make those half court passes like the one he gave to Lamb last night. Whether you believe it or not, offense runs much smoother when Lin is the PG on this team. Walker would be a great combo or even playing SG but Walker is not a true PG. I don't have any problem playing Walker for long mins on this team since he is one of the better players here, but playing Lin 20 mins when he is playing well is a bad basketball decision however you want to look at it. The team also lost too. It is what it is. I highly doubt Lin is happy right now despite being one of the ultimate team players on the team.

[FantasyBBcoach]

Honestly, you really can see the haters and fans of other player such as Kamba or Nic are trying their best to pick on Lin every way possible. During the Lakers was the defense. Now is back up PG, inconsistent, out of control, etc.

No one will give credit to Lin as part of the second unit that have earned the nick name (Bench Force One) for the Hornets. No one will remember the good game he played that might have earned a few wins for the Hornets as a team. They will even saying stuffs like Lin’s fans are not a real basketball fans

Whatever the points they are making, under any circumstances; Lin's performance so far doesn't deserve 15-17 mins a game. Otherwise the coaches of the opposite teams will not praise Lin if he wasn’t a factor. Clifford substitution pattern is just laughable.

As a coach, Clifford needs to communicate with players and try to build the chemistry and confidence for the team and find a winning formula. You don’t play around player’s minutes like the way he did as you are hurting his confidence. You can tell Lin was once again so afraid of making mistake or bad play, so he chooses to be passive. Unless a coach has already given up on a player which is exactly what happens to Lin.

So much for choosing a team that understands his game. Again Lin is only a preseason rental for marketing purpose to Hornets. Lin’s fans most likely have to wait another year in order to see if he can find the right “Team” to call home.

[HornetJail]

A lot of you guys need to quit playing the victim. If Lin wants more than the 23 minutes he already gets, he should play better. Plain and simple. His 23 minutes is just fine for what he's giving us. I'm happy with him playing those 23 minutes, maybe more if he cuts the turnovers and shoots better from three.

[ChokeFasncists]

Hi there all the Hornets Fans and Lin’s fans,

Very nice meeting y’all and I wish you all a Happy Holiday Season!!!

Hi, nice to meet you

First of all, let me say this; the hornets fans and Lin’s fans in this forum are by far the most rationally fans compare to what I have seen in the other forums such as Rockets and Lakers. Therefore I have decided to register and post my comments about Lin which will be posted right after this.

Guys have grown

I would also take this chance to introduce myself a little. I came from Asian so my grammar is not very good and I apologize for that in advance.

Sorry, can't help! This is classic! No problem!

I am a NFL fans and NBA fans but I actually follow players instead of a team. Players such as Warren Moon, Peyton Manning, Troy Aikman, Barry Sanders, Tom Brady, Reggie Miller, Hakeem Olajuwon, Jason Williams, Chris Webber, Michael Jordan, Tim Duncan, etc, etc. As you can see it has nothing to do with races but rather on the performance and personality in order for me to like/follow a player.

But you have the Spurs next to your handle?

Rockets – It was all about of James Harden but I would have done the same if I was the coach as James is a better offensive player and Patrick Beverly is a better fit as Harden doesn’t play defense. But Lin still gets a fair amount of playing time and McHale did let Lin run the offense in the second unit and an offensive style with a lot of freedom which really fitted Lin well. McHale did criticize Lin time to time but Lin # still gets called especially when Harden was injured. And they traded Lin because they wanna sign Melo or Bosh which I understand and have no problem with it. After all, NBA is still business.

Disagreed. The "give the ball to Harden" offense was doomed for failure. Put the ball in Lin's hands, let him grow and facilitate for all the scorers would have been so much more effective.

Lakers – Byron was hired to protect Kobe in the final years of his career. Lin, Nick Young, Carlo Boozer have all became the scapegoats. Byron has been trying his best not to have Lin steal any of the spot light from Kobe. Move such as he has sub Lin out when Lin was in rhythm, he has publicly told the reporters that he doesn't like to run pick & roll which really took the strongest strength away from Lin. In fact, Byron is still doing the same, taking the blames to protect Kobe and that is the only reason Lakers hired him.

Na, the main thing was tanking for the pick

In any case, back to Lin; the only coaches that have praised Lin were the coaches of the opposite teams such as Sam Mitchell, Fred Hoiberg, George Karl, etc.

Good observation, but actually:

https://sports.vice.com/en_us/article/the-redemption-of-jeremy-lin

Clifford said he absolutely believes Lin will be a starting point guard in the league. "I watch him play and, I mean, it's not like he's not doing anything that he's not going to be able to do consistently," Clifford said. "It's not like you're saying, 'He's made 19 of his last 20 threes,' or something. No. He's a good player."

Clifford noted that Lin's comfort shooting the ball, his improved mobility to the basket with both hands, and his defensive performances are all at the highest level of his career. He's scoring, too; his per-36-minute production is comparable to his Linsanity numbers.

So why is this happening to Lin once again? Simple, it is because Lin wasn’t in their long terms plan from the very beginning. Yup, not even a one year rental. Lin is only a preseason rental at the cost of 2.4 million for a big ass marketing show in China. Nothing more, nothing less.

Don't agree. It's not that bad. He's a bargain, they'd love it if he signs a long term deal 2 per.

I think one big reason Lin signs here is for self improvement. He believes that Cliff and Silas can help him take his game to the next level. It's kinda like his sophomore season, and it has only just begun. It's on Lin to make shots and not turn the ball over. They'd have to play him if it happens.

You can tell Lin was once again so afraid of making mistake or bad play, so he chooses to be passive. Unless a coach has already given up on a player which is exactly what happens to Lin.

So much for choosing a team that understands his game. Again Lin is only a preseason rental for marketing purpose to Hornets. Lin’s fans most likely have to wait another year in order to see if he can find the right “Team” to call home.

Well, it's a long season. I can understand the frustration but patience isn't a bad thing.

Lastly, thank you for your time for reading my comments. Bye all!

You're welcome, (it's indeed time consuming!) see ya!

C'est la vie! Lin is larger than bball.

He cho is. RealGM just so happens to be a basketball forum, so I'd imagine that'd continue to be the focus of discussion.

~lol~ Well, since you (multiple?) are not obliged to click on the thread, I guess that's a positive thing!

Right-O! But why deprive me of the entertainment? This is one of the few places where you can see grown(?) men taking time out of their afternoon to complain about another grown man they don't know getting 20 minutes in an NBA game instead of 25. This is valuable bandwidth right here

Ok cool, even tho you're not making much sense here.