Z-Rex: The Cody Zeller Thread

[Eoghan]

Stop attacking the posters and start concentrating on the posts.

Thanks.

Sik and me are cool. I respect Sik's opinions a lot, that's why I'm giving him a bit of a hard time about his thoughts on Zeller.

Me or him?

Sorry but how can it be that if we like the pick we are just "justifying" it and beign superfans?

What about this pick means we have to hate it and what about Cody Zeller screams bust or Noel screams "star"

I copped a lot of crap for liking Zeller before the draft and my opinion has not changed one iota.

I actually think sometimes it is braver to make the safe pick.

I kind of feel like there is an opposite vibe being given off. It seems like posters like Red Larivee that are making really valid points for not being on board with this pick are getting the "You're just a hater" treatment.

I'm not saying Zeller screams bust or Noel screams star, I'm just saying that I watched a lot of both this year and felt like one showed promising skill in certain areas and the other showed promising skill in other areas. In my opinion, Noel showed more translatable NBA skill than Zeller did. I think the biggest reason why Noel slipped is because of the injury and GMs on hot seats almost always play it safe and avoid the guys with injury questions. I think what Henry Abbott wrote* makes a lot of sense in that regard.

*http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop

[Liver_Pooty]

Im a Zeller superfan, and Im not ashamed to admit it.

[Elden Payton]

Stop attacking the posters and start concentrating on the posts.

Thanks.

Sik and me are cool. I respect Sik's opinions a lot, that's why I'm giving him a bit of a hard time about his thoughts on Zeller.

Me or him?

Sorry but how can it be that if we like the pick we are just "justifying" it and beign superfans?

What about this pick means we have to hate it and what about Cody Zeller screams bust or Noel screams "star"

I copped a lot of crap for liking Zeller before the draft and my opinion has not changed one iota.

I actually think sometimes it is braver to make the safe pick.

I kind of feel like there is an opposite vibe being given off. It seems like posters like Red Larivee that are making really valid points for not being on board with this pick are getting the "You're just a hater" treatment.

I'm not saying Zeller screams bust or Noel screams star, I'm just saying that I watched a lot of both this year and felt like one showed promising skill in certain areas and the other showed promising skill in other areas. In my opinion, Noel showed more translatable NBA skill than Zeller did. I think the biggest reason why Noel slipped is because of the injury and GMs on hot seats almost always play it safe and avoid the guys with injury questions. I think what Henry Abbott wrote* makes a lot of sense in that regard.

*http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop

Spot on BD.

I respect your opinion a lot and you know that and I do think you are a draft expert and that's why I had to hit you with that one, I believe you are wrong about that one and that is just my opinion.

I've not said anyone is a hater but I have questioned some of the logic behind why we shouldn't have taken Cody Zeller.

In a perfect world you trade back a couple of spots for him but this is not a perfect world.

They are different players yes but one of them has very few holes in his game and the other has a plethora of them.

How people compare their respective upside also is quite intriguing.

[Liver_Pooty]

Stop attacking the posters and start concentrating on the posts.

Thanks.

Sik and me are cool. I respect Sik's opinions a lot, that's why I'm giving him a bit of a hard time about his thoughts on Zeller.

Me or him?

Sorry but how can it be that if we like the pick we are just "justifying" it and beign superfans?

What about this pick means we have to hate it and what about Cody Zeller screams bust or Noel screams "star"

I copped a lot of crap for liking Zeller before the draft and my opinion has not changed one iota.

I actually think sometimes it is braver to make the safe pick.

I kind of feel like there is an opposite vibe being given off. It seems like posters like Red Larivee that are making really valid points for not being on board with this pick are getting the "You're just a hater" treatment.

I'm not saying Zeller screams bust or Noel screams star, I'm just saying that I watched a lot of both this year and felt like one showed promising skill in certain areas and the other showed promising skill in other areas. In my opinion, Noel showed more translatable NBA skill than Zeller did. I think the biggest reason why Noel slipped is because of the injury and GMs on hot seats almost always play it safe and avoid the guys with injury questions. I think what Henry Abbott wrote* makes a lot of sense in that regard.

*http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop

Spot on BD.

I respect your opinion a lot and you know that and I do think you are a draft expert and that's why I had to hit you with that one, I believe you are wrong about that one and that is just my opinion.

I've not said anyone is a hater but I have questioned some of the logic behind why we shouldn't have taken Cody Zeller.

In a perfect world you trade back a couple of spots for him but this is not a perfect world.

They are different players yes but one of them has very few holes in his game and the other has a plethora of them.

How people compare their respective upside also is quite intriguing.

Is it weird of me to honestly think that some people would view Zellers upside much more differently if he was African American?

[Elden Payton]

I've tried to avoid saying it but those are the stereotype glasses I mentioned.

Slam had an epically hilarious post about Ezekiel Powerbomb

[Eoghan]

They are different players yes but one of them has very few holes in his game and the other has a plethora of them.

How people compare their respective upside also is quite intriguing.

Excellent. That's something I think we can find some real middle ground on. I think Noel has as much upside if not more than Zeller b/c Noel had a much more impressive freshman year than Zeller did, IMO. Not as many points but more rebounds, blocks, and steals. He's a young kid and I think he'll put on weight like most other scrawny bigs have and displayed enough basketball IQ to close any skill disparity with Zeller to a negligible amount outside of shooting which I can concede to Zeller.

I just hate statements like "Zeller is more athletic than Noel." There is no way to prove/disprove that since Noel wasn't able to partake in the combine. Noel plays at least as athletic as Zeller does IMO so it's a push on that front.

To me it just boils down to one is lightweight but plays like he isn't and the other isn't but plays like he is. Bigs that play small is just a cardinal sin for big man aficianados like myself and Zeller worries me a lot in that regard.

[Eoghan]

Is it weird of me to honestly think that some people would view Zellers upside much more differently if he was African American?

If by some people you mean me, then I don't know about weird but definitely wrong. I don't care for finesse-style bigs, whether they be white like David Lee, Laettner, or Zeller or black like Bosh or Hibbert.

Either way, it's correlation and probably nothing more but the track record of white American bigs that became NBA stars is a lot spottier than the track record of black American bigs that did. Stereotypes don't originate from thin air for the most part.

[JMAC3]

I have a strong feeling Zeller is going to turn out like Kemba and MKG...

Everyone was mad at the pick when it happened, then after year one people realized they were wrong and got on their bandwagons like they hadn't bashed them for a year plus.

The only difference is that I think Zeller will have the best rookie season of the group.

[Elden Payton]

They are different players yes but one of them has very few holes in his game and the other has a plethora of them.

How people compare their respective upside also is quite intriguing.

Excellent. That's something I think we can find some real middle ground on. I think Noel has as much upside if not more than Zeller b/c Noel had a much more impressive freshman year than Zeller did, IMO. Not as many points but more rebounds, blocks, and steals. He's a young kid and I think he'll put on weight like most other scrawny bigs have and displayed enough basketball IQ to close any skill disparity with Zeller to a negligible amount outside of shooting which I can concede to Zeller.

I just hate statements like "Zeller is more athletic than Noel." There is no way to prove/disprove that since Noel wasn't able to partake in the combine. Noel plays at least as athletic as Zeller does IMO so it's a push on that front.

To me it just boils down to one is lightweight but plays like he isn't and the other isn't but plays like he is. Bigs that play small is just a cardinal sin for big man aficianados like myself and Zeller worries me a lot in that regard.

I agree that they both as much upside as eachother but obviously will be very different players stylistically.

I honestly believe that Zeller was better than Noel in both his college seasons, his stats are very impressive and his mpg really skewed perceptions a bit, the role he played and embraced did not showcase all his skills.

Noel was very impressive before he got injured and proved that he projects as a DPOY caliber defender but his team struggled even before he went down.

Zeller revived the Indiana program and despite the way his college career ended he really was probably the most important player to his team in the entire country.

Athletically Cody Zeller is as good as any big that has come out probably ever, obviously I'm not saying he's a GOAT athlete but his numbers are ridiculously mind blowing and unbelievable, as good an athlete as Noel is he probably wouldn't have beat that.

Also Zeller doesn't play like a light weight, this notion he is soft is unfounded.

[Liver_Pooty]

Is it weird of me to honestly think that some people would view Zellers upside much more differently if he was African American?

If by some people you mean me, then I don't know about weird but definitely wrong. I don't care for finesse-style bigs, whether they be white like David Lee, Laettner, or Zeller or black like Bosh or Hibbert.

Either way, it's correlation and probably nothing more but the track record of white American bigs that became NBA stars is a lot spottier than the track record of black American bigs that did. Stereotypes don't originate from thin air for the most part.

Lol wasn't referring to you.

[TheKingofSting]

He is so unathletic Duke wouldn't even take him.

[Badd_Intentions]

Noel won't ever be as good offensively as Zeller, Zeller won't ever be as good defensively as Noel, but I think Zellers can close the gap more on defense than Noel will on offense. Zeller has the ability to play good pick and roll defense which is a valuable asset with everyone going small these days, also if he can prove to just play really good positional defense at 7 feet is very valuable...He doesn't have to be this tremendous shot blocker or catalytic defensive player(would be nice) but at his height just solid positional defense mixed with a mid-range game and a solid post game I like Zeller's chances.

[BadMofoPimp]

I personally don't think Noel's body will last in this league. He may take the Oden route.

[fatlever]

Noel won't ever be as good offensively as Zeller, Zeller won't ever be as good defensively as Noel, but I think Zellers can close the gap more on defense than Noel will on offense. Zeller has the ability to play good pick and roll defense which is a valuable asset with everyone going small these days, also if he can prove to just play really good positional defense at 7 feet is very valuable...He doesn't have to be this tremendous shot blocker or catalytic defensive player(would be nice) but at his height just solid positional defense mixed with a mid-range game and a solid post game I like Zeller's chances.

essentially, we hope zeller can turn into nick collison on defense. that would be perfect.

[Kembastockton]

I think some of the hurt over Zeller is because some were hoping to get a star out of this draft. We all need to remember that every single player at the top of this draft was a third tier potential. No one was a lock for stardom. Zeller has a legitimate a chance as anyone. He has the size and the skill to play his position. While I was as concerned about his TRex arms as anyone he proved at the combine that he has the quickness and the shooting ability to compensate for if not negate that concern. I think that the very culture of hard work that our young kids are creating will help ensure Zeller's success. Is he our franchise player for the future? Not likely, but anyone that was expecting one from this draft was reaching anyway.

[Liver_Pooty]

Zeller has good defensive instincts, he just has a weak lower body and gets pushed around a little bit. Once he adds strength to his lower body he will be just fine. Plus he won't get bullied nearly as much playing the 4 as he would the 5 in the NBA.

[fatlever]

Caleb (Greensboro, NC)


With Nerlens Noel, Alex Len and Ben McLemore still on the board, why did the Bobcats select Cody Zeller?
Chad Ford
(1:03 PM)


I'm still trying to figure that out -- especially Noel and McLemore. The Bobcats desperately needed a potential star. Those two guys had a chance. I think Zeller could be a nice player, but I wouldn't put him in the same tier with those guys.

[fatlever]

Andy (Philly)


Why did Noel slip so far? Was the knee more of a concern than we all initially thought?
Chad Ford
(1:05 PM)


Doesn't sound like from all the intel I can gather. I've talked to a number of teams that passed on him and none mentioned long-term concerns with the knee. I think they WERE worried about drafting a guy who might not play for them next year. Even the GMs that WANT to be bad next year were worried that their jobs might be in jeopardy if they didn't have their top draft pick for the year. That's the sort of short term thinking that put a lot of these teams in the lottery to begin with.

[Liver_Pooty]

Andy (Philly)


Why did Noel slip so far? Was the knee more of a concern than we all initially thought?
Chad Ford
(1:05 PM)


Doesn't sound like from all the intel I can gather. I've talked to a number of teams that passed on him and none mentioned long-term concerns with the knee. I think they WERE worried about drafting a guy who might not play for them next year. Even the GMs that WANT to be bad next year were worried that their jobs might be in jeopardy if they didn't have their top draft pick for the year. That's the sort of short term thinking that put a lot of these teams in the lottery to begin with.

Can't wait for Zeller to have a nice rookie season and prove the doubters wrong.

[fatlever]

Big Oz (Toronto, On)


What did Ben McLemore do to free fall like he did?
Chad Ford
(1:15 PM)


He was mishandled in the pre-draft process. That's what several NBA GMs told me on why they passed. I wrote a lot about this before the draft. He scared some teams away and given how close the talent was this year, it was the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back. The McLemore story will be used by top NBA agents next year. McLemore chose to screw around with guys who didn't have the experience and it burned him. Cost him a lot of $$$.