#BringBacktheBiz - The Bismack Biyombo Thread

[Nanogeek]

no, it's telling of the fact that biyombo is a unique case. you keep saying the same thing while not adding anything to your original points. not sure why you feel the need to do that.

I keep saying the same thing because others keep offering up the same excuses "wait until next year", "he's unique", etc.

[Nanogeek]

Tyson Chandler for one. Ben Wallace was "as bad as Biyombo" for at least 4 seasons before he won a DPOY. I'm sorry you have such a poor understanding of context, the world and the people in it do not exist in only black and white.

Chandler was a better player than Biyombo on his first day in the league. Also, Chandler made significant progress in his third season. Wallace is an example I offered in the old thread about what we can hope to see from Biyombo. Wallace had a breakout season in his third season where his defensive play went to another level. Again, my challenge was to name a player who is a defensive only type that didn't break out by year three. There are none that I am aware of. Hence why I think Biyombo needs to show significant progress next year. I think its amusing that some here are already hedging against the possibility he will show little progress by arguing he's a "unique" case, etc.

You think Biyombo is terrible, that's your opinion and you're welcome to it. But the rest of us are in more or less agreement that Bismack is a special project and are reserving judgment for the duration of his rookie contract.

This isn't even a coherent thought. I think Biyombo IS terrible. No one on this board disagrees with that assessment. I agree that Biyombo is a project. I am simply asserting that if this project doesn't show real development by next season that will create real doubt that he'll ever be starter-level quality. Present vs future - two different things. You keep babbling about how he could be good in the future. I agree. You keep desperately looking for something to disagree with because you don't like to read about comments that Biyombo is terrible now. He is. Accept it.

Also, Ajinca and Morrison? WTF? The former was taken in the late 1st round (these picks historically don't pan out) and the latter was a widely heralded college player whose career was derailed by a knee injury which robbed him of what little athleticism he had. He's pretty much the anti-Bismack.

Reread my post as you seem befuddled. I said the same excuses were being made for Ajinca as I'm seeing for Biyombo. I wasn't comparing their draft position. Its quite silly for you to make such simplistic straw men to tear down when no one even made such points. As for Morrison - yeah he was really tearing it up before the knee injury. Anyone that watched him play in his rookie season could tell this guy was a bust. Some of us could tell he would be a bust after watching him in college for that matter. But yet again you seem to be too desperate to argue to understand the point of the Morrison example. Its not that Morrison and Biyombo are similar players silly - its like we have with Biyombo we have starry-eyed fan boys that aren't realistic about the possibility that Morrison was likely not going to pan out.

[KembaWalker]

The argument "Adam Morrison and Alexis Ajinca were busts, why would you have hope for Bismack?" really makes 0 sense to me. you've been saying it over and over these last few months and its still meaningless. Hell just last year people were saying "just wait until next year" with Kemba Walker, so we waited and everything went great. Doesn't that kind of ruin your entire argument?

[e4Nf6]

Also, Chandler made significant progress in his third season.

Just a little fact checking...

In his third year (2003-2004) Chandler hurt his back and only played 35 games (22minutes/game) and shot 42%. He was quite bad.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/chandty01.html

[Kembastockton]

Reread my post as you seem befuddled. I said the same excuses were being made for Ajinca as I'm seeing for Biyombo. I wasn't comparing their draft position. Its quite silly for you to make such simplistic straw men to tear down when no one even made such points. As for Morrison - yeah he was really tearing it up before the knee injury. Anyone that watched him play in his rookie season could tell this guy was a bust. Some of us could tell he would be a bust after watching him in college for that matter. But yet again you seem to be too desperate to argue to understand the point of the Morrison example. Its not that Morrison and Biyombo are similar players silly - its like we have with Biyombo we have starry-eyed fan boys that aren't realistic about the possibility that Morrison was likely not going to pan out.

Wow! You must be some kind of fortune teller! You Knew for certain that Adam was going to be a bust in the nba when he was throwing up 30 one night 40 the next at the college level! Most of us just feared that he might be due to the diabetes and lack of athleticism. Could you send me a private message with tonight's lottery numbers? I appreciate it bruh!

The problem is that people overrate how bad Biz is. Some of our woes defensively you have to put on the team. The whole team is terrible defensively. Biz has a lot to learn, but he is good enough to stay on the floor. Ajinca was terrible. His career highs are in points is 12, rebounds 9, and block shots 2. If he had been able to average anywhere near the 7 boards and 2 blocks Biz gives us he would still be a Bobcat.

Biz makes many great defensive plays and very few dodohead defensive plays. As long as he follows the curb defensively there is reason to hope. He was not brought in, because he was thought to be the next Kareem. As long as he continues to improve every year like he has been doing there is no way he can bust. He already is a decent defender.

After the Denver game George Karl reportedly told Dunlap that in five years Biz would be averaging a double double. There is absolutely no reason to doubt that. The hope that Biz fans have is not blind.

[vorbis]

nanogeek, everything you just said, you have already said. i would love to see you make an argument that biyombo is not a unique case. otherwise, maybe your argument is not as compelling as you think it is and you should try to persuade people from another angle.

also ridiculing other posters here as "starry-eyed fanboys" is pretty petty for you. we're all watching bobcats games, and many of us are paying close attention to the development of young players. i think posters here deserve the benefit of the doubt about the players they're watching, and deserve to have their opinions heard without being belittled by someone who disagrees with them.

[Johnlac1]

I was never a fan of Morrison. He always looked like a person lacking the athleticism despite decent skills. But Biyombo's physical gifts and desire were never in question. What he's lacking is BB IQ and skills. His improvement will directly relate to how much he imporves in the latter areas. He looks like he's been working very hard on a jump hook because I was impressed by a few he's taken this year. He's already an excellent shot-blocker. Certainly that doesn't make him a good defensive player, but he has the reactions.

[penquin11]

I find it extremely concerning that after being in the NBA for over a year, Biyombo still struggles to catch the ball, or carry out a catch and dunk play....

[catch20two]

C'mon, he's not as careless with catching the basketball as he used to be. He's made great strides over the past month from where he was previously. He still has problems finishing in the paint once he catch the pass but he's improving. It's not like he's a total lost cause like some are making him out to be.

[Eoghan]

Chandler was a better player than Biyombo on his first day in the league. Also, Chandler made significant progress in his third season. Wallace is an example I offered in the old thread about what we can hope to see from Biyombo. Wallace had a breakout season in his third season where his defensive play went to another level. Again, my challenge was to name a player who is a defensive only type that didn't break out by year three. There are none that I am aware of. Hence why I think Biyombo needs to show significant progress next year. I think its amusing that some here are already hedging against the possibility he will show little progress by arguing he's a "unique" case, etc.

Your recollection of Chandler's early career is flagrantly inaccurate. I'm sorry I did not meet the terms of your challenge, it was impossible b/c there are no such things as "defensive all-stars." So I just named two players who have won DPOY and had comparable numbers to Bismack instead.

This isn't even a coherent thought. I think Biyombo IS terrible. No one on this board disagrees with that assessment. I agree that Biyombo is a project. I am simply asserting that if this project doesn't show real development by next season that will create real doubt that he'll ever be starter-level quality. Present vs future - two different things. You keep babbling about how he could be good in the future. I agree. You keep desperately looking for something to disagree with because you don't like to read about comments that Biyombo is terrible now. He is. Accept it.

For once you are right, no one on this board disagrees that you think Biyombo is terrible. Biyombo is not terrible, he is an average player that would start on a terrible NBA team. Oh look, he does!

Reread my post as you seem befuddled. I said the same excuses were being made for Ajinca as I'm seeing for Biyombo. I wasn't comparing their draft position. Its quite silly for you to make such simplistic straw men to tear down when no one even made such points. As for Morrison - yeah he was really tearing it up before the knee injury. Anyone that watched him play in his rookie season could tell this guy was a bust. Some of us could tell he would be a bust after watching him in college for that matter. But yet again you seem to be too desperate to argue to understand the point of the Morrison example. Its not that Morrison and Biyombo are similar players silly - its like we have with Biyombo we have starry-eyed fan boys that aren't realistic about the possibility that Morrison was likely not going to pan out.

Newsflash: You brought up the straw-men. Maybe you should reread your posts since your memory is so lacking. You can't fart in a room and expect someone to not complain about the smell.

Every Biyombo related post you make is "I think Biyombo is terrible and here are some irrelevant reasons why." Give it up sir, you do not flatter yourself.

[Eoghan]

Ajinca, selected 20th (IMO that's not late) was drafted ahead of Ibaka, Batum, Ryan Anderson, Koufos, George Hill & Darrell Arthur- all later picks who have panned out.

Ajinca was a huge miss with talent like that still on the board.

The old hindsight problem. If you consider the entire history of the people taken with the 20th pick, there are just as many busts if not more so than good players. It's historically a hit-or-miss section of the draft, that's why those picks don't cost as much. Regardless, none of this Ajinca poppycock has much to do with Biyombo so let's please not discuss it further.

[Nanogeek]

Biyombo is at best a role player level talent right now despite getting starter minutes. No one disputes this.
Biyombo has shown meager improvement over last year. No one disputes this.

I think if Biyombo doesn't show real progress next year then the project is over. Others think we should give Biyombo another decade or some other ridiculous length of time to develop into a starter because he's a "unique case".

A few here are getting worked up into a frenzy because I'm not buying into the fanboy parade. However, such antics aren't going to make me change my mind on this. Just because I don't break out the pom poms and cheer blindly like every pick is going to become an All-Star "just you wait!" doesn't me less of a fan. I pay five figures each year for luxury suite seats each year because I'm a fan. And I offer up criticism where criticism is due because I'm a fan.

[BigSlam]

It's not like he's a total lost cause like some are making him out to be.

I agree with this. I'm hard on Biz but he is far from a lost cause. His work ethic alone speaks to that. It's not like he is a May or an Ajinca. Biz is a long way off being a finished product. If he is the same player this time in 2 years we should be worried, but at this stage he is still a work in progress - and still shows potential.

[Eoghan]

Define real progress.

[Makaveli92]

The Bobcats will suck until they finally decide to get rid of Biyombo, or at least bench him, he's not a starter, and never will be, I mean, he's a starter now, but that's just because he plays for the Bobcats, if he played for any other team he wouldn't be starting. Right now, the Bobcats don't have no other choice but to start him, but if the Bobcats do decide to draft Noel, Biyombo will be out the door, or benched. The Bobcats just need to find a PF or C in FA, get rid of Mullens and Biyombo, resign McRoberts. Mullens, nor Biyombo has never played as good as McRoberts is right now on the Cats, and he hasn't even been on the team that long. Are ya'll seeing the numbers he's putting up on a nightly basis? when has Mullens or Biyombo did that?

[Eoghan]

You're right, we don't need any players to protect the rim. A kid that finished in the top 10 in blocks last year and likely this year as well sucks and obviously can't play. All we need is Josh McRoberts even though he's never averaged even one block a game in his whole career. McRoberts is the FRANCHISE, it's not like we acquired him for an out of the league Hakim Warrick or anything.

[HornetJail]

The Bobcats will suck until they finally decide to get rid of Biyombo, or at least bench him, he's not a starter, and never will be, I mean, he's a starter now, but that's just because he plays for the Bobcats, if he played for any other team he wouldn't be starting. Right now, the Bobcats don't have no other choice but to start him, but if the Bobcats do decide to draft Noel, Biyombo will be out the door, or benched. The Bobcats just need to find a PF or C in FA, get rid of Mullens and Biyombo, resign McRoberts. Mullens, nor Biyombo has never played as good as McRoberts is right now on the Cats, and he hasn't even been on the team that long. Are ya'll seeing the numbers he's putting up on a nightly basis? when has Mullens or Biyombo did that?

Yeah you're right, 20 years old and hasn't put up any monster 20/20s or triple-doubles with blocks yet. We should clearly dump him. In fact he's so terrible, we would have to trade Kemba with him just to remove him from our salary.

I don't think you get it man, Bismack was drafted as a project. If we were an average team with a legit starting frontcourt, I think everyone here would admit he would've spent the majority of last year, and some of this year in the D-League. In fact, I'm surprised he's never gone down there. I thought he was going to be a complete liability on both ends as a rookie, and he impressed me and most everyone else here with his ability to stay on the court. The fact is we are focused on development of our players (like Bismack) and acquiring talent, not so focused on winning at the moment. You can't say we'll suck forever as long as we play Bismack, because this team will grow, and Biz will grow along with it.

[Makaveli92]

Just sign someone like Josh Smith this summer, I wish the best for Biyombo..

[James Gatz]

Biyombo has shown meager improvement over last year. No one disputes this.

I dispute this.

[Diop]

Biyombo has shown meager improvement over last year. No one but James Gatz disputes this.

I dispute this.

fixed?