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The Nik Stauskas Thread

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Re: The Nik Stauskas Thread 

Post#581 » by mrknowitall215 » Mon Jun 23, 2014 2:16 am

yosemiteben wrote:
BrotherDave wrote:I think Redick at Duke played as much point as Stauskas did at Michigan. The draft talk surrounding Redick was all about converting him to the point, much like we're doing with Stauskas.

Coming from a guy who watched literally every game Redick played at Duke, he was never the primary ballhandler in his four year career. I probably only watched 4 or 5 UM games last season (MSU 2x, Duke and a couple tourney games), but Stauskas regularly brought the ball up the floor and initiated the offense. Redick never demonstrated the ability to create for others that Stauskas did. I really don't think their games are that similar.


...because Redick played with Chris Duhon. Stauskas played with Derrick Walton
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Re: The Nik Stauskas Thread 

Post#582 » by MasterIchiro » Mon Jun 23, 2014 2:17 am

yosemiteben wrote:
BrotherDave wrote:I think Redick at Duke played as much point as Stauskas did at Michigan. The draft talk surrounding Redick was all about converting him to the point, much like we're doing with Stauskas.

Coming from a guy who watched literally every game Redick played at Duke, he was never the primary ballhandler in his four year career. I probably only watched 4 or 5 UM games last season (MSU 2x, Duke and a couple tourney games), but Stauskas regularly brought the ball up the floor and initiated the offense. Redick never demonstrated the ability to create for others that Stauskas did. I really don't think their games are that similar.


They're not, it's coming from posters who convinced themselves Stauskas is just a shooter long before this thread. They're late to the Stauskas party.
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Re: The Nik Stauskas Thread 

Post#583 » by mrknowitall215 » Mon Jun 23, 2014 2:18 am

MasterIchiro wrote:
mrknowitall215 wrote:
jdm3 wrote:95 assist to 90 turnovers as a senior.

0 PG skills. Nik is so far ahead of him as a ball handler and passer it isn't funny. His freshman year Redick was +13 in assists and that was his best for his career at Duke. For his career 296 turnover for his 306 assists.


I'm not saying the Redick's point guard skills are even keel or better than Stauskas', but I am saying that Stauskas' current point guard skills are overrated on this thread. It's not as if Stauskas averaged near 5 assist or anything. Kemba averaged 5 assist at UConn, and almost half of the board don't think he's a legitimate point guard, yet Stauskas average 3 assist in one season as the de-facto point guard and everybody acting like he is the second-coming of Stephen Curry


It's because Stauskas has elite court vision and that doesn't always translate in assists alone. However, it may show up in assist/turnover ratio. Stauskas (a non-PG) had the same assist/turnover ratio as Kemba Walker in 2014. Both had crappy teammates.


Stauskas don't have 'elite court vision', he might have above average court vision for a shooting guard, but that's about it. That's what I meant when I said we are overrating his passing skills
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Re: The Nik Stauskas Thread 

Post#584 » by BeesWax » Mon Jun 23, 2014 2:19 am

mrknowitall215 wrote:
jdm3 wrote:
mrknowitall215 wrote:
That's what I said...how quickly people forget when it doesn't translate

95 assist to 90 turnovers as a senior.

0 PG skills. Nik is so far ahead of him as a ball handler and passer it isn't funny. His freshman year Redick was +13 in assists and that was his best for his career at Duke. For his career 296 turnover for his 306 assists.


I'm not saying the Redick's point guard skills are even keel or better than Stauskas', but I am saying that Stauskas' current point guard skills are overrated on this thread. It's not as if Stauskas averaged near 5 assist or anything. Kemba averaged 5 assist at UConn, and almost half of the board don't think he's a legitimate point guard, yet Stauskas average 3 assist in one season as the de-facto point guard and everybody acting like he is the second-coming of Stephen Curry

Since you brought it up. Steph Curry playing SG like Nik sophomore year 2.9 assist to 2.2 turnovers vs 3.3 to 1.9 of Nik. I know there are other variables but there were some serious doubts about Curry playing any PG until after his junior year. Even then he was 5.6 to 3.7 so he didn't light it up that way either. I am not claiming he will be Curry but he has shown a very high BBIQ and the ability to see the floor very well for a SG.
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Re: The Nik Stauskas Thread 

Post#585 » by mrknowitall215 » Mon Jun 23, 2014 2:19 am

MasterIchiro wrote:They're not, it's coming from posters who convinced themselves Stauskas is just a shooter long before this thread. They're late to the Stauskas party.


Stauskas is more than a shooter. There, you heard it from the horse's mouth. You're twisting what I'm saying
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Re: The Nik Stauskas Thread 

Post#586 » by yosemiteben » Mon Jun 23, 2014 2:20 am

mrknowitall215 wrote:
yosemiteben wrote:
BrotherDave wrote:I think Redick at Duke played as much point as Stauskas did at Michigan. The draft talk surrounding Redick was all about converting him to the point, much like we're doing with Stauskas.

Coming from a guy who watched literally every game Redick played at Duke, he was never the primary ballhandler in his four year career. I probably only watched 4 or 5 UM games last season (MSU 2x, Duke and a couple tourney games), but Stauskas regularly brought the ball up the floor and initiated the offense. Redick never demonstrated the ability to create for others that Stauskas did. I really don't think their games are that similar.


...because Redick played with Chris Duhon. Stauskas played with Derrick Walton

Actually he started alongside a senior Daniel Ewing and then a freshman Greg Paulus his junior and senior years.
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Re: The Nik Stauskas Thread 

Post#587 » by MasterIchiro » Mon Jun 23, 2014 2:21 am

mrknowitall215 wrote:
MasterIchiro wrote:
mrknowitall215 wrote:
I'm not saying the Redick's point guard skills are even keel or better than Stauskas', but I am saying that Stauskas' current point guard skills are overrated on this thread. It's not as if Stauskas averaged near 5 assist or anything. Kemba averaged 5 assist at UConn, and almost half of the board don't think he's a legitimate point guard, yet Stauskas average 3 assist in one season as the de-facto point guard and everybody acting like he is the second-coming of Stephen Curry


It's because Stauskas has elite court vision and that doesn't always translate in assists alone. However, it may show up in assist/turnover ratio. Stauskas (a non-PG) had the same assist/turnover ratio as Kemba Walker in 2014. Both had crappy teammates.


Stauskas don't have 'elite court vision', he might have above average court vision for a shooting guard, but that's about it. That's what I meant when I said we are overrating his passing skills


Call it what you will, I want someone with Kemba's A/T ratio playing alongside him, not some chump who can't shoot threes.
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Re: The Nik Stauskas Thread 

Post#588 » by mrknowitall215 » Mon Jun 23, 2014 2:21 am

jdm3 wrote:
mrknowitall215 wrote:
jdm3 wrote:95 assist to 90 turnovers as a senior.

0 PG skills. Nik is so far ahead of him as a ball handler and passer it isn't funny. His freshman year Redick was +13 in assists and that was his best for his career at Duke. For his career 296 turnover for his 306 assists.


I'm not saying the Redick's point guard skills are even keel or better than Stauskas', but I am saying that Stauskas' current point guard skills are overrated on this thread. It's not as if Stauskas averaged near 5 assist or anything. Kemba averaged 5 assist at UConn, and almost half of the board don't think he's a legitimate point guard, yet Stauskas average 3 assist in one season as the de-facto point guard and everybody acting like he is the second-coming of Stephen Curry

Since you brought it up. Steph Curry playing SG like Nik sophomore year 2.9 assist to 2.2 turnovers vs 3.3 to 1.9 of Nik. I know there are other variables but there were some serious doubts about Curry playing any PG until after his junior year. Even then he was 5.6 to 3.7 so he didn't light it up that way either. I am not claiming he will be Curry but he has shown a very high BBIQ and the ability to see the floor very well for a SG.


I know. That's why I used the Stauskas to Curry comparison since they both played off the ball. I've seen enough Stauskas to not believe that he's in the conversation of being the talent that Curry is, therefore I doubt that he'd translate into a big assist guy in the NBA, but I had a lot of faith in Curry being a point guard coming into the league
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Re: The Nik Stauskas Thread 

Post#589 » by BeesWax » Mon Jun 23, 2014 2:22 am

mrknowitall215 wrote:
yosemiteben wrote:
BrotherDave wrote:I think Redick at Duke played as much point as Stauskas did at Michigan. The draft talk surrounding Redick was all about converting him to the point, much like we're doing with Stauskas.

Coming from a guy who watched literally every game Redick played at Duke, he was never the primary ballhandler in his four year career. I probably only watched 4 or 5 UM games last season (MSU 2x, Duke and a couple tourney games), but Stauskas regularly brought the ball up the floor and initiated the offense. Redick never demonstrated the ability to create for others that Stauskas did. I really don't think their games are that similar.


...because Redick played with Chris Duhon. Stauskas played with Derrick Walton

REDICK COULD NOT DRIBBLE AS A SOPHOMORE. Jeeze be anti Nik as much as you want but don't make stuff up. He was terrible at everything but shooting until very late in his career and was never good at passing or dribbling.
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Re: The Nik Stauskas Thread 

Post#590 » by mrknowitall215 » Mon Jun 23, 2014 2:22 am

yosemiteben wrote:
mrknowitall215 wrote:
yosemiteben wrote:Coming from a guy who watched literally every game Redick played at Duke, he was never the primary ballhandler in his four year career. I probably only watched 4 or 5 UM games last season (MSU 2x, Duke and a couple tourney games), but Stauskas regularly brought the ball up the floor and initiated the offense. Redick never demonstrated the ability to create for others that Stauskas did. I really don't think their games are that similar.


...because Redick played with Chris Duhon. Stauskas played with Derrick Walton

Actually he started alongside a senior Daniel Ewing and then a freshman Greg Paulus his junior and senior years.


...and they both were solid passers too. I'm almost for certain that Ewing & Paulus averaged about 4-5 assist for Duke those years without looking
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Re: The Nik Stauskas Thread 

Post#591 » by BeesWax » Mon Jun 23, 2014 2:24 am

mrknowitall215 wrote:
jdm3 wrote:
mrknowitall215 wrote:
I'm not saying the Redick's point guard skills are even keel or better than Stauskas', but I am saying that Stauskas' current point guard skills are overrated on this thread. It's not as if Stauskas averaged near 5 assist or anything. Kemba averaged 5 assist at UConn, and almost half of the board don't think he's a legitimate point guard, yet Stauskas average 3 assist in one season as the de-facto point guard and everybody acting like he is the second-coming of Stephen Curry

Since you brought it up. Steph Curry playing SG like Nik sophomore year 2.9 assist to 2.2 turnovers vs 3.3 to 1.9 of Nik. I know there are other variables but there were some serious doubts about Curry playing any PG until after his junior year. Even then he was 5.6 to 3.7 so he didn't light it up that way either. I am not claiming he will be Curry but he has shown a very high BBIQ and the ability to see the floor very well for a SG.


I know. That's why I used the Stauskas to Curry comparison since they both played off the ball. I've seen enough Stauskas to not believe that he's in the conversation of being the talent that Curry is, therefore I doubt that he'd translate into a big assist guy in the NBA, but I had a lot of faith in Curry being a point guard coming into the league

I doubt Dell was 100% sure Curry could be a PG. Thing is Curry had to be one Nik can just be an above average passing SG. I don't think he puts up 10 assists a game but a 2 or 3 to 1 assist to turnover ratio with about 4 to 5 assists per game is not far off.
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Re: The Nik Stauskas Thread 

Post#592 » by Liver_Pooty » Mon Jun 23, 2014 2:24 am

Haven't read too much into this thread, but why is Stauskas being compared to Curry?
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Re: The Nik Stauskas Thread 

Post#593 » by mrknowitall215 » Mon Jun 23, 2014 2:30 am

jdm3 wrote:
mrknowitall215 wrote:
yosemiteben wrote:Coming from a guy who watched literally every game Redick played at Duke, he was never the primary ballhandler in his four year career. I probably only watched 4 or 5 UM games last season (MSU 2x, Duke and a couple tourney games), but Stauskas regularly brought the ball up the floor and initiated the offense. Redick never demonstrated the ability to create for others that Stauskas did. I really don't think their games are that similar.


...because Redick played with Chris Duhon. Stauskas played with Derrick Walton

REDICK COULD NOT DRIBBLE AS A SOPHOMORE. Jeeze be anti Nik as much as you want but don't make stuff up. He was terrible at everything but shooting until very late in his career and was never good at passing or dribbling.


I'm not even anti Nik Stauskas. I wouldn't even be mad if Charlotte drafted him. I just have some concerns about how good he can be off the ball
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Re: The Nik Stauskas Thread 

Post#594 » by yosemiteben » Mon Jun 23, 2014 2:31 am

mrknowitall215 wrote:
yosemiteben wrote:
mrknowitall215 wrote:
...because Redick played with Chris Duhon. Stauskas played with Derrick Walton

Actually he started alongside a senior Daniel Ewing and then a freshman Greg Paulus his junior and senior years.


...and they both were solid passers too. I'm almost for certain that Ewing & Paulus averaged about 4-5 assist for Duke those years without looking

Ewing averaged one more assist than Walton, playing for a coach whose entire offense was based on running Redick around screens off the ball and being set up for catch and shoot situations.

Paulus did have some solid assist numbers his frosh year, not sure why I mentioned him except hoping that you only remembered senior year Paulus. With that said, he was playing alongside two All Americans (with the aforementioned offense designed to get him assists), McRoberts and a decent outside shooter in Dockery. That was an easy roster to pad assist numbers for.

The point remains that Redick.never demonstrated the ball handling skills that Stauskas did.
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Re: The Nik Stauskas Thread 

Post#595 » by yosemiteben » Mon Jun 23, 2014 2:34 am

Liver_Pooty wrote:Haven't read too much into this thread, but why is Stauskas being compared to Curry?

Short version - Nik's lack of assists last season doesn't demonstrate his lack of passing skills any more then Curry's did his sophomore season.
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Re: The Nik Stauskas Thread 

Post#596 » by BeesWax » Mon Jun 23, 2014 2:34 am

Liver_Pooty wrote:Haven't read too much into this thread, but why is Stauskas being compared to Curry?

Not really sure but looking at the numbers they are closer as sophomores than Redick and Nik are. I don't think Nik will be near as good a PG as Curry but he is already a way better SG all round than Redick was coming in. Man I still remember the finger roll air ball by Redick with Orlando.
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Re: The Nik Stauskas Thread 

Post#597 » by Liver_Pooty » Mon Jun 23, 2014 2:36 am

jdm3 wrote:
Liver_Pooty wrote:Haven't read too much into this thread, but why is Stauskas being compared to Curry?

Not really sure but looking at the numbers they are closer as sophomores than Redick and Nik are. I don't think Nik will be near as good a PG as Curry but he is already a way better SG all round than Redick was coming in. Man I still remember the finger roll air ball by Redick with Orlando.


Stauskas is a nice ball handler and all, but he is nothing compared to Curry as far as pure play making ability. As far as Redick goes Stauskas better be a better NBA player than him or we would have swung and missed big time.
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Re: The Nik Stauskas Thread 

Post#598 » by mrknowitall215 » Mon Jun 23, 2014 2:41 am

yosemiteben wrote:
mrknowitall215 wrote:
yosemiteben wrote:Actually he started alongside a senior Daniel Ewing and then a freshman Greg Paulus his junior and senior years.


...and they both were solid passers too. I'm almost for certain that Ewing & Paulus averaged about 4-5 assist for Duke those years without looking

Ewing averaged one more assist than Walton, playing for a coach whose entire offense was based on running Redick around screens off the ball and being set up for catch and shoot situations.

Paulus did have some solid assist numbers his frosh year, not sure why I mentioned him except hoping that you only remembered senior year Paulus. With that said, he was playing alongside two All Americans (with the aforementioned offense designed to get him assists), McRoberts and a decent outside shooter in Dockery. That was an easy roster to pad assist numbers for.

The point remains that Redick.never demonstrated the ball handling skills that Stauskas did.


No, Ewing averaged 4.0 assist in his senior year that he started at PG alongside Redick. Before that, Ewing played off the ball as Duhon ran the offense

...and you adequately stated Paulus

I'm not saying that Redick was a better ball handling SG than Stauskas. I'm just saying that I could easily see Stauskas fall into the same category as Redick, but I would hope not if he's drafted by the Hornets

I don't want to debate about Stauskas and Redick when Redick was the better scorer and Stauskas was the better ball handler, all while being similar shooters. I agree that Stauskas is a better ball handler
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Re: The Nik Stauskas Thread 

Post#599 » by BeesWax » Mon Jun 23, 2014 2:42 am

Liver_Pooty wrote:
jdm3 wrote:
Liver_Pooty wrote:Haven't read too much into this thread, but why is Stauskas being compared to Curry?

Not really sure but looking at the numbers they are closer as sophomores than Redick and Nik are. I don't think Nik will be near as good a PG as Curry but he is already a way better SG all round than Redick was coming in. Man I still remember the finger roll air ball by Redick with Orlando.


Stauskas is a nice ball handler and all, but he is nothing compared to Curry as far as pure play making ability. As far as Redick goes Stauskas better be a better NBA player than him or we would have swung and missed big time.

Having a friend who was a Davidson grad I went to a number of games. Until his junior year Steph was not much of a playmaker at all. He did not seem to see the floor very well. He worked very hard to get to where he was because he was not a natural PG. Again not saying Nik will get as far as Curry PG wise and he doesn't need to do it because he is big enough to play SG but he sees the court better now than Curry did at this age. I think he will but up solid assist for a SG on a good assist to turnover ratio. Let the game slow down for him a little bit which with his BBIQ won't take long and he will be a very good secondary ball handler.
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Re: The Nik Stauskas Thread 

Post#600 » by BeesWax » Mon Jun 23, 2014 2:48 am

mrknowitall215 wrote:
yosemiteben wrote:
mrknowitall215 wrote:
...and they both were solid passers too. I'm almost for certain that Ewing & Paulus averaged about 4-5 assist for Duke those years without looking

Ewing averaged one more assist than Walton, playing for a coach whose entire offense was based on running Redick around screens off the ball and being set up for catch and shoot situations.

Paulus did have some solid assist numbers his frosh year, not sure why I mentioned him except hoping that you only remembered senior year Paulus. With that said, he was playing alongside two All Americans (with the aforementioned offense designed to get him assists), McRoberts and a decent outside shooter in Dockery. That was an easy roster to pad assist numbers for.

The point remains that Redick.never demonstrated the ball handling skills that Stauskas did.


No, Ewing averaged 4.0 assist in his senior year that he started at PG alongside Redick. Before that, Ewing played off the ball as Duhon ran the offense

...and you adequately stated Paulus

I'm not saying that Redick was a better ball handling SG than Stauskas. I'm just saying that I could easily see Stauskas fall into the same category as Redick, but I would hope not if he's drafted by the Hornets

I don't want to debate about Stauskas and Redick when Redick was the better scorer and Stauskas was the better ball handler, all while being similar shooters. I agree that Stauskas is a better ball handler

Again wrong. JJ hit 70 shots from inside the arc while Stauskas split time almost evenly inside and out. Stauskas shot better from inside and out percentage wise. He is much further along than Redick as a sophomore was. It took Redick until his senior year to put up any percentage equal to Nik other than FT. They are not even close as players Nik is currently so far ahead of same year Redick.
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