ImageImage

Hornets Sign Lance Stephenson 3y/27.5 mil (p67)

Moderators: BigSlam, yosemiteben, fatlever, JDR720, Diop

ARHornet
Pro Prospect
Posts: 941
And1: 260
Joined: Apr 20, 2014
 

Re: Why we do not want Lance Stephenson to be a Hornet? 

Post#61 » by ARHornet » Sun Jun 1, 2014 5:47 pm

catch20two wrote:
ARHornet wrote:
catch20two wrote:The Pacers were winning before Stephenson started getting playing time. Let's not try to make it as if Stephenson was the reason why they were winning. Stephenson just stepped in and took shots away from Hibbert and Hill in the offense that lead them deep into the playoffs the previous years.

The Pacers made it to the ECF the 2 years that Stephenson started. They never made it that far when he wasn't playing. Stephenson is also shooting a higher percentage than Hill or Hibbert on more shots than either of them. He's a good player and would be a great addition to this team if he wasn't crazy.

But Stephenson didn't really become a factor until this year. He probably averaged like 8 points last year.

Whatever the case is I agree that Stephenson is a talent and wouldn't mind him on our team but not at no 10 mil which I doubt he'd get offered anyway. I wouldn't even want him at 8 mil unless we completely ignore the SG position until free agency. At 6 mil I would be ecstatic to have him.

Last year he scored 8.8 ppg. This year he's playing more minutes and shooting more, but he's shooting a higher percentage. So at least statistically, he's playing better now than he did last year and deserves to be shooting more than Hill or Hibbert.

I do agree that I wouldn't give 10 mil. I care more about the length of the deal though. My hope is that his stock has fallen so much that he has to take a 1 or 2 year "prove it" deal. If we sign him, that's what I want it to be. So if he's causing problems and not worth the money, then we won't be locked in long term. If he reaches his potential and stays out of trouble then we can re-sign him as our SG of the future.
User avatar
catch20two
RealGM
Posts: 21,424
And1: 4,666
Joined: Nov 04, 2012
       

Re: Why we do not want Lance Stephenson to be a Hornet? 

Post#62 » by catch20two » Sun Jun 1, 2014 8:12 pm

ARHornet wrote:
catch20two wrote:
ARHornet wrote:The Pacers made it to the ECF the 2 years that Stephenson started. They never made it that far when he wasn't playing. Stephenson is also shooting a higher percentage than Hill or Hibbert on more shots than either of them. He's a good player and would be a great addition to this team if he wasn't crazy.

But Stephenson didn't really become a factor until this year. He probably averaged like 8 points last year.

Whatever the case is I agree that Stephenson is a talent and wouldn't mind him on our team but not at no 10 mil which I doubt he'd get offered anyway. I wouldn't even want him at 8 mil unless we completely ignore the SG position until free agency. At 6 mil I would be ecstatic to have him.

Last year he scored 8.8 ppg. This year he's playing more minutes and shooting more, but he's shooting a higher percentage. So at least statistically, he's playing better now than he did last year and deserves to be shooting more than Hill or Hibbert.

I do agree that I wouldn't give 10 mil. I care more about the length of the deal though. My hope is that his stock has fallen so much that he has to take a 1 or 2 year "prove it" deal. If we sign him, that's what I want it to be. So if he's causing problems and not worth the money, then we won't be locked in long term. If he reaches his potential and stays out of trouble then we can re-sign him as our SG of the future.

I seriously doubt his agent would take a 1 or 2 year deal unless it's paying well over $10 mil.
They will wage war against the Lamb but the Lamb will triumph them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings - and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers." Revelation 17:14 (NIV)
ARHornet
Pro Prospect
Posts: 941
And1: 260
Joined: Apr 20, 2014
 

Re: Why we do not want Lance Stephenson to be a Hornet? 

Post#63 » by ARHornet » Sun Jun 1, 2014 8:37 pm

catch20two wrote:
ARHornet wrote:
catch20two wrote:But Stephenson didn't really become a factor until this year. He probably averaged like 8 points last year.

Whatever the case is I agree that Stephenson is a talent and wouldn't mind him on our team but not at no 10 mil which I doubt he'd get offered anyway. I wouldn't even want him at 8 mil unless we completely ignore the SG position until free agency. At 6 mil I would be ecstatic to have him.

Last year he scored 8.8 ppg. This year he's playing more minutes and shooting more, but he's shooting a higher percentage. So at least statistically, he's playing better now than he did last year and deserves to be shooting more than Hill or Hibbert.

I do agree that I wouldn't give 10 mil. I care more about the length of the deal though. My hope is that his stock has fallen so much that he has to take a 1 or 2 year "prove it" deal. If we sign him, that's what I want it to be. So if he's causing problems and not worth the money, then we won't be locked in long term. If he reaches his potential and stays out of trouble then we can re-sign him as our SG of the future.

I seriously doubt his agent would take a 1 or 2 year deal unless it's paying well over $10 mil.

He will if that's all he gets offered. Rumors are already circulating that the market for him isn't good. If teams have real concerns over his maturity and what he will do to their teams chemistry, then he may not get that long deal that he wants.
User avatar
Snidely FC
Head Coach
Posts: 6,225
And1: 3,490
Joined: Jan 19, 2011
Location: Asheville, NC

Re: Why we do not want Lance Stephenson to be a Hornet? 

Post#64 » by Snidely FC » Mon Jun 2, 2014 12:53 am

I've stayed out of the Stephenson conversation primarily because I just don't see a scenario where Stephenson comes to CHA.
IF he were to leave IND wouldn't it be for the bright lights of a big city where he can be the Man?
Why would he come to CHA?
Is it because he's played streetball with Kemba, or what?
User avatar
mrknowitall215
RealGM
Posts: 11,149
And1: 2,384
Joined: Dec 20, 2009

Re: Why we do not want Lance Stephenson to be a Hornet? 

Post#65 » by mrknowitall215 » Mon Jun 2, 2014 1:03 am

Snidely FC wrote:I've stayed out of the Stephenson conversation primarily because I just don't see a scenario where Stephenson comes to CHA.
IF he were to leave IND wouldn't it be for the bright lights of a big city where he can be the Man?
Why would he come to CHA?
Is it because he's played streetball with Kemba, or what?


It's very unlikely that Lance Stephenson would consider Charlotte for numerous reasons, and the most likely scenario of ifs would involve them being the only team willing to overpay in excess of at least $9 million annually for his services, and I wouldn't recommend it because although he's a well-rounded talent, he isn't the scoring punch that the Hornets are looking for

I think the infatuation of Stephenson comes amid the fact that he's probably going to be the most accessible of the top wing free-agents this offseason as a unrestricted free agent versus the restricted free-agency of Gordon Hayward
Image
User avatar
Liver_Pooty
RealGM
Posts: 40,479
And1: 16,476
Joined: Dec 29, 2008
Location: Asheville, NC
   

Re: Why we do not want Lance Stephenson to be a Hornet? 

Post#66 » by Liver_Pooty » Mon Jun 2, 2014 1:16 am

Its not if Stephenson would consider Charlotte. Its if we would consider him, which I doubt.
Balllin wrote:Zion Williamson is 6-5, with a 6-10 wingspan. I see him as a slightly better Kenneth Faried.
User avatar
mrknowitall215
RealGM
Posts: 11,149
And1: 2,384
Joined: Dec 20, 2009

Re: Why we do not want Lance Stephenson to be a Hornet? 

Post#67 » by mrknowitall215 » Mon Jun 2, 2014 1:19 am

Liver_Pooty wrote:Its not if Stephenson would consider Charlotte. Its if we would consider him, which I doubt.


If Cho don't draft a SG at #9 then I can almost promise you that Stephenson will be under consideration
Image
User avatar
Liver_Pooty
RealGM
Posts: 40,479
And1: 16,476
Joined: Dec 29, 2008
Location: Asheville, NC
   

Re: Why we do not want Lance Stephenson to be a Hornet? 

Post#68 » by Liver_Pooty » Mon Jun 2, 2014 1:21 am

mrknowitall215 wrote:
Liver_Pooty wrote:Its not if Stephenson would consider Charlotte. Its if we would consider him, which I doubt.


If Cho don't draft a SG at #9 then I can almost promise you that Stephenson will be under consideration


I think hes in consideration regardless. But im not sure if we sign him or not. Im all for it.
Balllin wrote:Zion Williamson is 6-5, with a 6-10 wingspan. I see him as a slightly better Kenneth Faried.
They_Them_Hatin
Starter
Posts: 2,014
And1: 695
Joined: Nov 05, 2012

Re: Why we do not want Lance Stephenson to be a Hornet? 

Post#69 » by They_Them_Hatin » Mon Jun 2, 2014 2:19 am

That whole team is immature but West. Their chemistry is shot. I would still take him he's a big MJ fan and I think He would take his advise.
User avatar
Joest2003
Analyst
Posts: 3,233
And1: 1,234
Joined: Jul 19, 2013
Location: Hartford, CT
   

Re: Why we do not want Lance Stephenson to be a Hornet? 

Post#70 » by Joest2003 » Mon Jun 2, 2014 3:47 am

why are people acting like the ear thing was such a big deal? Its Lebron hes the best player of this generation I see nothing wrong with going to unconventional route to try to get in his head because apparently nothing else has worked to this point. He also lead the NBA in triple doubles, thats what people should really be talking about when mentioning Lance.
User avatar
JDR720
Forum Mod - Hornets
Forum Mod - Hornets
Posts: 43,761
And1: 45,044
Joined: Jul 09, 2013
     

Re: Why we do not want Lance Stephenson to be a Hornet? 

Post#71 » by JDR720 » Mon Jun 2, 2014 3:57 am

Joest2003 wrote:why are people acting like the ear thing was such a big deal? Its Lebron hes the best player of this generation I see nothing wrong with going to unconventional route to try to get in his head because apparently nothing else has worked to this point. He also lead the NBA in triple doubles, thats what people should really be talking about when mentioning Lance.

its not just that, he got into a fight with Turner and he didn't listen to Larry Bird when he told him to stop
User avatar
mrknowitall215
RealGM
Posts: 11,149
And1: 2,384
Joined: Dec 20, 2009

Re: Why we do not want Lance Stephenson to be a Hornet? 

Post#72 » by mrknowitall215 » Mon Jun 2, 2014 4:58 am

Joest2003 wrote:why are people acting like the ear thing was such a big deal? Its Lebron hes the best player of this generation I see nothing wrong with going to unconventional route to try to get in his head because apparently nothing else has worked to this point. He also lead the NBA in triple doubles, thats what people should really be talking about when mentioning Lance.


I actually started liking Stephenson more after the blowing in LeBron James' ear & slapping him on the face ordeal. If anything I would have to say his actions to try to get in LeBron's head & the audacity that he displayed made me garner more respect for him. The things that make me wary of him though is the fact that he wasn't a consistent or prolific enough scorer on a team that lacked offense severely and the other concern was his constant flopping --- all the while staying on the floor taking himself out of the play for about 5-10 seconds
Image
Bassman
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,642
And1: 1,935
Joined: Jul 02, 2006
Location: Bye FL back to MO; NC born & bred
       

Re: Why we do not want Lance Stephenson to be a Hornet? 

Post#73 » by Bassman » Mon Jun 2, 2014 11:31 am

mrknowitall215 wrote:
Joest2003 wrote:why are people acting like the ear thing was such a big deal? Its Lebron hes the best player of this generation I see nothing wrong with going to unconventional route to try to get in his head because apparently nothing else has worked to this point. He also lead the NBA in triple doubles, thats what people should really be talking about when mentioning Lance.


I actually started liking Stephenson more after the blowing in LeBron James' ear & slapping him on the face ordeal. If anything I would have to say his actions to try to get in LeBron's head & the audacity that he displayed made me garner more respect for him. The things that make me wary of him though is the fact that he wasn't a consistent or prolific enough scorer on a team that lacked offense severely and the other concern was his constant flopping --- all the while staying on the floor taking himself out of the play for about 5-10 seconds


After the spectacle and glare from his actions, this is a young man who is ready for guidance. He knows he screwed up; this is why he is openly lobbying to stay on the Pacers (worried about not being re-signed). He has initiative...he just needs to channel it differently. If he thinks the world of MJ, then here's the chance for Mike to build up a player. Jordan was a master at intimidation, getting into your head, without doing silly stuff. MJ could take Lance under his wing, be his mentor. Reportedly he has a strong work ethic. That is why I think he is worth pursuing. He has the skills and talent to be a star; not an all-time player, but a featured player on a contending team.
I do think Indiana will likely to to sign him cheap, so that is our chance to outbid at a still reasonable but respectful level.
I continue to wait...and hope...for the return to Hornet's glory.
User avatar
mrknowitall215
RealGM
Posts: 11,149
And1: 2,384
Joined: Dec 20, 2009

Re: Why we do not want Lance Stephenson to be a Hornet? 

Post#74 » by mrknowitall215 » Mon Jun 2, 2014 11:59 am

Bassman wrote:
mrknowitall215 wrote:
Joest2003 wrote:why are people acting like the ear thing was such a big deal? Its Lebron hes the best player of this generation I see nothing wrong with going to unconventional route to try to get in his head because apparently nothing else has worked to this point. He also lead the NBA in triple doubles, thats what people should really be talking about when mentioning Lance.


I actually started liking Stephenson more after the blowing in LeBron James' ear & slapping him on the face ordeal. If anything I would have to say his actions to try to get in LeBron's head & the audacity that he displayed made me garner more respect for him. The things that make me wary of him though is the fact that he wasn't a consistent or prolific enough scorer on a team that lacked offense severely and the other concern was his constant flopping --- all the while staying on the floor taking himself out of the play for about 5-10 seconds


After the spectacle and glare from his actions, this is a young man who is ready for guidance. He knows he screwed up; this is why he is openly lobbying to stay on the Pacers (worried about not being re-signed). He has initiative...he just needs to channel it differently. If he thinks the world of MJ, then here's the chance for Mike to build up a player. Jordan was a master at intimidation, getting into your head, without doing silly stuff. MJ could take Lance under his wing, be his mentor. Reportedly he has a strong work ethic. That is why I think he is worth pursuing. He has the skills and talent to be a star; not an all-time player, but a featured player on a contending team.
I do think Indiana will likely to to sign him cheap, so that is our chance to outbid at a still reasonable but respectful level.


I guess it'll all depend on what Charlotte does in the draft in a few more weeks. If the Hornets select a shooting guard at 9th overall, there really won't be no need to sign Lance Stephenson unless they find a suitor for a Gerald Henderson dump in a trade and are willing to offer Stephenson in excess of $8 million annually for at least 3 years come July. I'm all for it, but it'll take a series of calculated moves and risk to believe that they actually can lure Stephenson to Charlotte
Image
User avatar
Joest2003
Analyst
Posts: 3,233
And1: 1,234
Joined: Jul 19, 2013
Location: Hartford, CT
   

Re: Why we do not want Lance Stephenson to be a Hornet? 

Post#75 » by Joest2003 » Mon Jun 2, 2014 1:44 pm

It also cannot be overlooked that he can guard LeBron considering any team coming out of the east will most likely havr to go through the heat.
Robot Rock
Starter
Posts: 2,387
And1: 1,119
Joined: Jan 21, 2013
Location: The 704
 

Re: Why we do not want Lance Stephenson to be a Hornet? 

Post#76 » by Robot Rock » Mon Jun 2, 2014 3:17 pm

BigSlam wrote:I think the litmus test in a situation like this is asking yourself if you could ever imagine said player being pursued by the Spurs.

If they Spurs don't want them, I don't think we should want them.


but Stephen Jackson... :wink:
User avatar
dmutombo321
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,836
And1: 394
Joined: Feb 25, 2004
Location: Charlotte

Re: Why we do not want Lance Stephenson to be a Hornet? 

Post#77 » by dmutombo321 » Mon Jun 2, 2014 4:50 pm

The RealGM article on Stephenson for anyone who missed it. Makes some valid points regarding the attention devoted to stephenson's maturity issues while the bigger risk in signing an aging veteran like Deng whose skills are in decline are ignored.:

Why Lance Stephenson Will Be Worth Every Penny
By: Jonathan Tjarks
May 31, 2014 5:24 PM EDT

Lance Stephenson became a lightning rod for criticism in this year’s Eastern Conference Finals, as if it were his fault the Indiana Pacers didn’t space the floor, never upgraded their bench and were relying on big men who couldn’t compete on both sides of the ball. While some of his on-court antics were a little over the line, it was all in good fun. Far more important is what a special basketball player he is, the type of talent that is rarely available in free agency.

Still only 23 years old, Stephenson has turned himself into one of the most well-rounded shooting guards in the NBA. At 6’5 230 with a 6’10 wingspan, he’s an elite athlete who can match up with all three perimeter positions. He can create his own shot off the dribble, stretch the floor out to the three-point line, create shots for his teammates and clean the glass at a high level. He averaged 14 points, 7 rebounds, 4.5 assists and 1 steal a game on 45% shooting in this year’s playoffs.

The only thing holding him back from stardom is opportunity. In the regular season, he took only 11 shots a game and had a usage rating of 19.4, which was tied for third highest in the starting line-up with Roy Hibbert. Paul George and David West were the first two options in Indiana - Lance never really got to show what he could do in their system. It’s simple math. What’s going to happen when a guy who shoots 49% from the field at 11 shots gets 15-17?

Even if his field goal percentage went down with more responsibility, it would have to crater for him not to be at 20+ points a game as a primary option. George took 17 shots a game while shooting 42% from the field and people said Lance was the selfish player. The reality was that he was the far better decision-maker and playmaker of the two - he lead the Pacers in assists and had an assist-to-turnover ratio of 1.7, with George lagging far behind at 1.25.

Those are the things you have to look at when projecting a younger player into a bigger role. Two years ago, James Harden averaged 16 points, 5 rebounds and 3 assists a game on 43% shooting in the playoffs for the Oklahoma City Thunder. Just like Stephenson, Harden excelled in the role he was forced to play on the team that drafted him, but he was ready for a much bigger role. Don’t mistake opportunity for talent, especially not with a 23-year-old.

That’s what makes Stephenson such a fascinating player this summer - he’s an elite talent who is an unrestricted free agent at 23. Because he was a second-round pick, he doesn’t have the same type of restrictions on his contract as guys like Gordon Hayward, Greg Monroe and Eric Bledsoe. To get one of those guys this off-season, a team would have to give up a king’s ransom in assets. The only thing Stephenson is going to cost you is money.

Adding an All-Star level talent in free agency, particularly one who can improve your team on both sides of the ball, is the quickest way to jump-start a franchise. For the most part, you have to get those types of players in trades, if you are going to get them at all. Since the vast majority of elite talent is taken in the first round, they don’t hit the market until their third contract in the NBA, when they have almost a decade’s worth of games on their legs.

That’s why free agency tends to be so dicey - only the best of the best can play at a high level well into their second decade in the NBA. Basketball is a young man’s game, so by the time a guy has reached his early 30’s, he’s well into the decline stage of his career. When a guy is declining from a peak as high as LeBron James, that’s no big deal. For just about everyone else, though, a third contract is paying them for what they were instead of what they will be.

As a rule, older players tend to do two things in the NBA - they get hurt and they get worse. The real gamble in free agency isn’t the young hot-head like Stephenson, it’s an older veteran like Luol Deng. Counting the playoffs, Deng has played over 26,000 minutes and 725 games in the NBA, most of those in Tom Thibodeau’s manic, high-intensity system. That’s an awful lot of miles already on his body and that’s before he loses a step as he moves into his 30’s.

Stephenson, in contrast, is only on his second contract in the league, so you are signing him for the prime of his career. If he doesn’t get any better, you are getting a two-way starter in his mid 20’s and a guy whose already proven he can be a key contributor on a 55+ win team. If he improves, you are getting the chance to buy low on one of the elite young players in the NBA. This is a guy who can match up physically with LeBron James and Dwyane Wade.

There’s only a small handful of players in the league you can say that about and none of them are going to be on the market anytime soon. Stephenson comes with a lot of baggage, but it’s easier to tone a guy down than to crank a guy up. And for all the talk of what he does off-the-court, he’s shown he will put the time in the gym to improve as a player. He shot 21% from three in college - not many guys turn themselves into good shooters once they are in the league.

There are some holier-than-thou folks in the media and around the league who would “never” take a chance on a rough around the edges guy like Lance Stephenson, as if they were perfect when they were 23 years old. Who knows what Stephenson will be when he is 27-28, but the odds are he will be more mature than what he is now. Just because you didn’t show any emotional growth when you were in your mid 20’s - don’t assume that holds true for everyone else.
BobsBuddy
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,377
And1: 100
Joined: Jul 27, 2008

Re: Why we do not want Lance Stephenson to be a Hornet? 

Post#78 » by BobsBuddy » Mon Jun 2, 2014 5:08 pm

:nonono: :noway: :crazy: By the time this guy is 27-28 if not in jail/rehab, he will be another Ben Gordan with a Tyrus Thomas attitude.. Please Please Spend our FA $ on the 3 position and trade or draft for our 2 position and if you want to spend some money on a free agent then spend 10-12 million a year on Parsons who can play 3 different postions.
:pray: :pray:
LofJ
RealGM
Posts: 12,814
And1: 11,019
Joined: Mar 29, 2014
   

Re: Why we do not want Lance Stephenson to be a Hornet? 

Post#79 » by LofJ » Mon Jun 2, 2014 5:28 pm

lol that the market for Stephenson will be 'soft.' He's going to get paid $10 million a year easily. I'd do it if we could move Henderson, if not I'd rather we stick with the guy we draft.
User avatar
dmutombo321
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,836
And1: 394
Joined: Feb 25, 2004
Location: Charlotte

Re: Why we do not want Lance Stephenson to be a Hornet? 

Post#80 » by dmutombo321 » Mon Jun 2, 2014 5:46 pm

This team needs an infusion of talent and it just so happens that Stephenson is the most talented young FA available who also happens to play at a position of need (SG). Houston will keep Parsons under contract next year so he wont be available.

Stephenson's problem is not that he is lazy. Unlike Tyrus or Derrick Coleman, he is by all accounts a dedicated worker when it comes to improving his game and training. His problem is that he is arrogant and somewhat eccentric. This should be factored in when pricing his FA value but should not be a disqualifier if they can land the guy at the right price. Eccentric personalities can be managed or at the very least tempered with the right veterans and staff.

Chicago did it with Rodman and Charlotte, as noted, also did at already with Jackson, a player who had a history of cold clocking fans during a game and engaging in late night gun battles outside titty bars. Blowing in LeBron's ear and making some smart-ass remarks to the media looks pale in comparison.

So far as I'm aware, despite Stephenson's well documented lapses in judgement relating to basketball etiquette, he hasnt been in any recent trouble with the law during the past two years.

Return to Charlotte Hornets