For Years People on here said...

[yosemiteben]

no organization with this profile is going to promise wins or playoffs or any tangible accomplishment that scrutiny can be applied against, when the alternative is vapid, hollow "set the culture, work hard every day" bs that we've been hearing every coach say forever. you could take Dunlaps hiring article and strike out and replace the current names and you'd think the article was run last summer.

this team exists simply as a vessel to funnel taxpayer money from Charlotteans to some rich guys, and float along aimlessly using California/NY/Boston revenue sharing and luxury tax penalties to pay the roster. the real teams just need some Generals to play against every once in a while to properly give their achievements some scaling

if you think the guy thats famous for shorting Gamestop or some random nepo baby from the Hawks org has some special insight in how to run a successful organization or basketball team you're in for a rough decade. what they are proven good at is funneling money from other people to themselves whilst producing nothing of value, so thats kind of what I expect going forward from this org

So if they make moves to improve the team will you walk this back? Because saying they don't care about improving the team and don't care about winning seems like a really odd take to me.

Why did they hire (and substantially expand) a completely new medical staff, commit major personal funds to build a totally new practice facility, turn over the coaching staff, etc. if they're only profit minded?

And your proof that you are correct is that, what, they didn't do a trade you wanted 3 months before the trade deadline? Or that they were willing to believe Mark was healthy?

[KembaWalker]

no organization with this profile is going to promise wins or playoffs or any tangible accomplishment that scrutiny can be applied against, when the alternative is vapid, hollow "set the culture, work hard every day" bs that we've been hearing every coach say forever. you could take Dunlaps hiring article and strike out and replace the current names and you'd think the article was run last summer.

this team exists simply as a vessel to funnel taxpayer money from Charlotteans to some rich guys, and float along aimlessly using California/NY/Boston revenue sharing and luxury tax penalties to pay the roster. the real teams just need some Generals to play against every once in a while to properly give their achievements some scaling

if you think the guy thats famous for shorting Gamestop or some random nepo baby from the Hawks org has some special insight in how to run a successful organization or basketball team you're in for a rough decade. what they are proven good at is funneling money from other people to themselves whilst producing nothing of value, so thats kind of what I expect going forward from this org

So if they make moves to improve the team will you walk this back? Because saying they don't care about improving the team and don't care about winning seems like a really odd take to me.

Why did they hire (and substantially expand) a completely new medical staff, commit major personal funds to build a totally new practice facility, turn over the coaching staff, etc. if they're only profit minded?

And your proof that you are correct is that, what, they didn't do a trade you wanted 3 months before the trade deadline? Or that they were willing to believe Mark was healthy?

let me think..whats the more likely reason a couple of Northeastern hedge fund managers would buy a North Carolina sports team

a. its insanely easy money

or

b. they are passionate about the sport of basketball and the city of Charlotte NC and have the secret sauce to building a winning professional basketball organization
gee i wonder

"b-b-but they promised to pay some of the practice facility!"
yeah, and my barbershop offers me a free beer. expenses are baked in, not some incredible display of generosity. the Hornets go to the NBA creditors for $50 million at an incredibly generous terms, the city gives them $50 million taxpayer money and a free plot of premium land uptown. They'd have to be dumb not to push for these "investments"

[KingCat]

Give me the situation we are in now over the Kemba years every single time. Thanks to awful drafting we were the most untalented team in the league who couldn't even make a competitive move if we wanted to for most of the 2010s.

Now we actually have a handful of desirable players and even a few with superstar potential.

If a player that could make us competitive actually became available, we would be in a position to go for them.

[amcoolio]

Using that logic it’s basically never justifiable to ever try to win ever, there’s always a draft there’s always a prospect coming up. Yall talk about no shortcuts but the real shortcut here is thinking the only two acceptable outcomes for a season are a top 5 pick or making the conference finals and acting like this team is gonna somehow transition instantly from one to the other without some playoff learning

Nobody said we'd be transitioning to the East finals next year with Flagg or Harper. Just that we now have a core of guys who can grow into something sustainable and it is time to start making moves towards that goal.

Do we have a core of guys? Even if healthy is this core a top 20 core in the NBA when they get to their prime? I don't think so.

Say what you want of Tre Young, but at least he pulled the Hawks to the playoffs. I really don't know if LaMelo has that in him. Even when healthy. I realize that Young had better role players, but at some point you have to stop making excuses for LaMelo. I think most realgmers would easily take the Hawks core over the Hornets, and that is really sad. And the Heat have a coach and GM that is better than pretty much any of our players so nearly everyone would take the Heat going forward even if its just Bam. So what core are we better than? Wizards, Nets, maybe Bulls? Would the Hornets core even be picked over the Jazz? The Rockets and Spurs easily passed us over, the Magic passed us over in 2 drafts, the Pistons have about equal a core but are playing better and more composed. The Pacers don't have much but even without much are consistently better every season than the lame duck Hornets.

The only hope for this piss poor franchise is getting lottery luck to get a great player. We'll be bad forever until we get that generational player to change the culture. There is nothing telling me otherwise. Selling me on renewed hope of better owners/a new shiny GM doesn't do it for me and shouldn't do it for anyone here. Yall are abused housewives

[yosemiteben]

no organization with this profile is going to promise wins or playoffs or any tangible accomplishment that scrutiny can be applied against, when the alternative is vapid, hollow "set the culture, work hard every day" bs that we've been hearing every coach say forever. you could take Dunlaps hiring article and strike out and replace the current names and you'd think the article was run last summer.

this team exists simply as a vessel to funnel taxpayer money from Charlotteans to some rich guys, and float along aimlessly using California/NY/Boston revenue sharing and luxury tax penalties to pay the roster. the real teams just need some Generals to play against every once in a while to properly give their achievements some scaling

if you think the guy thats famous for shorting Gamestop or some random nepo baby from the Hawks org has some special insight in how to run a successful organization or basketball team you're in for a rough decade. what they are proven good at is funneling money from other people to themselves whilst producing nothing of value, so thats kind of what I expect going forward from this org

So if they make moves to improve the team will you walk this back? Because saying they don't care about improving the team and don't care about winning seems like a really odd take to me.

Why did they hire (and substantially expand) a completely new medical staff, commit major personal funds to build a totally new practice facility, turn over the coaching staff, etc. if they're only profit minded?

And your proof that you are correct is that, what, they didn't do a trade you wanted 3 months before the trade deadline? Or that they were willing to believe Mark was healthy?

let me think..whats the more likely reason a couple of Northeastern hedge fund managers would buy a North Carolina sports team

a. its insanely easy money

or

b. they are passionate about the sport of basketball and the city of Charlotte NC and have the secret sauce to building a winning professional basketball organization
gee i wonder

"b-b-but they promised to pay some of the practice facility!"
yeah, and my barbershop offers me a free beer. expenses are baked in, not some incredible display of generosity. the Hornets go to the NBA creditors for $50 million at an incredibly generous terms, the city gives them $50 million taxpayer money and a free plot of premium land uptown. They'd have to be dumb not to push for these "investments"

I am duly noting your theory that they don't care about the team or building a winning franchise. I think it's completely unsubstantiated and personally I don't believe it, but I get why you hate everything they do now.

[JDR720]

Do we have a core of guys? Even if healthy is this core a top 20 core in the NBA when they get to their prime? I don't think so.

Say what you want of Tre Young, but at least he pulled the Hawks to the playoffs. I really don't know if LaMelo has that in him. Even when healthy. I realize that Young had better role players, but at some point you have to stop making excuses for LaMelo. I think most realgmers would easily take the Hawks core over the Hornets, and that is really sad. And the Heat have a coach and GM that is better than pretty much any of our players so nearly everyone would take the Heat going forward even if its just Bam. So what core are we better than? Wizards, Nets, maybe Bulls? Would the Hornets core even be picked over the Jazz? The Rockets and Spurs easily passed us over, the Magic passed us over in 2 drafts, the Pistons have about equal a core but are playing better and more composed. The Pacers don't have much but even without much are consistently better every season than the lame duck Hornets.

The only hope for this piss poor franchise is getting lottery luck to get a great player. We'll be bad forever until we get that generational player to change the culture. There is nothing telling me otherwise. Selling me on renewed hope of better owners/a new shiny GM doesn't do it for me and shouldn't do it for anyone here. Yall are abused housewives

The thing is we don't really know how good our core is because they've barely played together.

[SWedd523]

I mean 4 years ago when we first picked up Gordon, we had a pretty competitve team that would have avoided the playin if Lamelo didn't get hurt towards the end of his rookie year.

The next year they had similar success but the East improved a significant amount so we came up short again.

Then the following offseason, one of our most key players, Miles Bridges, showed his true colors and that along with injury plague forced us into another rebuild.

I think it is bad faith to say we have been tanking since the end of the Kemba era.

I mean... that's not a good thing given the pathetic lack of success in that time frame. other teams have torn down, rebuilt, torn down, rebuilt, and seen more success in the same time Charlotte has been on double secret tank probation

It's laughable how below mediocre the franchise has been since coming back. Almost has to be intentional to be that good at being that bad for such a consistent time

[amcoolio]

Do we have a core of guys? Even if healthy is this core a top 20 core in the NBA when they get to their prime? I don't think so.

Say what you want of Tre Young, but at least he pulled the Hawks to the playoffs. I really don't know if LaMelo has that in him. Even when healthy. I realize that Young had better role players, but at some point you have to stop making excuses for LaMelo. I think most realgmers would easily take the Hawks core over the Hornets, and that is really sad. And the Heat have a coach and GM that is better than pretty much any of our players so nearly everyone would take the Heat going forward even if its just Bam. So what core are we better than? Wizards, Nets, maybe Bulls? Would the Hornets core even be picked over the Jazz? The Rockets and Spurs easily passed us over, the Magic passed us over in 2 drafts, the Pistons have about equal a core but are playing better and more composed. The Pacers don't have much but even without much are consistently better every season than the lame duck Hornets.

The only hope for this piss poor franchise is getting lottery luck to get a great player. We'll be bad forever until we get that generational player to change the culture. There is nothing telling me otherwise. Selling me on renewed hope of better owners/a new shiny GM doesn't do it for me and shouldn't do it for anyone here. Yall are abused housewives

The thing is we don't really know how good our core is because they've barely played together.

Sorry, but injuries aren't an excuse for ineptitude. They are a part of the game. Philly knew what they were getting into with Embiid. Charlotte knew what they were getting into with Hayward. Didn't have to give him that contract. They haven't taken injuries or training seriously, ever... its not just bad luck.

[Chapelchilla]

I do not think what happened under Cho/Kupchak/Jordan ownership is what is happening now. I have definitely HOPED that the previous regimes had a plan or a clue because I am a life long fan, season ticket holder and generally optimistic. But, I am also realistic and in retrospect, Jordan never wanted to follow through on a real plan - lose now to win later or spend any $ to improve the team, arena, road hotels, med staff or practice courts.
A lot of this rot was not always visible from our perspective. The new guys have been a LOT more transparent, have published a road map and tangibly started on that process. They even sat down with the season ticket holders and answered a bunch of tough questions directly from us. They really do seem different and I believe that they mean it.
But, I totally understand the skepticism and disbelief. We have been unlucky, dumb, badly run, injury cursed and cheap for way too long.
BUT - We do have some nice young talent and a ton of picks, cap flexibility and a new management structure. Hopefully, we are in for a quick turn for the better and some sustained success.

[yosemiteben]

Do we have a core of guys? Even if healthy is this core a top 20 core in the NBA when they get to their prime? I don't think so.

Say what you want of Tre Young, but at least he pulled the Hawks to the playoffs. I really don't know if LaMelo has that in him. Even when healthy. I realize that Young had better role players, but at some point you have to stop making excuses for LaMelo. I think most realgmers would easily take the Hawks core over the Hornets, and that is really sad. And the Heat have a coach and GM that is better than pretty much any of our players so nearly everyone would take the Heat going forward even if its just Bam. So what core are we better than? Wizards, Nets, maybe Bulls? Would the Hornets core even be picked over the Jazz? The Rockets and Spurs easily passed us over, the Magic passed us over in 2 drafts, the Pistons have about equal a core but are playing better and more composed. The Pacers don't have much but even without much are consistently better every season than the lame duck Hornets.

The only hope for this piss poor franchise is getting lottery luck to get a great player. We'll be bad forever until we get that generational player to change the culture. There is nothing telling me otherwise. Selling me on renewed hope of better owners/a new shiny GM doesn't do it for me and shouldn't do it for anyone here. Yall are abused housewives

The thing is we don't really know how good our core is because they've barely played together.

Sorry, but injuries aren't an excuse for ineptitude. They are a part of the game. Philly knew what they were getting into with Embiid. Charlotte knew what they were getting into with Hayward. Didn't have to give him that contract. They haven't taken injuries or training seriously, ever... its not just bad luck.

Pretty sure JDR was referring to Melo and Mark. You asked if we have a core, JDR was saying we don't know because they haven't been healthy at the same time.

[KembaWalker]

So if they make moves to improve the team will you walk this back? Because saying they don't care about improving the team and don't care about winning seems like a really odd take to me.

Why did they hire (and substantially expand) a completely new medical staff, commit major personal funds to build a totally new practice facility, turn over the coaching staff, etc. if they're only profit minded?

And your proof that you are correct is that, what, they didn't do a trade you wanted 3 months before the trade deadline? Or that they were willing to believe Mark was healthy?

let me think..whats the more likely reason a couple of Northeastern hedge fund managers would buy a North Carolina sports team

a. its insanely easy money

or

b. they are passionate about the sport of basketball and the city of Charlotte NC and have the secret sauce to building a winning professional basketball organization
gee i wonder

"b-b-but they promised to pay some of the practice facility!"
yeah, and my barbershop offers me a free beer. expenses are baked in, not some incredible display of generosity. the Hornets go to the NBA creditors for $50 million at an incredibly generous terms, the city gives them $50 million taxpayer money and a free plot of premium land uptown. They'd have to be dumb not to push for these "investments"

I am duly noting your theory that they don't care about the team or building a winning franchise. I think it's completely unsubstantiated and personally I don't believe it, but I get why you hate everything they do now.

i'm just not going to give them any unearned credit for anything until i see some tangible results to be positive about.

things i would not give them credit for:

winning a lottery, that would be pure luck, which is something previous regimes never had on their side to be fair

hiring and firing generic nobody GMs/coaches - this is standard stuff, now if we were to ever grab a true impact front office person or coach of some kind of renown, i'm open to reconsideration

leeching taxpayer money

spouting quotes from the barnes and noble self help section


things i would give them credit for:

players showing a dramatic increase in developmental pace ahead of league peers

luring high caliber impact players in free agency

fielding an expensive payroll in the name of competitiveness

making a difficult trade even when it the right thing to do

of course, they haven't had much opportunity yet to do these things. maybe they will. until they do, I'm going to judge them off their backgrounds and apply occams razor and assume the foreign hedge fundies are working in their own self interest and not Charlotteans.

[amcoolio]

"We dont' know because they havent been healthy" isn't a core. It is serious copium that anyone here would trust them to be healthy together for 65 games a season going forward. So its not a core.

[Walt Cronkite]

I mean... that's not a good thing given the pathetic lack of success in that time frame. other teams have torn down, rebuilt, torn down, rebuilt, and seen more success in the same time Charlotte has been on double secret tank probation

It's laughable how below mediocre the franchise has been since coming back. Almost has to be intentional to be that good at being that bad for such a consistent time

Were Bob Johnson and then Michael Jordan not known to be very cheap owners? Didn’t MJ at least consistently put relatives and lackeys into office roles? Could this impact the regular disappointments?

The clippers sucked forever with Donald Sterling. Are they still the awful franchise they were? They aren’t champions or anything, but I think the impression of the franchise being a punchline has shifted over the years since the ownership situation improved.

[fatlever]

I do think it's fair to say that this new ownership and new front office is different and feels different than anything under Michael Jordan. It does feel like we have some sort of a plan which is all we ever really wanted with Jordan was to pick a direction and stick with it for more than one year. And it seems like we've also started to identify an Identity as a team in terms of the types of players we We'll add to the roster. It seems that the front office is going out of their way to target hardworking, maniacal, high energy types to bring into the Organization. That's at least a direction which is more than we ever had before.

[Walt Cronkite]

Sorry, but injuries aren't an excuse for ineptitude. They are a part of the game. Philly knew what they were getting into with Embiid. Charlotte knew what they were getting into with Hayward. Didn't have to give him that contract. They haven't taken injuries or training seriously, ever... its not just bad luck.

Haven’t they overhauled the medical staff and facilities and give public updates about players these days?

[KembaWalker]

I mean... that's not a good thing given the pathetic lack of success in that time frame. other teams have torn down, rebuilt, torn down, rebuilt, and seen more success in the same time Charlotte has been on double secret tank probation

It's laughable how below mediocre the franchise has been since coming back. Almost has to be intentional to be that good at being that bad for such a consistent time

Were Bob Johnson and then Michael Jordan not known to be very cheap owners? Didn’t MJ at least consistently put relatives and lackeys into office roles? Could this impact the regular disappointments?

The clippers sucked forever with Donald Sterling. Are they still the awful franchise they were? They aren’t champions or anything, but I think the impression of the franchise being a punchline has shifted over the years since the ownership situation improved.

you know what it took for the Clippers to flip their reputation? about a decade of top 5 payrolls and a fully self funded 2 billion dollar arena and practice facility. i can absolutely guarantee that will not be a model followed by this team lol

[Walt Cronkite]

the foreign hedge fundies are working in their own self interest and not Charlotteans.

Could you share with the rest of us rubes who the populist NBA owners are?

[Walt Cronkite]

you know what it took for the Clippers to flip their reputation? about a decade of top 5 payrolls and a fully self funded 2 billion dollar arena and practice facility. i can absolutely guarantee that will not be a model followed by this team lol

How long have you given them to turn it around, close to a decade or nah?

[KembaWalker]

you know what it took for the Clippers to flip their reputation? about a decade of top 5 payrolls and a fully self funded 2 billion dollar arena and practice facility. i can absolutely guarantee that will not be a model followed by this team lol

How long have you given them to turn it around, close to a decade or nah?

doesnt matter in the scope we are talking about here. these guys are not particularly well capitalized AND they don't know ball. Ishbia has $10 billion and knows ball. Ballmer has infinite money. These are the guys are owners are competing against, if you subscribe to the theory that they actually care about winning. They aren't going to be able to hang. But it doesn't matter because thats not why they are in it

[amcoolio]

Sorry, but injuries aren't an excuse for ineptitude. They are a part of the game. Philly knew what they were getting into with Embiid. Charlotte knew what they were getting into with Hayward. Didn't have to give him that contract. They haven't taken injuries or training seriously, ever... its not just bad luck.

Haven’t they overhauled the medical staff and facilities and give public updates about players these days?

Well it certainly isn't going well, I feel like this has been the most injury riddled team in team history - and players who don't normally get injured are injured like Miles Bridges and Tre Mann