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2014 Draft Prospects Thread

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Re: Wiggins Sweepstakes 

Post#61 » by NCHeels2008 » Sat Jul 6, 2013 10:37 pm

Biz Gilwalker wrote:
MasterIchiro wrote:Revised for the Pistons' Josh Smith move:

1-Celtics
2-Magic
3-Sixers
4-Suns
5-Bobcats
6-Kings
7-Jazz
8-Raptors
9-Pistons (Bobcats)
10-Pelicans (Sixers)
11-Cavs
12-Mavs
13-Blazers (Bobcats)
14-Wolves

How would you guys feel about picks 5, 9 and 13 in the 2014 draft?

It literally can not get better than that unless we land a top pick in a lucky bounce of the ping-pong balls.


based on DraftExpress' current mock that would land the 'Cats

Jabari Parker
Glenn Robinson III
Isiah Austin
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Re: Wiggins Sweepstakes 

Post#62 » by roc » Sat Jul 6, 2013 11:54 pm

Biz Gilwalker wrote:
MasterIchiro wrote:Revised for the Pistons' Josh Smith move:

1-Celtics
2-Magic
3-Sixers
4-Suns
5-Bobcats
6-Kings
7-Jazz
8-Raptors
9-Pistons (Bobcats)
10-Pelicans (Sixers)
11-Cavs
12-Mavs
13-Blazers (Bobcats)
14-Wolves

How would you guys feel about picks 5, 9 and 13 in the 2014 draft?

It literally can not get better than that unless we land a top pick in a lucky bounce of the ping-pong balls.

as a DET fan I am still holding out hope we get that lucky bounce if we miss the playoffs.

I have always liked CHA though so hope you guys have some good luck in the 14 draft, just hopefully not too good of luck at our expense. ;)
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Re: Wiggins Sweepstakes 

Post#63 » by vorbis » Sun Jul 7, 2013 12:42 am

i think there's a decent chance parker stays at duke beyond one season. we'll see. mock drafts are like abstract poetry at this time of year.
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Re: Wiggins Sweepstakes 

Post#64 » by James Gatz » Sun Jul 7, 2013 1:39 am

vorbis wrote: mock drafts are like abstract poetry at this time of year.

I like that metaphor.
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Re: Wiggins Sweepstakes 

Post#65 » by doc.end » Sun Jul 7, 2013 2:45 pm

r0cd0gg wrote:
Biz Gilwalker wrote:
MasterIchiro wrote:Revised for the Pistons' Josh Smith move:

1-Celtics
2-Magic
3-Sixers
4-Suns
5-Bobcats
6-Kings
7-Jazz
8-Raptors
9-Pistons (Bobcats)
10-Pelicans (Sixers)
11-Cavs
12-Mavs
13-Blazers (Bobcats)
14-Wolves

How would you guys feel about picks 5, 9 and 13 in the 2014 draft?

It literally can not get better than that unless we land a top pick in a lucky bounce of the ping-pong balls.

as a DET fan I am still holding out hope we get that lucky bounce if we miss the playoffs.

I have always liked CHA though so hope you guys have some good luck in the 14 draft, just hopefully not too good of luck at our expense. ;)

That's OK ... as long as we get top 3 pick in 2015 or 2016 via the pick you owe us :wink:
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Re: Wiggins Sweepstakes 

Post#66 » by fatlever » Sun Jul 7, 2013 3:32 pm

SWedd523 wrote:Stop **** around with weights and odds and combinations and just do it exactly like the NFL does it.


then the tanking would be even worse. if a franchise was guaranteed a ewing, lebron, shaq or duncan by having the worst record there would be some teams winning 5 games in a season.
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Re: Wiggins Sweepstakes 

Post#67 » by SWedd523 » Sun Jul 7, 2013 3:40 pm

fatlever wrote:
SWedd523 wrote:Stop **** around with weights and odds and combinations and just do it exactly like the NFL does it.


then the tanking would be even worse. if a franchise was guaranteed a ewing, lebron, shaq or duncan by having the worst record there would be some teams winning 5 games in a season.

So?
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Re: Wiggins Sweepstakes 

Post#68 » by fatlever » Sun Jul 7, 2013 3:44 pm

well, i guess it depends on whether you view blatant tanking as a good thing or a bad thing vs allowing the worst record to get the best player.
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Re: Wiggins Sweepstakes 

Post#69 » by SWedd523 » Sun Jul 7, 2013 3:54 pm

The league is all about parity right? Would they rather have teams tank for half a decade (because it's going to happen regardless), wallow in misery, and only have a handful of teams be relevant for that same time?

Or would they rather a team tank for 1-2 years, get a great player, and level the playing field across the league?
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Re: Wiggins Sweepstakes 

Post#70 » by fatlever » Sun Jul 7, 2013 4:37 pm

i see your point. if the worst team was guaranteed to get the 1st pick, it might reduce the number of teams trying to tank. the teams that were tanking would tank harder though. so you might have 4-5 teams winning 10-20 games and the rest trying to compete. unlike this next season where we will probably have 10 teams that will be bad.

i'm not sure it would help parity though. the bad teams would be truly awful and the teams in the middle might have less incentive to be bad and therefore go harder at the playoffs.
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Re: Wiggins Sweepstakes 

Post#71 » by hotrod » Sun Jul 7, 2013 8:06 pm

MasterIchiro wrote:Revised for the Pistons' Josh Smith move:

1-Celtics
2-Magic
3-Sixers
4-Suns
5-Bobcats
6-Kings
7-Jazz
8-Raptors
9-Pistons (Bobcats)
10-Pelicans (Sixers)
11-Cavs
12-Mavs
13-Blazers (Bobcats)
14-Wolves

How would you guys feel about picks 5, 9 and 13 in the 2014 draft?


This sucks. Boston goes from deep playoff runs to probably top pick in the draft. One bad season and they get a probable superstar. Cats been in lottery lock down and can't get one elite level player. They should have to suffer for a few seasons like the rest of us.
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Re: Wiggins Sweepstakes 

Post#72 » by MasterIchiro » Sun Jul 7, 2013 10:05 pm

hotrod wrote:
MasterIchiro wrote:Revised for the Pistons' Josh Smith move:

1-Celtics
2-Magic
3-Sixers
4-Suns
5-Bobcats
6-Kings
7-Jazz
8-Raptors
9-Pistons (Bobcats)
10-Pelicans (Sixers)
11-Cavs
12-Mavs
13-Blazers (Bobcats)
14-Wolves

How would you guys feel about picks 5, 9 and 13 in the 2014 draft?


This sucks. Boston goes from deep playoff runs to probably top pick in the draft. One bad season and they get a probable superstar. Cats been in lottery lock down and can't get one elite level player. They should have to suffer for a few seasons like the rest of us.


So you would rather pick 1 than picks 5, 9 and 13? Boston would take that deal in a NY second. They could rebuild in one draft. I don't think Wiggins is worth that much, unless you think he can be a superstar. But what if you traded 3 all-stars for one?
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Re: Wiggins Sweepstakes 

Post#73 » by doc.end » Sun Jul 7, 2013 11:03 pm

If you want the draft work that means the worst team getting the first pick or be more likely to get it, then you should not allow pick trading. Because that kills any purpose of the equilibrum you are trying to achieve. You can't prevent one from its stupidity/miscalculation/bad luck. I don't likethe idea of pick trading not being allowed on the other hand, it could make star trades more difficult as incoming team couldn't mortgage their future by trading multiple picks but would have to have accumulate assets first (including picking for the other team in draft of that year), so thoughtful building would be more encouraged than now and otherwise the russian way of get the stars here no matter the cost, now, I don't care about tomorrow would be a bit more dfifficult. On the other way I am not sure whether it is in league interest, I guess it is better economically for the league to have big markets/powerhouses/proven franchises succeed longterm avoiding blowouts so some kind of parity is desired as well. Of course for other teams fans it is not what we want.

I think average GB Joe has problems to distinguish between tanking and being bad (in addition to small market team/outsiders bashing). You always have to have some team which happen to be last. Now cases like Cavs are bit of problem. I guess if you can sell that to your fans and are willing to shut down your upcoming star for more ping pong balls, more power to you, you can't prevent that and although such a behaviour should not be encouraged, at least you deserved it and it may be just me but it is more bearable than the achieving parity mechanism being relied on fourteen bouncing balls more than on planning. The thing with Cavs is they are bad for a while now but not really, so often suggested counting of records from previous years doesn't help here.

I guess the problem is how many teams have shot and cases where result of one game can make a difference. The evolution from previous model to current weighted draft suggests that more power to the worst teams is desirable. I am a bit tired of new models suggessted on GB or elsewhere once in a while which represent change for the sake of change of miss the point of the draft. The problem of course is that it has to remind simple and create some suspense to sell that draft lottery event to masses (having it televized really). So good luck with comng up with something meaningful.

One thing I would like would be restrict extent of possible movements in draft order. You never know how big gaps between the worst team, second worst etc. will be any given year, but basically first team in order should not be in danger to fall considerably behind - and whoever thinks otherwise (and wants to punish those lowly "insert mocked franchise" for being bad apparently) is soft in the head. I guess drawing from 4 teams maximum at the moment could be handy - like teams 1-4 in contention for the very fist pick, 5th team + 3 losing teams of the first drawing for the second one and so on with the exception none team can fall more than three slots (like in current system) meaning the first team can pick forth in worst case scenario. The advantage would be that ending say 8th would mean only having a shot at 5th pick, not that much of an incentive so it may be better to win few more games. Now the odds:

1) keep it simple - let's say 4:3:2:1 ratio meaning the first team would have 40% shot at first pick (then 24% at second, 14.4% at third and 21.6% to be unlucky and ending with the 4th overall pick). The most "balls" would have the highest positioned team on pre-lottery draft order and so on. Formula would be like Number of pick = x, teams involved based on prelottery draft order would be x, x+1, x+2, x+3 in case of first pick and from 4th on four teams from x-3;x+3 interval but in case x-3 is involved, draw is forfeited and x-3 team gets the pick (example the very first teams was not drawed yet and gets 4th ick without drawing cause that team is not alloweed to drop further). From 12th pick on less than 4 team would be involved, only remaining lottery teams.

Problem with this is that doesn't discurage to lose to move up place or two in draft orer to have better odds.

2) Have some kind of record based formula like one chance at the pick for each loss in regular season (lockout season could be skewed then) - would be 62-61-58-57 this year - maybe counting previous season somehow as well or/and count pre trade deadline losses twice or more times (as genuine losses, not late March tanking ones) - this would mean kind of acknowledging tanking so I don't see that as a viable option.

Odds would be roughly the same for all teams involved, almost no incentive to be dead last but it may lead to race to get into worst 4 or so though.

I suggest one game difference in record could be eligible to coinflips although it could be hard to make hard rules for those blatant cases of one game losing spurts. And schedule could matter. Maybe not counting results of match(es) between two teams in question if it happened in x last weeks of the season if that result makes a difference.

Basically it all about not making an environment that gives incentive to lose a bit more in those rough edges where standings could make a difference. And make it a bit more predictible. That could come handy in pick trading when the receiveing team can guess where it could land and whether it gets conveyed without a chance mid lotterry team gets lucky and move into top3 out of blue.

I congratulate you for reading through this wall of text.
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Re: Wiggins Sweepstakes 

Post#74 » by Red Larrivee » Mon Jul 8, 2013 3:37 am

SWedd523 wrote:The league is all about parity right? Would they rather have teams tank for half a decade (because it's going to happen regardless), wallow in misery, and only have a handful of teams be relevant for that same time?

Or would they rather a team tank for 1-2 years, get a great player, and level the playing field across the league?


If your argument is for parity, then why do you hate the draft lottery? The current system is ALL about parity.

If the NBA had a set up like NBA or MLB, where the worst team gets the #1 pick, there's nothing stopping a team from tanking for multiple years in a row for young superstars. When you consider that the NBA is the most individual sport, it's not very fair.
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Re: Wiggins Sweepstakes 

Post#75 » by Kembastockton » Mon Jul 8, 2013 5:56 pm

MasterIchiro wrote:
hotrod wrote:
MasterIchiro wrote:Revised for the Pistons' Josh Smith move:

1-Celtics
2-Magic
3-Sixers
4-Suns
5-Bobcats
6-Kings
7-Jazz
8-Raptors
9-Pistons (Bobcats)
10-Pelicans (Sixers)
11-Cavs
12-Mavs
13-Blazers (Bobcats)
14-Wolves

How would you guys feel about picks 5, 9 and 13 in the 2014 draft?


This sucks. Boston goes from deep playoff runs to probably top pick in the draft. One bad season and they get a probable superstar. Cats been in lottery lock down and can't get one elite level player. They should have to suffer for a few seasons like the rest of us.


So you would rather pick 1 than picks 5, 9 and 13? Boston would take that deal in a NY second. They could rebuild in one draft. I don't think Wiggins is worth that much, unless you think he can be a superstar. But what if you traded 3 all-stars for one?


You wouldn't trade Jru Holliday, Brook Lopez, and Luol Deng for a young Kobe, Lebron, or Durant? You trade what ever you have to for a player heralded as a true franchise player.

Believe it or not whoever gets the first pick will not be giving it up for anything.
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Re: Wiggins Sweepstakes 

Post#76 » by Liver_Pooty » Mon Jul 8, 2013 6:13 pm

We could have picks 4,5,6,7,8,9,10, and no one would trade the number 1 pick next for all of them (speaking hypothetically of course).
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Re: Wiggins Sweepstakes 

Post#77 » by SpearNMgicHelmt » Mon Jul 8, 2013 6:28 pm

Quality trumps quantity in the NBA. How many games come down to the last two minutes? You want to be the team with the guy that's unstoppable on that last shot.

Also, it's invaluable to have somebody that commands a double-team. That can make the rest of the team look like stars too. So that one superstar is worth more than three good, solid players. Because he turns the average guys around him into good, solid players.
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Re: Wiggins Sweepstakes 

Post#78 » by fatlever » Sun Jul 14, 2013 12:24 am

jahill okafor is supposedly the most skilled big man in the past 20 years. that sounds like something worth tanking for. lets trade all our players for 2015 picks. /green font
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Re: Wiggins Sweepstakes 

Post#79 » by MasterIchiro » Sun Jul 14, 2013 1:41 am

If MKG doesn't improve his jumper and Cody Zeller can't hit open shots and if Biyombo is a black hole on offense then this team could easily land atop the lottery drawing for Wiggins. And we still don't have a shooting guard.
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Re: Wiggins Sweepstakes 

Post#80 » by MasterIchiro » Fri Jul 19, 2013 2:57 pm

Tankfest 2013-14

A fair amount of resentment exists among front offices trying to win basketball games in 2013-14 for those rival execs who aren't.

"When you sell failure, you can't be judged by failure," one exec said. "By doing it this way, they buy themselves a five-year cycle rather than a three-year cycle. It's about survival as much as strategy."

In other words, by selling owners on the idea that calamity must precede success, the Merchants of Tank get a pass from owners who might otherwise have a low threshold of tolerance for the volume of losses they're about to accumulate.

There are varied opinions as to whether or not decision-makers such as Philadelphia's new general manager, Sam Hinkie, are pursuing a sensible strategy. Some doff their caps to the pragmatism, boldness and, most of all, the power of persuasion required by an executive to sell 62 losses to owners who aren't accustomed to losing in life.

But others feel as if tankers are overplaying their hands. The thinking goes that tanking is all well and good when you're one of only a select group engaged in the practice (as Oklahoma City was during its construction). But when as many as a dozen teams are participating, the race to the bottom is far more competitive -- and potentially corrosive to the franchise.

"There are only three top-3 picks," one assistant general manager said. "Everyone wants to be the Thunder, but for the majority of teams, it doesn't work out that way. Meanwhile, you don't want to create a cultural malaise while you're busy driving away your fan base."

The unintended consequence of all this? The competitive balance the league purported to establish during the 2011 negotiations is as nonexistent as ever...

Talking up the 2014 draft

"Even 2003 wasn't talked about this much a year out," Houston Rockets general manager Daryl Morey said. "This is the most hyped draft since I came into the league in 2002."

The riches waiting in next June's draft have been a major tailwind for Tankfest 2013-14, and it isn't just Andrew Wiggins. Scouts love the depth from Kentucky's Julius Randle, Australia's Dante Exum, Duke's Jabari Parker, Oklahoma State's Marcus Smart, Arizona's Aaron Gordon -- and that's leaving out some guys projected by some as potential All-Stars.

The commonality most cited by scouts and execs is the maturity and versatility of the prospects.

"They've been reading ahead," said one NBA scout who has started to shift his attention toward next June. "Play multiple positions. Guard multiple positions. Do multiple things. Be serious about the work and the conditioning and don't be an a--hole." The prevailing perception is that the top of the Class of 2014 embodies these attributes.

Some of the attention on 2014 might be driven by the universal indifference to the current class ("Living up to their billing," squawked one exec). And a minority among top general managers think the 2014 crop is slightly overrated, while others refused to get sucked into irrational exuberance 11 months out.


http://espn.go.com/nba/dailydime/_/page ... daily-dime
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