Motor Keeps Going: The Michael Kidd-Gilchrist Thread III

[JDR720]

LeBron will make it cause LeBron. Jimmy Butler, DeAndre Jordan, Ibaka.

guess at first team

CP3
Butler
Green
Leonard
M. Gasol

Allen
LeBron
Ibaka
Davis
Jordan

looking at past history, it doesn't look like its a positional thing. last year 3 forwards made 1st team, 2008 had 2 PF's and a C. 2005 had 1 guard and 4 forwards

[HornetJail]

LeBron will make it cause LeBron. Jimmy Butler, DeAndre Jordan, Ibaka.

guess at first team

CP3
Butler
Green
Leonard
M. Gasol

Allen
LeBron
Ibaka
Davis
Jordan

looking at past history, it doesn't look like its a positional thing. last year 3 forwards made 1st team, 2008 had 2 PF's and a C. 2005 had 1 guard and 4 forwards

Butler's defense hasn't been that great this season. I'd move Allen to the first team, and MKG would take his spot on the 2nd team. We all know he's going to be left off because charlotte but he definitely deserves it.

[LamarMatic7]

Not sure what other guards are worthy

forgot another good one - Khris Middleton

[James Gatz]

Not sure what other guards are worthy

forgot another good one - Khris Middleton

Haven't watched the bucks much. Is Middleton that good of a defender? Someone will offer him a near max this offseason.

[LamarMatic7]

Not sure what other guards are worthy

forgot another good one - Khris Middleton

Haven't watched the bucks much. Is Middleton that good of a defender? Someone will offer him a near max this offseason.

The Bucks being a great defensive team with a lot of long guys flying all over the court and forcing turnovers helps his cause in a way that all of them are looking good on defense. But, yeah, I like him. He holds his own and keeps guys in front of him.

Metrics help his cause as well. His on/off DefRTG is MKG-like. Team's best 96.0 when he is on the court, 103.2 (worst rating with any particular Bucks player not on the floor) when he hits the bench. In comparison, in our case with MKG it is 95.9 and 103.8.

His assignment's percentages are also down in every type of category whenever Middleton guards him.

[LamarMatic7]

BTW, relevant to the discussion at hand - watched Bucks - Grizzlies this morning. Tony Allen made a steal, threw down a dunk on the fast-break and held up one finger in the air while making his way back and yelling "motherbleeping first team".

I love that guy.

[Benjamin Linus]

Would it be crazy to leave Anthony Davis off the list? I mean, he puts up great stats but New Orleans legitimately has one of the worst defenses in the league, how much of an impact does he really have? He'll totally make it, I just don't like the idea of awarding players for their defensive efforts when their team is really bad defensively, especially if that player is a PF/C which usually has the biggest impact on a team's defense.

[LamarMatic7]

Would it be crazy to leave Anthony Davis off the list? I mean, he puts up great stats but New Orleans legitimately has one of the worst defenses in the league, how much of an impact does he really have? He'll totally make it, I just don't like the idea of awarding players for their defensive efforts when their team is really bad defensively, especially if that player is a PF/C which usually has the biggest impact on a team's defense.

Yeah, I'm also usually quick to point this out.

John Schuhmann from NBA.com has made a nice point though. Davis is rarely around the rim to protect it. That would be a place where a great defensive big can truly make his presence felt and improve his team. In a way, Monty's schemes prevent him from making such an impact.

http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2015/01/2 ... not-there/

[LamarMatic7]

BTW, relevant to the discussion at hand - watched Bucks - Grizzlies this morning. Tony Allen made a steal, threw down a dunk on the fast-break and held up one finger in the air while making his way back and yelling "motherbleeping first team".

I love that guy.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kJoFKJVca8[/youtube]

[James Gatz]

How much do we expect MKG to get on his next contract?

We can extend him this summer and I hope we do so. Otherwise teams will have mad amount of cap to throw his way. I think we all value him very much but I'm sure some would be upset if we paid him 12+ mil a year. I'd be stoked if he re-signed at 5 years/60 million.

[JDR720]

Well with just about everyone being worth a max these days, probably close to a max. We gave Kemba 12 and MKG is better than he is,

[James Gatz]

Well with just about everyone being worth a max these days, probably close to a max. We gave Kemba 12 and MKG is better than he is,

I'd agree but what matters more is his market. He is still a defensive wing who can't shoot 3s. If we had to give him something close to max I'd be fine with it.

[Liver_Pooty]

I'm willing to give MKG whatever he wants.

[Liver_Pooty]

Draymond Green has been rumored of getting a max offer sheet from Detroit when the time comes, along with other teams as well.

MKG will be better than him very, very soon.

[LamarMatic7]

I do understand that there's an age difference between the two of them and it would be easier for any of the 450 players to play in Golden State, I honestly do. But I think that some people on here do underestimate Draymond Green.

He's a capable three point shooter;
He's an excellent passer, not only benefiting from playing for the Dubs but making assists in tight areas, catching the ball on the move in the pick-n-roll and passing it further in one motion;
He can legitimately play center in some situations, creating a nightmare 5-man unit for opposing teams. It's no sparse happening either. Golden State's sixth most used line-up features Draymond as the center.

Those three aspects of the game are something that MKG isn't even close to being able to do.

[BeesWax]

I do understand that there's an age difference between the two of them and it would be easier for any of the 450 players to play in Golden State, I honestly do. But I think that some people on here do underestimate Draymond Green.

He's a capable three point shooter;
He's an excellent passer, not only benefiting from playing for the Dubs but making assists in tight areas, catching the ball on the move in the pick-n-roll and passing it further in one motion;
He can legitimately play center in some situations, creating a nightmare 5-man unit for opposing teams. It's no sparse happening either. Golden State's sixth most used line-up features Draymond as the center.

Those three aspects of the game are something that MKG isn't even close to being able to do.

The thing is I am not sure you won't be able to see MKG do everything defensively that Green can do now in 2 years. They were about the same size at the combine. Standing reach and everything was so very close. If MKG adds some muscle as he gets older he could easily do anything that Green can do currently since he is a better athlete and just as long. MKG does not shoot as well but has much better handles already. Despite the age difference they are not very far off right now.

[Hornet Mania]

I do understand that there's an age difference between the two of them and it would be easier for any of the 450 players to play in Golden State, I honestly do. But I think that some people on here do underestimate Draymond Green.

He's a capable three point shooter;
He's an excellent passer, not only benefiting from playing for the Dubs but making assists in tight areas, catching the ball on the move in the pick-n-roll and passing it further in one motion;
He can legitimately play center in some situations, creating a nightmare 5-man unit for opposing teams. It's no sparse happening either. Golden State's sixth most used line-up features Draymond as the center.

Those three aspects of the game are something that MKG isn't even close to being able to do.

I don't think people necessarily underestimate Green, they're just saying he's not so much better of a player that four additional years of development couldn't put MKG in the same tier. Your points are all true now, at age 25, but you could just as easily twist them like:

-Draymond Green wasn't anywhere close to the 3pt shooter he is today at age 21, or else he would never have fallen to the 2nd round.
-He was a better passer than MKG but I don't think it was by a big enough gap to say it's impossible to reach given four years of development, he's just making smart passes because he knows the offense not playing point-forward.
-If MKG played for the Dubs he'd be at the 4 a ton, they play Barnes at that spot for stretches if I remember correctly, but I agree that playing the 5 effectively is something only Green will probably ever be able to boast. On the other hand Green can't guard PGs at all, so while his positional versatility skews towards the frontcourt MKG's skews towards the backcourt.

Green is an awesome find by Golden State, and they developed him (or perhaps, to be fair, he worked his tail off) and ended up with a really great player. It's presumptive to say MKG will be as good or better than Green, but it's equally presumptive to say that MKG will never develop significantly past where he is at age 21. MKG fans will say he certainly will, Green proponents will say it's impossible, neither side has much solid evidence to back up their argument. Green was not this good at age 21, that's just a fact. He developed, and now he's a valuable piece. I think MKG can do the same, but only time will tell. I will say that I certainly think MKG has a bigger defensive impact than Green already, and that will only grow as time goes on. Our top-5 unit going to shambles instantly every time he misses games is evidence of that.

[JDR720]

I really wanted Green in the 2nd round, so mad when we picked Jeff Taylor above him. of course, who knows how Green would've developed here but just about anything is better than Taylor.

[LamarMatic7]

I do understand that there's an age difference between the two of them and it would be easier for any of the 450 players to play in Golden State, I honestly do. But I think that some people on here do underestimate Draymond Green.

He's a capable three point shooter;
He's an excellent passer, not only benefiting from playing for the Dubs but making assists in tight areas, catching the ball on the move in the pick-n-roll and passing it further in one motion;
He can legitimately play center in some situations, creating a nightmare 5-man unit for opposing teams. It's no sparse happening either. Golden State's sixth most used line-up features Draymond as the center.

Those three aspects of the game are something that MKG isn't even close to being able to do.

The thing is I am not sure you won't be able to see MKG do everything defensively that Green can do now in 2 years. They were about the same size at the combine. Standing reach and everything was so very close. If MKG adds some muscle as he gets older he could easily do anything that Green can do currently since he is a better athlete and just as long. MKG does not shoot as well but has much better handles already. Despite the age difference they are not very far off right now.

Yeah, sure. That's why I didn't really mention defense, apart from Green playing center which is something I'm not even sure that I'd want MKG to attempt to do.

ugh... as far as Mike's handles go... I think they're rather mediocre, but it seems like some like them more than I do.

[BlackOutBuzz]

Yeah their combine measurements were damn near identical, though MKG was the better athlete while Green obviously had a bit more girth to him. The latter is basically the only reason MKG wouldn't be able to guard small centers like Green does.