The Tre Johnson Thread

[Diop]

I would say Wiggins is closer to Cason and Caruso... then the #3 pick is to Caruso and Cason in terms of value.

I will reiterate my point again, I don't think teams are watching games and thinking role players are impacting the way they view what they should do at #3 which was what your initial point seemed to be pointing to.

i think they absolutely could be watching games and seeing the huge impact Caruso has and saying if we can get one of those, we absolutely need to.

If you just worry about scoring stars, you get a Phoenix Suns team, if you worry about making a team that's going to make it as hard as possible for the opposition you make a Thunder team.

[wilson115]

"tre's 25.8% big time pass rate ranks him fifth among the 22 players i've charted so far"

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[fatlever]

a pro kon post disguised as a tre post
or an anti vj post disguised as a tre post

[yosemiteben]

I'm no stat guru, but a metric of "big time passing" feels super made up to me.

[wilson115]

a pro kon post disguised as a tre post
or an anti vj post disguised as a tre post

[fatlever]

a pro kon post disguised as a tre post
or an anti vj post disguised as a tre post

that wasnt aimed at you...
was pointing out the chart is better news for kon than tre and worse news for vj than tre
the same chart could be used to make pro/con arguments for several players

[fatlever]

basically if you showed me that chart and asked me to draw conclusions. i would have come up with (in this order)
1. kon is a great passer
2. vj is a bad passer
3. why is harper so low?
4. ace isnt as bad as we thought
5. what is wrong with kaspar?
6. oh yeah, tre, well done

[Diop]

basically if you showed me that chart and asked me to draw conclusions. i would have come up with (in this order)
1. kon is a great passer
2. vj is a bad passer
3. why is harper so low?
4. ace isnt as bad as we thought
5. what is wrong with kaspar?
6. oh yeah, tre, well done

it also says of the 22 players he's charted so far, so people not on the list could also be way higher or lower.

its odd

[JMAC3]

I think % is pretty pointless, why not just show me raw numbers who had more Big Time Passes? Apparently Ace had 21 BTP vs Jaku with 106 BTP... but just reading the chart Ace had a higher % of BTP. Also, seems a bit too eye of the beholder to be a useful stat to me. He personally grades every pass whether it was a big time pass or not and that leaves too much interpretation.

I feel like you can just watch 15 mins of film get a pretty good idea of the type of passer most prospects are.

[Rich4114]

I listened to the buzz beat pod and they spent pretty much the entire show talking about Tre. Plowright is really REALLY high on Tre but I was convincingly talked out of Tre by the end when they spent time talking about how he never goes to the rim, doesn't draw fouls, has only had 7 dunks this past season despite being 6'5" and doesn't play defense. And it's not necessarily because I don't think Tre will be good. He looks like he's going to be an elite shooter and someone that will be a reliable bucket from 3 and in transition. Kind of like a younger Seth Curry. But is that the most valuable thing at #4? And even if I felt like that kind of shooting was really hard to find, how do you put another turnstile who can't (or doesn't) get to the rim, finish, draw fouls in between LaMelo and Miller whose weaknesses are basically the same?

[Braggins]

I listened to the buzz beat pod and they spent pretty much the entire show talking about Tre. Plowright is really REALLY high on Tre but I was convincingly talked out of Tre by the end when they spent time talking about how he never goes to the rim, doesn't draw fouls, has only had 7 dunks this past season despite being 6'5" and doesn't play defense. And it's not necessarily because I don't think Tre will be good. He looks like he's going to be an elite shooter and someone that will be a reliable bucket from 3 and in transition. Kind of like a younger Seth Curry. But is that the most valuable thing at #4? And even if I felt like that kind of shooting was really hard to find, how do you put another turnstile who can't (or doesn't) get to the rim, finish, draw fouls in between LaMelo and Miller whose weaknesses are basically the same?

The way I put it is that it seems like Tre's strengths are the narrowest of the main guys being discussed. Ace's game is very narrow on offense, but he has so much better tools and has the potential to be a good defender, which is why I think I worry a tad less about him.

[fatlever]

That's why I've said that if you draft Tre and he really is as good as you hope he is, then there probably is some roster reshuffling that needs to happen. I don't see any world where melo - tre - miller Can thrive in a playoff setting.

If we're drafting him you're hoping that he's a very coachable player and one that understands and is willing to accept that he needs to get to the rim more, learn to draw fouls, cut out some of the midrange stuff, and be a more willing passer. He clearly has the passing chops it's just whether or not he's willing to pass rather than taking another midrange jumper. no ceilings guys Seemed to believe that he would be a more willing passer when surrounded by better teammates.

[JMAC3]

https://www.fiba.basketball/en/history/276-fiba-u19-basketball-world-cup/208303/teams/usa#statistics

Tre Johnson played point guard on this U19 Fiba team according to Vecenie/No Ceilings over Dylan Harper. Averaged more ppg than Dylan Harper in this tournament as well. Talked about how close Tre was with Harper and Ace at the combine all week and guys want to be friends with Tre.

I also think it will be interesting watching Tre both on offense and defense in a scaled down role in the NBA. With less offensive burden does he take on tougher defensive assignments? At 6-6 in shoes, 6-10 wingspan Fastest lane agility score at combine and 37.5 inch vert I think he has the tools to be a good defender.

[Diop]

That's why I've said that if you draft Tre and he really is as good as you hope he is, then there probably is some roster reshuffling that needs to happen. I don't see any world where melo - tre - miller Can thrive in a playoff setting.

If we're drafting him you're hoping that he's a very coachable player and one that understands and is willing to accept that he needs to get to the rim more, learn to draw fouls, cut out some of the midrange stuff, and be a more willing passer. He clearly has the passing chops it's just whether or not he's willing to pass rather than taking another midrange jumper. no ceilings guys Seemed to believe that he would be a more willing passer when surrounded by better teammates.

unless you're going for the Bucks 00 team. Allen, Cassell and Big Dog Robinson. Cassell was pretty crafty getting free throws though

[fatlever]

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[driveandkick]

I listened to the buzz beat pod and they spent pretty much the entire show talking about Tre. Plowright is really REALLY high on Tre but I was convincingly talked out of Tre by the end when they spent time talking about how he never goes to the rim, doesn't draw fouls, has only had 7 dunks this past season despite being 6'5" and doesn't play defense. And it's not necessarily because I don't think Tre will be good. He looks like he's going to be an elite shooter and someone that will be a reliable bucket from 3 and in transition. Kind of like a younger Seth Curry. But is that the most valuable thing at #4? And even if I felt like that kind of shooting was really hard to find, how do you put another turnstile who can't (or doesn't) get to the rim, finish, draw fouls in between LaMelo and Miller whose weaknesses are basically the same?

He will fit right in

[Rich4114]

I mean, points in the plus column for Tre based on this interview. It's not sexy but it's the reality of the way the NBA is managed on the court right now. The best players understand how to manipulate the refs into giving them extra free throws.

[fatlever]

I mean, points in the plus column for Tre based on this interview. It's not sexy but it's the reality of the way the NBA is managed on the court right now. The best players understand how to manipulate the refs into giving them extra free throws.

I would hope that Tre has enough basketball awareness to understand that one of the reasons SGA gets to the line so many times is because he drives into the paint constantly. Tre isn't going to get 8 free throws a game by just shooting jumpers. This is the biggest part of his offensive game that he needs to improve, rim pressure. He clearly has the physical tools to do it it's just a mentality - why do I need to drive to the rim when I'm already open? = shooters mentality... as soon as I cross half court I'm open - the dell curry Philosophy.

[EmpireFalls]

I hate to do the whole Miller v Scoot argument again but I think this draft is showing why guys of Miller’s archetype (tall skinny wing players who are snipers from the outside but struggle driving and going in the paint) are not actually that hard to find, especially in drafts. Tre can come in and be basically just as good as Brandon is in that off-ball shooter role on offense.

[countryboi]

Tre shoot nearly 40 percent on off the pull up 3 on 11 attempts? that's a super power. he would have so many driving lanes shooting like that. that is some elite level shooting