Fake Trade Thread 16/17 pt.1

[Snidely FC]

Jeremy Lamb + Christian Wood to SAC for Willie Cauley-Stein + Omri Casspi

notes:
as a stretch 4 not a C, Wood is blocked behind Marv & Frank for a while, blowing up in D League gives him trade value, he's a better fit than WCS for SAC build around Cousins
WCS great fit on this roster as backup C, can plug-n-play the Cody role with length, much needed athleticism for this squad
Casspi 3&D better fit right now for Cliff offense than Lamb, good size small forward depth, smart guy fit with Nic & Marco

[Joest2003]

Jeremy Lamb + Christian Wood to SAC for Willie Cauley-Stein + Omri Casspi

notes:
as a stretch 4 not a C, Wood is blocked behind Marv & Frank for a while, blowing up in D League gives him trade value, he's a better fit than WCS for SAC build around Cousins
WCS great fit on this roster as backup C, can plug-n-play the Cody role with length, much needed athleticism for this squad
Casspi 3&D better fit right now for Cliff offense than Lamb, good size small forward depth, smart guy fit with Nic & Marco

Lamb is a solid player for us. Hate to be the one to crack it to you but he is a lot better than MKG and Frank. I cannot for the life of me understand why people would want to trade him expecially when our only other shooter is Marco. Don't get me wrong Marco is a good shooter but that's it. Dude is atrocious around the rim and playing defense and has a terrible BBIQ. There is at least 3 plays a game where Marco makes me want to pull my hair out. as much as I love MKG I really think it's time to trade him. He's just not getting better and his jumpshot will never be fixed. We hear every summer how he fixed it but goes right back to that ugly shooting form that will NEVER ever ever be effective in this league. Wonder if Philly would let go of Okafor for MKG.

[Joest2003]

MKG for Okafor let's make it happen. We need some toughness in the paint.

[Snidely FC]

Jeremy Lamb + Christian Wood to SAC for Willie Cauley-Stein + Omri Casspi

notes:
as a stretch 4 not a C, Wood is blocked behind Marv & Frank for a while, blowing up in D League gives him trade value, he's a better fit than WCS for SAC build around Cousins
WCS great fit on this roster as backup C, can plug-n-play the Cody role with length, much needed athleticism for this squad
Casspi 3&D better fit right now for Cliff offense than Lamb, good size small forward depth, smart guy fit with Nic & Marco

Lamb is a solid player for us. Hate to be the one to crack it to you but he is a lot better than MKG and Frank. I cannot for the life of me understand why people would want to trade him expecially when our only other shooter is Marco. Don't get me wrong Marco is a good shooter but that's it. Dude is atrocious around the rim and playing defense and has a terrible BBIQ. There is at least 3 plays a game where Marco makes me want to pull my hair out. as much as I love MKG I really think it's time to trade him. He's just not getting better and his jumpshot will never be fixed. We hear every summer how he fixed it but goes right back to that ugly shooting form that will NEVER ever ever be effective in this league. Wonder if Philly would let go of Okafor for MKG.

I view Jeremy as expendable because he is a career 32% 3 pt shooter who is shooting 24% from 3 this year. He is a scorer, not a shooter. He is an adequate on the ball defender but a flaky team defender. Cliff's offense is purportedly a 4 out 1 in that needs 3 pt shooters to stretch the floor. His defense requires the team to move on a string. I don't think Jeremy is a great fit in Cliff's systems. I also think his skillset at shooting guard is more fungible than that of a Center like WCS. WCS brings tremendous length at rim-protector, and is an excellent screen setter. I would make the above trade because it would replace our third string SG with two guys on good contracts who would snugly fit Cliff's systems on offense and defense, plugging immediate rotation/depth needs at C and SF.

imo Okafor provides scoring in the paint, but not toughness, that's why Noel has taken his spot in the rotation

[bravor]

MKG for Okafor let's make it happen. We need some toughness in the paint.

You would tell me something around Noel+ Luwawu-Cabarrot +filler for MKG, i would feel much better for the Hornets

I still don't understand why MKG should be on the block when he is most likely the only wing player the Hornets have that can deliver in the play offs.
The goal in the end is to perform during the play offs. All wings are soft except MKG.

[yosemiteben]

I don't want to trade Lamb (though my guess is he is the most likely piece to be moved), but I don't understand how you can watch this team and think Lamb has better BBIQ than Marco. Marco is much more involved in off ball movement and has demonstrated much better court vision. Marco definitely makes mistakes and forces things at times, but he demonstrates a higher degree of understanding in how our offense runs than Lamb does.

I've said it before, but Lamb's biggest problem is he is an unbelievably poor C&S shooter (23.3% on C&S 3's so far this season). If he wants time on the floor with Kemba and Batum, he needs to be able to hit outside shots without dominating he ball. Lamb really is basically a longer, springier, less defensively inclined Hendo with a significantly worse outside shot.

Moving MKG seems like a very rushed reactionary decision. I understand being frustrated with him, but his injuries have derailed his development and I think dumping him at age 23 because of that is unwise.

[Joest2003]

Jeremy Lamb + Christian Wood to SAC for Willie Cauley-Stein + Omri Casspi

notes:
as a stretch 4 not a C, Wood is blocked behind Marv & Frank for a while, blowing up in D League gives him trade value, he's a better fit than WCS for SAC build around Cousins
WCS great fit on this roster as backup C, can plug-n-play the Cody role with length, much needed athleticism for this squad
Casspi 3&D better fit right now for Cliff offense than Lamb, good size small forward depth, smart guy fit with Nic & Marco

Lamb is a solid player for us. Hate to be the one to crack it to you but he is a lot better than MKG and Frank. I cannot for the life of me understand why people would want to trade him expecially when our only other shooter is Marco. Don't get me wrong Marco is a good shooter but that's it. Dude is atrocious around the rim and playing defense and has a terrible BBIQ. There is at least 3 plays a game where Marco makes me want to pull my hair out. as much as I love MKG I really think it's time to trade him. He's just not getting better and his jumpshot will never be fixed. We hear every summer how he fixed it but goes right back to that ugly shooting form that will NEVER ever ever be effective in this league. Wonder if Philly would let go of Okafor for MKG.

I view Jeremy as expendable because he is a career 32% 3 pt shooter who is shooting 24% from 3 this year. He is a scorer, not a shooter. He is an adequate on the ball defender but a flaky team defender. Cliff's offense is purportedly a 4 out 1 in that needs 3 pt shooters to stretch the floor. His defense requires the team to move on a string. I don't think Jeremy is a great fit in Cliff's systems. I also think his skillset at shooting guard is more fungible than that of a Center like WCS. WCS brings tremendous length at rim-protector, and is an excellent screen setter. I would make the above trade because it would replace our third string SG with two guys on good contracts who would snugly fit Cliff's systems on offense and defense, plugging immediate rotation/depth needs at C and SF.

imo Okafor provides scoring in the paint, but not toughness, that's why Noel has taken his spot in the rotation

Solid points there. Lamb's not a great 3 point shooter right now but that's ok because he knows it and focuses on what he's good at, driving and mid range. He's shooting a better FG% this season than Batum, MKG, Frank, and Belli just to name a few. Out rebounds Frank and Hawes and has the third highst PER on the team even higher than our max player Batum. We got him for a bag of chips and he's getting paid less than 7m a year in time where Biyombo is making 18m a year. We have huge problems that need to be addressed I just don't see how trading one of our most efficient players on great contract would help us in any way.

[Braggins]

Lamb really is basically a longer, springier, less defensively inclined Hendo with a significantly worse outside shot.

Been seeing the Hendo comparison a lot and wanted to add something.

I think it is a fairly good comparison in a lot of ways, but one thing I haven't seen mentioned is that Lamb has way better touch around the rim and with floaters/runners and is way better at creating his shot than Hendo. Hendo was a one trick pony with the mid range fade away and had a really weak handle and ineffective first step. Lamb can actually take people off the bounce and get to the rim or score in the mid-range or in between in a variety of ways.

Also, Lamb has shown some aptitude in the past as an outside shooter and his 3pt shot still looks good. I think in the long run he has a chance to be a fairly good deep threat, but there isn't a lot of reason to be confident about it given his recent trend in that area. Now that his defensive awareness and understanding seems to have improved, I hope the coaches tell him to lock himself in a gym and work on C&S 3 pointers all summer.

[Joest2003]

I don't want to trade Lamb (though my guess is he is the most likely piece to be moved), but I don't understand how you can watch this team and think Lamb has better BBIQ than Marco. Marco is much more involved in off ball movement and has demonstrated much better court vision. Marco definitely makes mistakes and forces things at times, but he demonstrates a higher degree of understanding in how our offense runs than Lamb does.

I've said it before, but Lamb's biggest problem is he is an unbelievably poor C&S shooter (23.3% on C&S 3's so far this season). If he wants time on the floor with Kemba and Batum, he needs to be able to hit outside shots without dominating he ball. Lamb really is basically a longer, springier, less defensively inclined Hendo with a significantly worse outside shot.

Moving MKG seems like a very rushed reactionary decision. I understand being frustrated with him, but his injuries have derailed his development and I think dumping him at age 23 because of that is unwise.

Marco moves better without the ball because that is the only way hes going to score he has absoutely no handles or athleticism to create his own shot or get to the rim. But let's not act like Lamb doesn't get a lot of shots at the rim and dunks on back door passes (usually from hawes) either. They both play to their strengths and that's smart. In no way does Beli have an above average court vision by any means. I can recall countless bone head plays and turnovers from him that make you wonder wtf he is doing. As for the catch and shoot fg% if you think Lamb is bad then I would really hate to see MKGs percentages. Our starting SF literally has the ugliest shot the league has seen in decades and he gets plenty of playing time with Batum and Walker. If lamb can get his 3 point percentage up to around 40 it would almost be impossible to justify starting MKG over him. And for the record MKG is one of my favorite players I don't want him to be traded either but I feel like he has higher value and we could actually get someone that would make a difference for him. Let's be honest were not going to get a game changer for Lamb his value is not high enough

[yosemiteben]

Marco moves better without the ball because that is the only way hes going to score he has absoutely no handles or athleticism to create his own shot or get to the rim.

Marco forces defenses to shift even if he's just running off a screen off ball, which is immensely valuable. Defenses have to account for where he is on the floor. Defenses don't have to respect Lamb at all.

As for the catch and shoot fg% if you think Lamb is bad then I would really hate to see MKGs percentages. Our starting SF literally has the ugliest shot the league has seen in decades and he gets plenty of playing time with Batum and Walker.

MKG is a far superior individual and team defender. If you're going to plug in a non-perimeter shooter with Kemba and Batum, I'll take the guy who has the better motor, better defensive instincts, and who won't dominate the ball.

[Joest2003]

Marco moves better without the ball because that is the only way hes going to score he has absoutely no handles or athleticism to create his own shot or get to the rim.

Marco forces defenses to shift even if he's just running off a screen off ball, which is immensely valuable. Defenses have to account for where he is on the floor. Defenses don't have to respect Lamb at all.

Defenses don't have to respect Lamb at all? You do know Lamb has a higher fg% right.....

As for the catch and shoot fg% if you think Lamb is bad then I would really hate to see MKGs percentages. Our starting SF literally has the ugliest shot the league has seen in decades and he gets plenty of playing time with Batum and Walker.

MKG is a far superior individual and team defender. If you're going to plug in a non-perimeter shooter with Kemba and Batum, I'll take the guy who has the better motor, better defensive instincts, and who won't dominate the ball.

Ehhhh but is he really? I been hearing for years how great of a defender MKG is and I'm just not seeing it this year. He had more bad defensive games I can remember this season than good ones. You mentioned how defenses don't have to respect Lamb at all which is false, how about MKG? Defenses pray that he will shoot. When MKG shoots the ball it is a victory for the defense. That is literally the best outcome the defense can ask for other than a turnover. Don't try to make this MKG vs Lamb because I love both of them but every criticism you have for Lamb it seems like you're guy MKG is significantly worse at. (Spacing, catch and shoot, court vision)

[yosemiteben]

Defenses don't have to respect Lamb at all? You do know Lamb has a higher fg% right.....

Off the ball he is not a threat. He sets up the vast majority of his offense off the dribble, so you don't have to close out on him. He doesn't force the defense to adjust.

Ehhhh but is he really? I been hearing for years how great of a defender MKG is and I'm just not seeing it this year. He had more bad defensive games I can remember this season than good ones.

Yeah, I think we are far better off defensively with MKG compared to Lamb.

[fatlever]

Call up 29 other GMs and ask them which player they'd rather have right now - MKG or Lamb. My guess is it will be 29-0 in favor of MKG. Post a thread on the PC board and ask them which player they'd rather have on their team - MKG or Lamb. It will be a landslide.

[yosemiteben]

On MKG, I get the point that MKG has been underwhelming this year, and I agree. I think lack of significant progress was predictable given his injury history, the volume of game time that he has missed, and the fact that he was in the middle of some intense development when he was injured. I do think fatlever made a fair point that it seems bizarre that Cliff talked so glowingly about MKG before the season and then the version that we see does not appear to be all that different from the version we've seen before.

I also think Cliff uses MKG more to prop up our team defense than he uses him as a lockdown defender. Even when he is guarding the Westbrooks, LeBrons, and Hardens of the world he is constantly peeling off to help contain penetration and help on the boards, which is what IMO leads to these scoring outbursts - guys get in rhythm and then use that daylight that we give them. It's compounded by the fact that Cliff preaches defending without fouling so MKG isn't viewed as any sort of enforcer - he only averages 2 fouls per 36, which on one side is great because he doesn't get in foul trouble but also I think means he doesn't bring the same degree of aggressive on ball defense.

[Joest2003]

Call up 29 other GMs and ask them which player they'd rather have right now - MKG or Lamb. My guess is it will be 29-0 in favor of MKG. Post a thread on the PC board and ask them which player they'd rather have on their team - MKG or Lamb. It will be a landslide.

Not sure it would be such the landslide you think. MKG is not even known by the average NBA fan outside of the Carolinas so let's not act like he's an all star. And that was my whole point. I said the only reason it would be better to trade MKG is because he actually has some value which is a complement to him. Lamb does not have the trade value to get anyone that would actually make a difference for us in my opinion. He's a efficient scorer and rebounder on a good contract for us. I see no reason to trade him.

[fatlever]

I agree, I don't see much of a reason to trade Lamb for the reasons you mentioned - "he does not have the trade value to get anyone that would actually make a difference". To be honest, I'm not sure Lamb has a positive trade value. You might have to actually attach value to Lamb's contract in order for another team to take on his remaining salary, even at only 7 Mil.

Trading MKG on the other hand most differently would return a player that would make a difference. MKG is the more valuable asset both on the floor and in terms of trade value.

[Joest2003]

I agree, I don't see much of a reason to trade Lamb for the reasons you mentioned - "he does not have the trade value to get anyone that would actually make a difference". To be honest, I'm not sure Lamb has a positive trade value. You might have to actually attach value to Lamb's contract in order for another team to take on his remaining salary, even at only 7 Mil.

Trading MKG on the other hand most differently would return a player that would make a difference. MKG is the more valuable asset both on the floor and in terms of trade value.

Lol ok man let me know when you want to come back to reality and we can have a talk.

[fatlever]

I agree, I don't see much of a reason to trade Lamb for the reasons you mentioned - "he does not have the trade value to get anyone that would actually make a difference". To be honest, I'm not sure Lamb has a positive trade value. You might have to actually attach value to Lamb's contract in order for another team to take on his remaining salary, even at only 7 Mil.

Trading MKG on the other hand most differently would return a player that would make a difference. MKG is the more valuable asset both on the floor and in terms of trade value.

Lol ok man let me know when you want to come back to reality and we can have a talk.

Same to you my friend.

[Joest2003]

I agree, I don't see much of a reason to trade Lamb for the reasons you mentioned - "he does not have the trade value to get anyone that would actually make a difference". To be honest, I'm not sure Lamb has a positive trade value. You might have to actually attach value to Lamb's contract in order for another team to take on his remaining salary, even at only 7 Mil.

Trading MKG on the other hand most differently would return a player that would make a difference. MKG is the more valuable asset both on the floor and in terms of trade value.

Lol ok man let me know when you want to come back to reality and we can have a talk.

Same to you my friend.

It's all love man but common. Lamb is third in PER, MKG is almost last and even behind Hawes and Hibbert. HIBBERT!!. he shoots a overall worse fg% than Lamb and a putrid 14% from the 3. Someone with those stats does not deserved to be praised while you claim Lamb has a negative trade value. How you can even try to justify that is beyond me. Sure you can say MKG is better and even that is a debate worth being had but when you try to praise MKG and make Lamb seem like a scrub that's just not realistic

[fatlever]

I've been really hard on MKG all season, so its not like I am heaping blind praise on MKG.

And I never said Lamb is a scrub.