The Steve Clifford Thread 2.0 - Off the Cliff we go

[EwingSweatsALot]

The thing going against Clifford is new parts that play multiple positions. There's versatility but it's going to take longer to figure out player combos, offense to defense / defense to offense substitutions. Could be too late by the time it's sorted.

Hopefully it doesn't take him 50 games like it has the last two years.

[Eoghan]

Clifford will just let injuries decide the best rotations for him. That's what worked last year.

[catch20two]

Clifford will just let injuries decide the best rotations for him. That's what worked last year.

And the year before that.

[RollingWave]

I don't think the comparison with Monty Williams make any sense.

1. Monty was in office for 5 season, so even if we use the same standard for Clifford he still have quiet a bit of ways to go.

2. The Pelicans finished 8th and was swept out of the playoff with someone who's pretty obviously a top 10 player and a likely top 5 player going forward. there's no one who's even a top 30 player on the Hornets right now, forget about the Uni-brow, is Kemba / Jefferson clearly better than Jrue Holiday / Eric Gordan / Tyreke Evans? or even Omer Asik and Ryan Anderson? the talent level on the Pelicans is very high. the fit is poor and Williams have not been able to really solve it at all that is the issue. (well and they also play in a completely absurd division which doesn't help.)

3. Monty was billed as a defensive coach but the Pelicans have been terrible defensively. they have gradually got worse in their tenure especially after the first year (when they had Chris Paul / Emaka Okafor and Trevor Ariza.), meanwhile, most people thought it was a miracle that any team with Al Jefferson playing heavy minutes manage to be a top 5 defense. meanwhile, last year the Pelicans with Holiday / Davis / Asik was a bottom 5 defense.


If anything has defined the Jordan ownership era, it's irrational reflexive moves screwing up long term planning, that still seem to show up from time to time nowadays but Cho has seem to manage some semblance of a consistent plan for awhile now and for the first time in forever you could see a little bit of a direction for this team. stability is a major issue for non big market team (it is for them too really, just that they have bigger margin of error.) I would say that unless this season is a total disaster (like zero improvement or worse without major injury problems.) there's no reason I can see for Cho to not extend Clifford, granted, Jordan might not have the same patience.

[tondi123]

Clifford will just let injuries decide the best rotations for him. That's what worked last year.

Sad but true. Also don't forget trades. Trades help him realize who sucks balls and shouldn't be playing since that player is no longer on the team. Its amazing how often a player who hasn't sniffed the court has come in after an injury or trade and outperformed Cliffs pet. It certainly seems to take something other than piss poor play to make a change.

[mrknowitall215]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/At_The_Hive/status/620639876619337728[/tweet]
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[fatlever]

Rick Bonnell ‏@rick_bonnell 35m35 minutes ago

Steve Cifford reminded media he doesn't think 10-man rotations work. In other words, he's not going to play people out of obligation.

Clifford back on his 9-man rotation rant... so who gets iced from the lineup? Marvin, Lamb, Hawes or Frank?

Kemba, Batum, MKG, Zeller, Jefferson, Lin (that's 6 that are pretty much guaranteed minutes).

[JDR720]

have we ever had a 9 man rotation? we have decent depth, might as well use it.

[mrknowitall215]

have we ever had a 9 man rotation? we have decent depth, might as well use it.

Clifford started using 8-9 (mostly 9) man rotations towards the end of this past season. I hope he stick to this mantra. 5-in-5-out rotations are old-fashioned and too conventional in today's modern NBA

[mrknowitall215]

Rick Bonnell ‏@rick_bonnell 35m35 minutes ago

Steve Cifford reminded media he doesn't think 10-man rotations work. In other words, he's not going to play people out of obligation.

Clifford back on his 9-man rotation rant... so who gets iced from the lineup? Marvin, Lamb, Hawes or Frank?

Kemba, Batum, MKG, Zeller, Jefferson, Lin (that's 6 that are pretty much guaranteed minutes).

I think Kaminsky or Marvin Williams will take the ax. Clifford has mentioned Lamb on occasion as wing depth, but he's kind of tip-toed around where Kaminsky or Williams will be in the rotation so far

[Braggins]

have we ever had a 9 man rotation? we have decent depth, might as well use it.

Clifford started using 8-9 (mostly 9) man rotations towards the end of this past season. I hope he stick to this mantra. 5-in-5-out rotations are old-fashioned and too conventional in today's modern NBA

I think that was only because we were ravaged with injuries. We've almost always had a 10 man rotation even though he constantly talks about how he thinks they don't work and prefers 9 man rotations. Its always been 5-in 5-out as well. I really don't understand what we're supposed to think when he says this stuff. Maybe third season is the charm.

[yosemiteben]

He never really got a full shot at a second season, guys were dropping like flies all season long.

[fatlever]

My 9 Man Rotation (small forward spot is trickiest) - Cliff will have to make conscious decisions to split up MKG/Batum so that usually, at least one of them is in the game. Lamb gets 4 minutes at small forward when neither MKG or Batum is in the game (probably playing with a Kemba, Lin, Lamb lineup in that case). Batum should be first to the bench so they can he first back in the game to play with 2nd unit. 2nd unit would look like: Lin, Lamb, Batum, Kaminsky, Hawes (assuming all 4 other starters are out). Lin and Kemba play 14 mpg next to each other. MKG plays 6 minutes a game at PF in a small ball lineup. Zeller gets the small ball shot at center until Frank shows he can handle the physicality of minutes at 5. Small ball works better with Frank at 5 though, something like Kemba, Lin/Lamb, Batum, MKG, Frank. Jefferson's 30 mpg solely dependent on him getting his fat ass in shape. If not, he drops down to about 24 mpg with Frank/Zeller getting more small ball minutes (doubt we see more than 14 minutes of Hawes regardless of how fat and out of shape Jefferson is)

PG: Kemba (34), Lin (14)
SG: Batum (18), Lin (14), Lamb (14)
SF: MKG (28), Batum (16), Lamb (4)
PF: Zeller (22), Kaminsky (20), MKG (6)
C: Jefferson (30), Hawes (14), Zeller (4)

Minutes
Kemba: 34
Batum: 34
MKG: 34
Jefferson: 30
Lin: 28
Zeller: 26
Kaminsky: 20
Lamb: 18
Hawes: 14

First off bench: Marvin (or for certain matchups), Daniels, Roberts, Hairston, Harrison, random big to be named later

[Braggins]

Thats the 9 id roll with for sure with basically the same minute allocation. Id look to give Frank some more minutes over Al and some of Hawes as well, but its not likely. I hope to god Frank is the real deal and hes ready to contribute right away.

[Vanderbilt_Grad]

I feel like you guys underestimate Hawes.

Also in pitching the 9 man rotation Cliff specifically called out that having only 14 min just wasn't enough for a player to really get into the flow of a game. When you set min rotations you probably want more than that as your floor for a guy.

[tondi123]

Yeah if our 9th man is averaging significant minutes that's a pretty big indictment of the guys ahead of him.

[spaceballer]

Cliff said that he prefers 9-man rotations over 10-man rotations because he doesn't believe that guys can get into rhythm and play well if they only get like 14 minutes a game or less.

I do wonder though if a shorter rotation means guys will spend more time in the same lineup with each other and thus develop chemistry and better team defense by having more time to know the defensive tendencies of the players next to them in the lineup.

[Mystical Apples]

Hard to say about 9 man rotation right now. I think Marvin is out pretty quickly via trade or battles lamb for pt. Clifford talked yesterday about Frank's versatility on offense and his pick and roll defense. Locks for PT:

Kemba, Lin, Lamb, Batum, MKG, Cody, Frank, Al. Hawes gets run at least initially.

[Mystical Apples]

Thats the 9 id roll with for sure with basically the same minute allocation. Id look to give Frank some more minutes over Al and some of Hawes as well, but its not likely. I hope to god Frank is the real deal and hes ready to contribute right away.

I think the Lin signing indicates a double down on Kaminsky and they'll play minutes together as second unit.

[HornetJail]

have we ever had a 9 man rotation? we have decent depth, might as well use it.

two years ago before we traded Sessions for Gary Neal, we mainly played with Al, McBob, MKG, Hendo, Kemba, Sessions, Biz, Cody, and one of Tolliver/CDR.

Post Gary Neal trade, we played 10 or even 11 players.