The Steve Clifford Thread 2.0 - Off the Cliff we go

Post #601 » by **JDR720** » Sat Mar 17, 2018 9:56 pm

^ Thats basically saying evaluating the older players is more important than the young ones.

You should already know what the older players are, you dont need to evaluate them.

Hornet Mania · Post #602 » by **Hornet Mania** » Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:04 pm

That is just meaningless word salad from Cliff.

Vanderbilt_Grad · Post #603 » by **Vanderbilt_Grad** » Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:05 pm

Obviously coaches like Pop disagree.

Post #604 » by **JDR720** » Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:19 pm

and the "If you cant be organized" part of the comment is directly Cliff's fault. he is the coach make them organized.

HornetJail · Post #605 » by **HornetJail** » Sun Mar 18, 2018 2:59 am

yosemiteben wrote:

Read on Twitter

i legitimately think Clifford is trying to get fired at this point. If you can't play a young player without **** up everything else, you are not an NBA coach. Just about every other coach in the league attempts to find some amount of playing time for young talent.

Braggins · Post #606 » by **Braggins** » Sun Mar 18, 2018 3:36 am

I saw that on twitter earlier today. Its not even surprising to hear him say something like that.

How is he supposed to properly evaluate MCW when Monk is out there stinking up the joint?

Post #607 » by **yosemiteben** » Sun Mar 18, 2018 3:48 am

I agree with the sentiment generally, but I also think Monk isn't NBA ready and don't wish we had force fed him minutes before now.

Vanderbilt_Grad · Post #608 » by **Vanderbilt_Grad** » Sun Mar 18, 2018 4:14 am

Monk isn't NBA ready for the role Cliff wanted him to play. And that's the problem in a nutshell.

Post #609 » by **yosemiteben** » Sun Mar 18, 2018 11:59 am

I wouldn't necessarily make that qualifier.

Bassman · Post #610 » by **Bassman** » Sun Mar 18, 2018 12:05 pm

Monk resembles a kid when a freshman at college. His game is immature. Yes he’s only a year removed from that, but clearly he’s learned little. His body needs to grow up. Agree he wasn’t ready for significant minutes but he still needed work. It’s time for Cliff to go.

Post #611 » by **fatlever** » Sun Mar 18, 2018 3:40 pm

Monk should have been in Greensboro. He clearly wasn't or isn't ready to get any significant minutes in the NBA. So why the hell did we not have him up with Coach Gillespie in Greensboro. If we don't trust the coaches in Greensboro, that we put there, then what the hell are we doing?

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Post #612 » by **fatlever** » Sun Mar 18, 2018 3:42 pm

At the very least we could have sent monk-up to Greensboro while we were at home for home stands on non-game days in order to get some needed game experience. We could have had him come with the team on road trips in order to get some much-needed time with the veterans to learn how to handle yourself on the road and had to be a professional. There was a way for us to mix in the best of both worlds. Bacon should have been in Greensboro All Year unless there was a significant injury to one of our wings.

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Post #613 » by **yosemiteben** » Sun Mar 18, 2018 4:39 pm

Is there any team in the NBA that gives high picks PT on their G league teams? I thought the league was being sold as a way to do that, but as things sit now have we gotten any value at all out of the Swarm?

At this point feels more like a way to try to grab market share and expand the fan base than to help with player development.

Vanderbilt_Grad · Post #614 » by **Vanderbilt_Grad** » Sun Mar 18, 2018 5:07 pm

yosemiteben wrote:

Read on Twitter

There were some folks that agreed with Cliff here, but I want to post some of the other responses.

Read on Twitter

And with all that out of the way my own thoughts.

First I think that Frank was addressing Monk in particular here. He's basically saying that if Monk is going to launch up an ill-advised shot early in the clock and not run an offense then he's screwing the other guys on the team. There is absolutely some truth to that.

Second, I think that some guys in NY took it personally and that's one reason they were fired up and the Hornets lost.

Finally, I think that the quote is super revealing of Cliff himself. He is really old school - feeling like guys who have been around for a while have somehow earned it - and that rookies have to earn it in order to make it. It's one reason he's not great at developing guys overall, that's not his focus and his bias.

Cliff has been the best coach the team has had since the Bobcat's return. He was right about needing more 3 point shooting. He deserves a good deal of credit for the early winning records here. He also deserves plenty of blame for what's happening now. I'm more convinced now than ever that he was the wrong guy at the wrong time.

Vanderbilt_Grad · Post #615 » by **Vanderbilt_Grad** » Sun Mar 18, 2018 5:11 pm

yosemiteben wrote:Is there any team in the NBA that gives high picks PT on their G league teams? I thought the league was being sold as a way to do that, but as things sit now have we gotten any value at all out of the Swarm?

At this point feels more like a way to try to grab market share and expand the fan base than to help with player development.

The only one that comes to mind is Justin Jackson, though there might be others. I think it's a matter of perception - the player looks at it as a failure if they are send to the G league - the FO looks like they made a bad pick - and if the player does really well in G league, which most of them do, then the coach looks bad.

We also saw what happened with Monk and Bacon in our G league team, they just jacked up a million shots and didn't really seem to blend into the team. No structure.

Eoghan · Post #616 » by **Eoghan** » Sun Mar 18, 2018 6:26 pm

If legendary X's and O's coach Dwayne Casey can incorporate young guys into winning sides than surely Rick Bonnell's man-crush Cliffy can.

Robot Rock · Post #617 » by **Robot Rock** » Sun Mar 18, 2018 6:29 pm

Merely having not released Monk proves Michael Jordan is a terrible GM.

Hornet Mania · Post #618 » by **Hornet Mania** » Sun Mar 18, 2018 7:20 pm

At this point has anyone begun to wonder if Cliff's on the hot seat? Even when we struggled early in the year, and dropped multiple games to squads like Chicago, I never doubted he would be back next year because the guys seemed to buy in ad MJ had always been vocally supportive. Even when Cho was let go it seemed like Cliff would get to ride out the last year of his deal just because he had the locker room on his side.

After the last few games I've begun to question my assumptions. The team hasn't been giving it their all, the competitive fire is dying out. I wonder if that change MJ's calculus at all? It's one thing to win 35 games with everyone buying in and then building on that, it's another matter entirely to skid your way to 35 games by finishing the year 5-15 with players visibly dogging it. Can MJ really bring back Cliff if we finish the year ugly?

catch20two · Post #619 » by **catch20two** » Sun Mar 18, 2018 8:30 pm

Hornet Mania wrote:Can MJ really bring back Cliff if we finish the year ugly?

Yes, especially if they don’t have a strong candidate in mind that they believe would consider taking the job.

I remember when Clifford took his indefinite leave with “mental health issues” that Paul Silas was giddy during pregame shows about his son possibly taking over as head coach at the end of the season. He had a big smile on his face saying “we’ll see, we’ll see”. I hope that’s not the case either.

HornetJail · Post #620 » by **HornetJail** » Sun Mar 18, 2018 8:59 pm

catch20two wrote:
Hornet Mania wrote:Can MJ really bring back Cliff if we finish the year ugly?

Yes, especially if they don’t have a strong candidate in mind that they believe would consider taking the job.

I remember when Clifford took his indefinite leave with “mental health issues” that Paul Silas was giddy during pregame shows about his son possibly taking over as head coach at the end of the season. He had a big smile on his face saying “we’ll see, we’ll see”. I hope that’s not the case either.

I'd be somewhat fine with Silas having a season without Clifford, forcing him to come up with his own game plan. I'd prefer a completely different look on the staff, but if we're not doing that, then give me an independent Silas trial run over another year of this flaming turd. Silas' interim performance was likely heavily influenced by Clifford. Silas' head was in the right place in some ways- we looked for 3s more, he toyed with different lineups, etc but ultimately he was still running Clifford's doomed game plan.