Over The Top: The James Borrego Thread

[BigSlam]

are we just going to forget they've also beat the Bucks twice, Philly, Denver, and Golden State?

Doesn’t suit the narrative if you include those though.

[luciano-davidwesley]

Beating the good teams and losing to the bad teams means we play to the level of the competition. Which means the players, and the coaches too, aren't mature enough. We don't know how to win, yet.

Right, which is a point many of us on here have touched on multiple times

While Borrego has been coaching since 2003, he's only been the lead man now for his 4th year, and he's only 44 years old. He's very young in his career, and developing just like the players, so we should keep that in mind.

Additionally, Hayward, Plumlee, and Ish are the only "vets" on the roster, and really none of them have much of a reputation as either a "star" or "accountability" guy. 11/17 guys on the roster are 24 or younger, and 14/17 are 27 or younger. They're super immature and we've all seen it up close as they play hard against good teams and hot dog against bad teams.

The lack of older, more established coach and/or older, hard nosed veteran leaders is going to allow that to manifest. It's indicative of the entire on-court product being young. Easiest way to make that change is to acquire some older, last contract guys who will bark at the young guys, opponents, and refs on a nightly basis

Acquiring a few 34 year olds is not magically going to stop the complacency or lack of motivation against weaker opponents. It is the coaching staff's job to motivate the squad and prepare them to play against all levels of opponent.

The wins against good teams tell me is there is plenty of talent in the roster. The numerous bad losses tell me there is a lack of accountability and effort at times. The coach sets the standard and discipline with how he deals with poor application, attitude and effort. That's on the coaching staff.

[yosemiteben]

It is the coaching staff's job to motivate the squad...

Strongly disagree. These are professionals, they legit shouldn't depend on their coach saying "Now remember you should still do your job this game like you did last game. Don't forget to care."

A motivation problem is a player problem.

[SWedd523]

It is the coaching staff's job to motivate the squad...

Strongly disagree. These are professionals, they legit shouldn't depend on their coach saying "Now remember you should still do your job this game like you did last game. Don't forget to care."

A motivation problem is a player problem.

agreed. this has been my stance for a long time.

you aren't going to have Gene Hackman or Samuel L Jackson come through that door at halftime with some inspirational halftime speech to get them to put their hands up and get into a defensive stance.

MJ and Robin Williams aren't waiting to sneak the players a bottle of secret stuff to get them to run faster and jump higher.

[Chapelchilla]

I am also fairly certain that not having Hayward or his back up Oubre is a big reason for not playing well the last 2 games. Having no legit 3 men will do that to ya....

[amcoolio]

LaMelo is 20. Its painful but we are a few years away. We are early Trae Young hawks.

[luciano-davidwesley]

It is the coaching staff's job to motivate the squad...

Strongly disagree. These are professionals, they legit shouldn't depend on their coach saying "Now remember you should still do your job this game like you did last game. Don't forget to care."

A motivation problem is a player problem.

We should just appoint a captain/coach and be done with paying the coaches if you don't think they are responsible for preparing and motivating the players. What's their job if not that? Set plays out of time outs and player development in practice?

[SWedd523]

game plan, strategy, design plays, manage personalities and playing time, watch film and find/exploit opponent weaknesses, uh... design practice and development goals, act as the central public face of the team, communicate with the rest of the front office about wants and needs of the coaching staff for player personnel

what they cannot do is force professional adults getting paid millions of dollars a year to give a damn about defense

We live in the tik tok, eybl, drew league era. probably at no point have any of the 25 and below dudes learned or established any sort of defensive fundamentals, so to expect them to suddenly develop it is.... somewhat unfair to a young coach

[JMAC3]

When you lose to the rockets, magic, clippers without p. George and K. leanord, it is time to question your coaches ability to identify the weakness of the other team and exploit it.

Shooting 3s is great when they go in. If they don’t sometimes you give up a lot of run outs that can get the other team going.

A good coach is somebody who can make adjustments and not lose to all these trash teams when they have a lot more talent.

3 games has you worried... look at the scores just from last night man. Pistons beat Cavs, Magic beat Mavs... it's the NBA. There is a reason they say anyone can beat anyone on any given night.

Hell the Rockets won 7 in a row, beating brooklyn, chicago and us in the same stretch... This isn't the College football playoff, nobody is grading you on your quality wins or losses. A win is a win.

[yosemiteben]

It is the coaching staff's job to motivate the squad...

Strongly disagree. These are professionals, they legit shouldn't depend on their coach saying "Now remember you should still do your job this game like you did last game. Don't forget to care."

A motivation problem is a player problem.

We should just appoint a captain/coach and be done with paying the coaches if you don't think they are responsible for preparing and motivating the players. What's their job if not that? Set plays out of time outs and player development in practice?

Like are you really asking what a coach's job is if not to remind players that they should care about their jobs?

[JDR720]

Coaches hold players accountable, but they shouldn't need to motivate them. Nobody ever had to tell MKG or Kemba or Cody or Bismack to play hard.

JB is a development coach, not an X's and O's coach. I'd also say he is too nice, he doesn't hold the guys accountable for their lack of defense so they see no reason to improve it.

Look at Rozier as a prime example. He was a defender in college, a defender in Boston yet here he is a defensive liability. Why? Because JB doesn't make him play defense. So Rozier doesn't bother with it, despite having the ability and tools to do so.

[luciano-davidwesley]

Strongly disagree. These are professionals, they legit shouldn't depend on their coach saying "Now remember you should still do your job this game like you did last game. Don't forget to care."

A motivation problem is a player problem.

We should just appoint a captain/coach and be done with paying the coaches if you don't think they are responsible for preparing and motivating the players. What's their job if not that? Set plays out of time outs and player development in practice?

Like are you really asking what a coach's job is if not to remind players that they should care about their jobs?

I was making an intentional over-simplification but quite clearly preparing and motivating players IS part of their job. Players have major responsibility too but to just dismiss it as the players job only is just silly.

[Hornet Mania]

JB isn't beyond criticism, but I also don't think he's holding the team back. They've either met or exceeded expectations, at least my expectations, every year he's been at the helm. I'm content to let him continue to grow as a coach unless/until the team performs below their talent. Good NBA teams drop games to bad NBA teams all the time, it sucks but it happens.

I can't lie though, the clip where he tried to use an Over the Top reference to rally the players made me want to fire him momentarily. No more of that.

[Robot Rock]

Get this clown out of this franchise. Got an extension for leading the team to 0 playoff games. He holds back LaMelo, all the young guys and the credit he gets for developing people like Kai Jones needs to go to his assistants and Surenkamp.

If you want this team to ever win 40 games again, you gotta fire Borrego. It will never happen with him, he’s an abject failure.

[luciano-davidwesley]

I bet JB is feeling pretty relieved he signed a "multi year extension" last August! MJ not so much. Let's hope it's only for two years for the teams sake.

The seat is heating up JB......

[SWedd523]

Get this clown out of this franchise. Got an extension for leading the team to 0 playoff games. He holds back LaMelo, all the young guys and the credit he gets for developing people like Kai Jones needs to go to his assistants and Surenkamp.

If you want this team to ever win 40 games again, you gotta fire Borrego. It will never happen with him, he’s an abject failure.

HOT TAKE ALERT!

[GoBobs]

I think he is middle of the road. If you look at what the clippers are doing this year, there are clearly people doing a lot more with a lot less.

We are above some teams with similar talent but below others. Just another guy should not be enough to hold a coaching job for long though. We need to try and find a difference maker.

[KembaWalker]

we only ever started showing good player development as a team when we hired Jay Hernandez. Before that the only player we ever had that truly developed was Kemba Walker, because he was working with Jay Hernandez. We better keep that guy when we fire Borrego

[Braggins]

I actually think the roster this year is about the same, or worse, compared to last years roster. LaMelo and Miles have improved, but I think the personnel changes were generally downgrades. The Graham trade was one of the few offseason moves that I liked (I rated this offseason pretty poorly), but Ish is a downgrade. Oubre is a downgrade from Monk. Plumlee over Zeller is lateral at best.

With Gordon looking like hes going to miss a similar chunk of the season as last year, I don't think you can expect the team to be much better this season in terms of record. The season has even played out eerily similar so far. Last year about halfway through the season they looked poised to make a run at a top 4-6 seed and then Gordon went down and they were suddenly super mediocre. Its the pretty the same scenario this season.

That said, I think some criticism of Borrego is fair. I'm still not completely sold on the guy, but I think hes shown enough that I lean towards the positive, at least slightly, considering how young he is.

[Robot Rock]

4-16 in overtime games since he took over.