BrandHIM Miller: The Brandon Miller Thread

[SWedd523]

So he's tall and he can shoot, just like LaMelo. Nothing about how he struggles to score in the half court without being assisted just like LaMelo.

One rim attacker in Bridges is putting a lot on a guy that has been out an entire season that we are hoping will be the same player he was before.

There's a reason Bridges and LaMelo look great together. It's because their strengths and weaknesses complement one another.

It's 2023 bro nobody is winning championships with a rim attacker based offense. 1 is enough in today's NBA.

This is a shooters league if you don't understand that then there is no need to keep debating with you.

The Nuggets were near the bottom of the league in 3 point attempts per game. What wins is a team that can score and defend in multiple different ways. A team that can find a way to win when shots aren't falling. A team that lives and dies by 3 pointers isn't winning a championship.

Having the most skilled big man of all time, who is a significantly better shooter than the guy you want to draft, tends to make life a bit easier for everyone around him.

You said it. Versatility is great. What happens when Scoot doesn't have the ball in his hands? Nobody is going to respect his jumper. He's going to need a team tailored around his strengths. They wanna take Scoot? That's fine. They need to be prepared to turn Melo into a SG and pull the ball out of his hands when they're on the floor together.

I'm not sure how comfortable I am with that.

[LofJ]

It's 2023 bro nobody is winning championships with a rim attacker based offense. 1 is enough in today's NBA.

This is a shooters league if you don't understand that then there is no need to keep debating with you.

The Nuggets were near the bottom of the league in 3 point attempts per game. What wins is a team that can score and defend in multiple different ways. A team that can find a way to win when shots aren't falling. A team that lives and dies by 3 pointers isn't winning a championship.

Having the most skilled big man of all time, who is a significantly better shooter than the guy you want to draft, tends to make life a bit easier for everyone around him.

You said it. Versatility is great. What happens when Scoot doesn't have the ball in his hands? Nobody is going to respect his jumper. He's going to need a team tailored around his strengths. They wanna take Scoot? That's fine. They need to be prepared to turn Melo into a SG and pull the ball out of his hands when they're on the floor together.

I'm not sure how comfortable I am with that.

This is an argument I see sense in and agree with.

The argument that Miller is a better fit with LaMelo however is one that doesn't hold water. They have similar strengths and weaknesses, they are not great complements to one another.

[SWedd523]

The Nuggets were near the bottom of the league in 3 point attempts per game. What wins is a team that can score and defend in multiple different ways. A team that can find a way to win when shots aren't falling. A team that lives and dies by 3 pointers isn't winning a championship.

Having the most skilled big man of all time, who is a significantly better shooter than the guy you want to draft, tends to make life a bit easier for everyone around him.

You said it. Versatility is great. What happens when Scoot doesn't have the ball in his hands? Nobody is going to respect his jumper. He's going to need a team tailored around his strengths. They wanna take Scoot? That's fine. They need to be prepared to turn Melo into a SG and pull the ball out of his hands when they're on the floor together.

I'm not sure how comfortable I am with that.

This is an argument I see sense in and agree with.

The argument that Miller is a better fit with LaMelo however is one that doesn't hold water. They have similar strengths and weaknesses, they are not great complements to one another.

But what are their duplicative strengths? Being tall and being plus shooters?

That's... not what I would personally call a bad thing lol

Otherwise they don't play anything alike.

Melo is a savant with the ball in his hands and creates magic through chaos. That chaos allows guys like Mark to find openings to lobs and dump offs, allows Miles to attack secondary closeouts and get downhill to the cup, allows PJ to find open space on scrambling defenses.

Nobody goes "Oh damn, we're adding another tall shooter who isn't a trainwreck on defense"

Again, I lean slightly towards Scoot myself, but there are significant concessions that must be made from a roster standpoint in order to maximize what he brings to the table, and I personally don't see Mark, Miles, and potentially Melo as good fits long term.

That issue simply doesn't arise with Miller, on any team in the league.

[amcoolio]

Read on Twitter

Odd how we saw no photos of Scoot or Miller in our gear, but every single damn other workout for Charlotte is promoted online

[KingCat]

Read on Twitter

Odd how we saw no photos of Scoot or Miller in our gear, but every single damn other workout for Charlotte is promoted online

Hornets marketing team are sure doing a great job in hyping fans up for a potential franchise changing pick...

[JMAC3]

The Nuggets were near the bottom of the league in 3 point attempts per game. What wins is a team that can score and defend in multiple different ways. A team that can find a way to win when shots aren't falling. A team that lives and dies by 3 pointers isn't winning a championship.

Reg. Season
Nuggets were 26th/30th in attempts
18th in makes
4th in percentages

Nuggets were 15th/16th in attempts
10th in makes
3rd in percentages

So yeah they didn't shoot as many probably because Jokic is their leading scorer, but overall they were a top 5 shooting team in percentages for both playoffs and Reg season. To argue shooting wasn't a strength for them would be a weird move. Especially since all 5 of their starters can shoot.

Murray 40% from deep
Kcp 42% from deep
porter 41.4% from deep
Gordon 34.7% from deep
Jokic 38% from deep

Bruce Brown 35.8% from deep
Braun 35.4% from deep

[JMAC3]

The Nuggets were near the bottom of the league in 3 point attempts per game. What wins is a team that can score and defend in multiple different ways. A team that can find a way to win when shots aren't falling. A team that lives and dies by 3 pointers isn't winning a championship.

Reg. Season
Nuggets were 26th/30th in attempts
18th in makes
4th in percentages

Nuggets were 15th/16th in attempts
10th in makes
3rd in percentages

So yeah they didn't shoot as many probably because Jokic is their leading scorer, but overall they were a top 5 shooting team in percentages for both playoffs and Reg season. To argue shooting wasn't a strength for them would be a weird move. Especially since all 5 of their starters can shoot.

Murray 40% from deep
Kcp 42% from deep
porter 41.4% from deep
Gordon 34.7% from deep
Jokic 38% from deep

Bruce Brown 35.8% from deep
Braun 35.4% from deep

30 teams in the NBA, here is how playoff teams vs non-playoff teams looked when it comes to 3pt%.
3pt% rank- outcome
1. playoffs
2. playoffs
3. playoffs
4. playoffs
5. playoffs
6. playoffs
7. playoffs
8. missed playoffs
9. playoffs
10. playoffs
11. missed playoffs
12. playoffs
13. playoffs
14. missed playoffs
15. missed playoffs
16. missed playoffs
17. missed playoffs
18. missed playoffs
19. playoffs
20. missed playoffs
21. playoffs
22. missed playoffs
23. playoffs
24. missed playoffs
25. playoffs
26. missed playoffs
27. playoffs
28. missed playoffs
29. missed playoffs
30. missed playoffs

11 of the top 13 teams shooting wise made playoffs, but yeah shooting isn't that important...

[KingCat]

The Nuggets were near the bottom of the league in 3 point attempts per game. What wins is a team that can score and defend in multiple different ways. A team that can find a way to win when shots aren't falling. A team that lives and dies by 3 pointers isn't winning a championship.

Reg. Season
Nuggets were 26th/30th in attempts
18th in makes
4th in percentages

Nuggets were 15th/16th in attempts
10th in makes
3rd in percentages

So yeah they didn't shoot as many probably because Jokic is their leading scorer, but overall they were a top 5 shooting team in percentages for both playoffs and Reg season. To argue shooting wasn't a strength for them would be a weird move. Especially since all 5 of their starters can shoot.

Murray 40% from deep
Kcp 42% from deep
porter 41.4% from deep
Gordon 34.7% from deep
Jokic 38% from deep

Bruce Brown 35.8% from deep
Braun 35.4% from deep

30 teams in the NBA, here is how playoff teams vs non-playoff teams looked when it comes to 3pt%.
3pt% rank- outcome
1. playoffs
2. playoffs
3. playoffs
4. playoffs
5. playoffs
6. playoffs
7. playoffs
8. missed playoffs
9. playoffs
10. playoffs
11. missed playoffs
12. playoffs
13. playoffs
14. missed playoffs
15. missed playoffs
16. missed playoffs
17. missed playoffs
18. missed playoffs
19. playoffs
20. missed playoffs
21. playoffs
22. missed playoffs
23. playoffs
24. missed playoffs
25. playoffs
26. missed playoffs
27. playoffs
28. missed playoffs
29. missed playoffs
30. missed playoffs

11 of the top 13 teams shooting wise made playoffs, but yeah shooting isn't that important...

Brother no one is saying that. This is the type of misquoting that makes these conversations pointless

[JDR720]

The point is other things besides 3pt shooting are important too. Look at Boston, all they can do is bomb 3's and when they aren't falling, they can't score. The same happened with Miami. And GS.

On the other side of that, Denver walked through the playoffs partially because Jokic murdered everyone in the paint and Murray was great shooting in general, especially from midrange. They're also great playmakers.

[JMAC3]

The point is other things besides 3pt shooting are important too. Look at Boston, all they can do is bomb 3's and when they aren't falling, they can't score. The same happened with Miami. And GS.

On the other side of that, Denver walked through the playoffs partially because Jokic murdered everyone in the paint and Murray was great shooting in general, especially from midrange. They're also great playmakers.

Great, but those teams made the ECF, Finals and Multiple Titles... Not sure I am going to avoid that type of play.

Teams that shoot well are typically good, something we need to be for we are worried about being great. Seen that said multiple times on this board.

Last year we were 29th in shooting.
We had 1 guy shoot above 35%.
If you take Scoot and add Bridges to the mix that probably adds two more guys below 35%.

[JDR720]

My primary issue with drafting Miller is that he has a lot of the same strengths and weaknesses as LaMelo. They're both great shooters, but neither can put pressure on the rim. They're also both skinny and easy to push around. Miller does not complement LaMelo that well on offense, they duplicate each other if anything. Scoot's strengths complement LaMelo more than Miller's.

Melo is basically a combination of Miller & Scoot. The shooting of Miller + the passing of Scoot.

As for who fits better, I think it's Scoot.

Take away Melo's passing & ball handling, and you pretty much have Miller.

Scoot meanwhile is good at things Melo isn't good at. Like scoring in the paint & midrange offense.

But at this point, I'm expecting us to trade for Ingram or someone. The team wants to contend for the playoffs, and they probably think a fringe All-Star like him is better than a #2 pick.

[JDR720]

Great, but those teams made the ECF, Finals and Multiple Titles... Not sure I am going to avoid that type of play.

Teams that shoot well are typically good, something we need to be for we are worried about being great. Seen that said multiple times on this board.

Last year we were 29th in shooting.
We had 1 guy shoot above 35%.
If you take Scoot and add Bridges to the mix that probably adds two more guys below 35%.

And the season before we were one of the top shooting teams in the league with pretty much the same roster. It's funny how having everyone injured and Clifford as your coach can tank an offense from borderline elite to terrible.

But lastly, nobody is saying shooting isn't important, but other things are too. Look at the Kings, they statistically had the best offense ever and neither of their top 2 players are good shooters. They got great shooting from the role players as Sabonis/Fox sets them up for easy shots.

[Rich4114]

I’m super paranoid Millers upside is 2022 Kelly Oubre

[SWedd523]

My primary issue with drafting Miller is that he has a lot of the same strengths and weaknesses as LaMelo. They're both great shooters, but neither can put pressure on the rim. They're also both skinny and easy to push around. Miller does not complement LaMelo that well on offense, they duplicate each other if anything. Scoot's strengths complement LaMelo more than Miller's.

Melo is basically a combination of Miller & Scoot. The shooting of Miller + the passing of Scoot.

As for who fits better, I think it's Scoot.

Take away Melo's passing & ball handling, and you pretty much have Miller.

Scoot meanwhile is good at things Melo isn't good at. Like scoring in the paint & midrange offense.

But at this point, I'm expecting us to trade for Ingram or someone. The team wants to contend for the playoffs, and they probably think a fringe All-Star like him is better than a #2 pick.

The passing/playmaking gap between Melo and Scoot is much bigger than the shooting gap between Melo and Miller.

There isn't a single team in the league who says no to more shooting. There are definitely teams who don't want to add another ball dominator.

Does Melo work "well enough" off ball? Sure. Is he a generational talent with the ball in his hands? Yes.

Does Scoot work well enough off ball? Not really at this point.

Only one ball to go around. There's a reason why guys like Westbrook, Wall, and (thus far) Morant have struggled to find post season success.

Scoot better be a **** stud or turn into a legit threat from range or else they're shooting themselves in the foot pushing Melo to the 2.

[JMAC3]

Melo is basically a combination of Miller & Scoot. The shooting of Miller + the passing of Scoot.

As for who fits better, I think it's Scoot.

Take away Melo's passing & ball handling, and you pretty much have Miller.

Scoot meanwhile is good at things Melo isn't good at. Like scoring in the paint & midrange offense.

But at this point, I'm expecting us to trade for Ingram or someone. The team wants to contend for the playoffs, and they probably think a fringe All-Star like him is better than a #2 pick.

Really simplistic view, but sure.

I wish LaMelo was as good on defense as Miller. Miller can guard 2-4, Melo can basically guard nobody right now.
Miller also .329 FTr, vs LaMelo .200 FTr . Lack of getting to the line is one of Lamelo's worst traits.

Miller only had 4 or more fouls in 5 of 37 games, smart defender. Something LaMelo struggles with.

[JDR720]

The passing/playmaking gap between Melo and Scoot is much bigger than the shooting gap between Melo and Miller.

There isn't a single team in the league who says no to more shooting. There are definitely teams who don't want to add another ball dominator.

Does Melo work "well enough" off ball? Sure. Is he a generational talent with the ball in his hands? Yes.

Does Scoot work well enough off ball? Not really at this point.

Only one ball to go around. There's a reason why guys like Westbrook, Wall, and (thus far) Morant have struggled to find post season success.

Scoot better be a **** stud or turn into a legit threat from range or else they're shooting themselves in the foot pushing Melo to the 2.

Again, you need more than shooting. Versatility is important. And you can find shooting without spending the #2 overall pick on a 3&D player. If Miller were, say, 6'6 instead of 6'9, would anyone view him as a top 3 pick?

How do we know Scoot can't play off ball? He didn't have anyone else on the Ignite to play make and as was posted previously, they didn't shoot 3's either.

If people are going to make the argument that Miller had to carry a "bad" Alabama team, which is why he struggled against good teams. Can we also say Scoot's team wasn't very good and he had to carry too much of the load?

[KingCat]

I’m super paranoid Millers upside is 2022 Kelly Oubre

Same. I'm just straight up more impressed with what Scoot brings to the table.

Im not quiet sure what makes Miller stand out in comparison to prospects of the past similar to him. Really feeling like he will be another Cam Johnson which is great for an 8th pick, but not sure about 2.

[JMAC3]

Again, you need more than shooting. Versatility is important. And you can find shooting without spending the #2 overall pick on a 3&D player. If Miller were, say, 6'6 instead of 6'9, would anyone view him as a top 3 pick?

Well it is good Miller is more than shooter than huh?
-
SEC Player of the year
SEC REG Season/Tourney Champ
SEC Leading Scorer
4th in rpg in conf
10th in blocks in conf.
1st in threes made
6th in Free throws made.

We aren't arguing to take Grady Dick 2nd overall, but that is how you are trying to position your argument.

[SWedd523]

The passing/playmaking gap between Melo and Scoot is much bigger than the shooting gap between Melo and Miller.

There isn't a single team in the league who says no to more shooting. There are definitely teams who don't want to add another ball dominator.

Does Melo work "well enough" off ball? Sure. Is he a generational talent with the ball in his hands? Yes.

Does Scoot work well enough off ball? Not really at this point.

Only one ball to go around. There's a reason why guys like Westbrook, Wall, and (thus far) Morant have struggled to find post season success.

Scoot better be a **** stud or turn into a legit threat from range or else they're shooting themselves in the foot pushing Melo to the 2.

Again, you need more than shooting. Versatility is important. And you can find shooting without spending the #2 overall pick on a 3&D player.

Right, and you can find Jokic in the second round. I don't really get the point you're trying to get at?

You can find dudes who can run an offense on the scrap pile as well. The Hornets have been doing it every year.

If Miller were, say, 6'6 instead of 6'9, would anyone view him as a top 3 pick?

If Wemby had one arm, would anyone view him as a top 3 pick? If Scoot weighed 160lb, would anyone view him as a top 3 pick? I'm not trying to be a dick here but, again, what?!

How do we know Scoot can't play off ball? He didn't have anyone else on the Ignite to play make and as was posted previously, they didn't shoot 3's either.

We don't know either way. We're looking at available data and projecting it to the current landscape of the NBA.

Typically, if you want to be a threat off ball as a perimeter player, it basically starts with the ability to shoot. Do we need to go back down the road of Scoot not having the volume or percentages to realistically say he's going to be a threat from range any time soon? Add that to the fact that he's going to have negative size, simply by being a PG sized PG, and you're reducing the "vErSaTiLiTy" that he brings because unless he has the ball in his hands, he's not going to be a size/shooting mismatch.

Miles gets away with being a poor shooter because he's big, strong, and plays above the rim. It's simply a lot harder to do that as a PG.

If people are going to make the argument that Miller had to carry a "bad" Alabama team, which is why he struggled against good teams. Can we also say Scoot's team wasn't very good and he had to carry too much of the load?

I don't really give a **** about the makeup of their teams nor the success they did or did not find. That really has no bearing whatsoever on how I project them as players in the NBA. Nobody is pretending like the G League is designed to maximize team success. It's a "showcase" league for a reason.

[Liver_Pooty]

Again, you need more than shooting. Versatility is important. And you can find shooting without spending the #2 overall pick on a 3&D player. If Miller were, say, 6'6 instead of 6'9, would anyone view him as a top 3 pick?

Well it is good Miller is more than shooter than huh?
-
SEC Player of the year
SEC REG Season/Tourney Champ
SEC Leading Scorer
4th in rpg in conf
10th in blocks in conf.
1st in threes made
6th in Free throws made.

We aren't arguing to take Grady Dick 2nd overall, but that is how you are trying to position your argument.

Some are acting like we're about to take Corey Kispert with the 2nd pick.