Kon Air: The Kon Knueppel Thread

[fatlever]

I think there's a good bit of gray area between "rooting for him to fail so you can tell everyone that you were right" and "never wanted the team to draft him, think he's not that good, the wrong pick, and not acting like it's sunshine and daisies just because he's on the team"

yeah maybe... but...
I think it's one thing to say hey I don't agree with this pick. I think it was the wrong pick. We'll look back on this day 4 years from now and see that the correct pick should have been XYZ.
Versus a non stop constant barrage of disparaging comments after every single comment bit of news, or games. To the point where acting like he is just an absolute garbage player barely worthy of a 1st round pick.
So yes I think there is a subset of posters on this board that are actively rooting for him to fail so that they can say that they were right. I think some people would rather be right about him being terrible than to have kon at least be a solid pick.
I have no doubt that if he plays tonight and doesn't have a good game that the pitchforks will be out in full force, And then if he does have a good game it will just be whatever it's summer league he still sucks.
Can we at least give this guy a year and a half to decide Whether or not he was a terrible pick?
And what makes this probably more difficult as he's never probably going to be the player that puts up gaudy stats... So even if he does end up being a good pick it's probably going to be a lot of him making other people better and having mediocre stats. And that will be compared against guys putting up big stats on bad teams as the ultimate comparison. Like I'm pretty sure there's not a world where three years from now Kon is averaging more points than either Ace or Tre. not gonna happen because that's never going to be his role. I'm going to accept anything less regardless of how he plays or fits in with the team or how the team plays when he's on the court.
It's not too dissimilar from the moose versus mark comments last year. Mark clearly had more talent and he put up really good numbers 15 and 10 on good percentages. But the Hornets were unquestionably, without a doubt, a better team when Moose was on the floor.
So it's possible this could be a sum of the parts situation, but looking at it in a vacuum black and white...???
I don't know if he was the right pick or the wrong pick. I have stated my preference numerous times that my number one option would have been do what it takes to trade up to 3 to get VJ and then I probably would have taken Tre, then kon. I mostly was just not interested in adding Ace to this team, as We discussed at length, pre-draft. But I'm 100 percent on board with him now and I'm going to support this dude and I hope he absolutely kills it. And I think people writing off the pick before he's played 1 second of actual NBA games is a little bit ridiculous. can we just at least give this guy some time?
He may not have been the absolute best pick in hindsight. we won't know that for several years. but, I certainly don't think this is some apocalyptic pick on the likes of other Hornets busts.

my comment that sparked this was literally "why are everyones expectations so low, why is EVERYONE seemingly not holding him to the standard of other recent 4th overall picks" i didnt even say anything myself. i just think its funny that Kon and Liam are being bucketed together as basically equivalent prospects by nearly everyone (not just me) already. i didn't even disparage him. im being told to NOT hold him to the recent bars set by Amen, Scottie, Castle at his slot while simultaneously being told to stop saying hes a crappy pick. pick a lane lol

Come on man,... you have been nonstop trashing him since predraft. This didn't start today.

[KembaWalker]

yeah maybe... but...
I think it's one thing to say hey I don't agree with this pick. I think it was the wrong pick. We'll look back on this day 4 years from now and see that the correct pick should have been XYZ.
Versus a non stop constant barrage of disparaging comments after every single comment bit of news, or games. To the point where acting like he is just an absolute garbage player barely worthy of a 1st round pick.
So yes I think there is a subset of posters on this board that are actively rooting for him to fail so that they can say that they were right. I think some people would rather be right about him being terrible than to have kon at least be a solid pick.
I have no doubt that if he plays tonight and doesn't have a good game that the pitchforks will be out in full force, And then if he does have a good game it will just be whatever it's summer league he still sucks.
Can we at least give this guy a year and a half to decide Whether or not he was a terrible pick?
And what makes this probably more difficult as he's never probably going to be the player that puts up gaudy stats... So even if he does end up being a good pick it's probably going to be a lot of him making other people better and having mediocre stats. And that will be compared against guys putting up big stats on bad teams as the ultimate comparison. Like I'm pretty sure there's not a world where three years from now Kon is averaging more points than either Ace or Tre. not gonna happen because that's never going to be his role. I'm going to accept anything less regardless of how he plays or fits in with the team or how the team plays when he's on the court.
It's not too dissimilar from the moose versus mark comments last year. Mark clearly had more talent and he put up really good numbers 15 and 10 on good percentages. But the Hornets were unquestionably, without a doubt, a better team when Moose was on the floor.
So it's possible this could be a sum of the parts situation, but looking at it in a vacuum black and white...???
I don't know if he was the right pick or the wrong pick. I have stated my preference numerous times that my number one option would have been do what it takes to trade up to 3 to get VJ and then I probably would have taken Tre, then kon. I mostly was just not interested in adding Ace to this team, as We discussed at length, pre-draft. But I'm 100 percent on board with him now and I'm going to support this dude and I hope he absolutely kills it. And I think people writing off the pick before he's played 1 second of actual NBA games is a little bit ridiculous. can we just at least give this guy some time?
He may not have been the absolute best pick in hindsight. we won't know that for several years. but, I certainly don't think this is some apocalyptic pick on the likes of other Hornets busts.

my comment that sparked this was literally "why are everyones expectations so low, why is EVERYONE seemingly not holding him to the standard of other recent 4th overall picks" i didnt even say anything myself. i just think its funny that Kon and Liam are being bucketed together as basically equivalent prospects by nearly everyone (not just me) already. i didn't even disparage him. im being told to NOT hold him to the recent bars set by Amen, Scottie, Castle at his slot while simultaneously being told to stop saying hes a crappy pick. pick a lane lol

Come on man,... you have been nonstop trashing him since predraft. This didn't start today.

honestly dont see a lot of difference between saying "this guy sucks (for a 4th overall pick)" and "this guy we'll have to bring along slowly along with Liam McNeeley off the bench of our 29th ranked offensive team while he contributes doing some little hustle and connector things and knocking down some 3s to space the floor" except that one is a lot wordier. i think we're all mostly on the same page

[JDR720]

On the wider scope of things, we were never going to take Ace. The team wasn't going to go on and on about building team culture and then take the guy who had red flags popping up left and right. Not to mention his weird (and redundant) fits with Melo and Miller and Miles.

Tre doesn't have the red flags, but the fit was poor. To me, taking Tre would've signaled that we were going to trade Melo. They have a lot of overlap on offense, Melo is a much better passer but Tre may have more raw scoring upside (or at least may be more efficient).

So we took the guy who didn't have fit issues, and didn't have intangible issues. He may not have as high a ceiling as Tre or Ace, but he does, potentially, raise the ceilings of our other players on offense by being an elite "konnector".

This, of course, assumes those other players can actually stay healthy for a reasonable amount of time.

[Chapelchilla]

Well said. Kon was not my first pick in this draft - It was draft Flagg, Harper, or VJ and then - what can we get for the 4 pick.

Looks like we have Kon and probably added Sexton, a salary dump (that we got a 1st for) and 2nd rounder for that pick. Now that Kon is here, I can see SOME parts of his game that should serve the Hornets well. He was fun to watch at Duke and helped them win a bunch of games. He can shoot j's, space the floor, pass to the right guy and dribble already. He is a worker and good dude.

Can he do even more then that in Charlotte? Probably and I hope so. He should contribute positively given time to grow up and further develop his skills and body.

Players used to get 4 years in school and couple in the pro's before the were considered a finished product. I don't pretend to know a players eventual NBA outcome til they have played for a few years, guessing at it is one thing but acting like you just KNOW how things will evolve for teenagers and getting all passive aggressive and snarky about it is pretty funny (or annoying if you aren't used to trolling).

Go Hornets.....!?!

[EmpireFalls]

Kon looks to be a useful player and a good kid so he won’t be as big of a dud as the lemon we drafted in 2024.

But yeah we treat these prospects (even, in my opinion, Miller) with kid gloves a bit too much. If you’re a top 3 or 5 pick the expectation is not just useful it’s cornerstone of the franchise and a locked in starter for a decade. Kon’s defense and athleticism will be a significant impediment to him ever becoming a positive starter level player.

It is clear that he’s a forward learning to play guard and will take time. I do have faith he can be a Bojan Bogdanovic type offensive player. But the defense and athleticism are basically capped at what it is now so this will always hold him back from providing the star level impact you’d like from a top 5 pick.

[JDR720]

Kon looks to be a useful player and a good kid so he won’t be as big of a dud as the lemon we drafted in 2024.

But yeah we treat these prospects (even, in my opinion, Miller) with kid gloves a bit too much. If you’re a top 3 or 5 pick the expectation is not just useful it’s cornerstone of the franchise and a locked in starter for a decade. Kon’s defense and athleticism will be a significant impediment to him ever becoming a positive starter level player.

It is clear that he’s a forward learning to play guard and will take time. I do have faith he can be a Bojan Bogdanovic type offensive player. But the defense and athleticism are basically capped at what it is now so this will always hold him back from providing the star level impact you’d like from a top 5 pick.

But we didn't draft him to be a star. We drafted him to be a high-end glue guy between our stars (Melo, Miller, maybe Miles). This is basically why Orlando traded all that stuff for Bane. He's meant to "unlock" the offense for Wagner and Paulo by being a spacer/playmaker.

If we made a mistake in drafting him, I think the crux of the mistake would be we assumed (or hoped) that Melo and Miller would be healthy enough to warrant a guy like Kon being the pick.

Because if they aren't, then we're in a pickle. We have the glue guy without anything to stick together.

But if they are, and Kon is averaging say, 15/5/5 on 45/40/90 while Melo is averaging 25 and Miller is average 22 then I'd say we're in pretty good shape.

[SWedd523]

at this point I just assume you are rooting for him to fail so that you can tell everyone that you were right. Is that where we are as a fan base?

I think there's a good bit of gray area between "rooting for him to fail so you can tell everyone that you were right" and "never wanted the team to draft him, think he's not that good, the wrong pick, and not acting like it's sunshine and daisies just because he's on the team"

And just to say it's kind of ironic lately that you've been calling out people that are annoyed at the negativity surrounding the offseason... It's funny because you did the exact same thing to me multiple times in 2021 2022 after those two disastrous off seasons and I was furious, rightfully so. And you snapped me one time about being too negative and ruining the board (paraphrasing). Funny how that's changed.

Okay and it's funny how you've turned around and can't seem to find fault in anything that the team does despite things clearly not going well.

Funny how that's changed


Since we're here: I'm not defending the people being negative.

I'm saying stop treating them like **** because their opinion differs.

You said:

I have no doubt that if he plays tonight and doesn't have a good game that the pitchforks will be out in full force, And then if he does have a good game it will just be whatever it's summer league he still sucks

Which is funny because the exact opposite happened after his first two games from the other side of the crowd. Oh whatever it's just nerves, it's just his first game, his ankle hurts. Then it's SEE! I TOLD YOU HE WAS GOOD! 10 rebounds!

It's hypocritical, and those of you acting like this place has no room for negativity after the past three years is intellectually dishonest at the absolute best.

To take that further. 2021 was Melo's rookie year. and was ground zero of a rebuild with one useful vet. If the team deserves grace, that seems like a fair place to me. The next year they won 43 games and went to the playoffs. They also had Melo showing up as a potential centerpiece to build around them

Fast forward a few years

27 wins, 21 wins, 19 wins and their prizes have been Miller, Tiddy, and Kon. No more hope of Melo growing into a star. He is who he is at this point. Miller with a serious wrist injury. Miles with all his shenanigans.

It is a completely different situation and has a completely different outlook. They have absolutely earned the denigration.


I don't really give a **** if you or Ben or anyone else agrees with the negativity. I just don't like you guy acting like shocked pikachu and calling people out for making 100% absolutely warranted and deserved negative statements.

How about, instead, you embrace all of the viewpoints so long as they don't violate board CoC and simply ignore the ones you don't like instead of ganging up on them?

I think that would go a long way towards evening out the discourse from both sides.

[fatlever]

i'm hardly a super positive optimist about this team. thats never been me, not until they prove me wrong. im very critical of melo, miles and the vanilla offense we run.

whats different is new ownership and front office. feels very much more like an actual functional org now and i'm willing to give them more than 12 months.

i had zero patience left for mj, mitch and cliff.

[fatlever]

that was rough...
looked anxious all game. gave me ammo vibes, nervous energy. Contrast that with Liam who incredibly comfortable and confident all night.
Was a little surprised they spent so much time with him playing decoy in the corner. Thought we'd see a few more plays run To get the ball in his hands on some secondary action. He did have several nice assists so it wasn't all terrible. I'm not worried about the shot. That will obviously come around. But there were definitely a few areas where the speed of the game just caught him completely off guard on both sides of the ball.

This certainly isn't going to do anything to quiet those were very vocal against drafting him at 4.

this was my comment n kon after game 1. seems pretty fair assessment to me, no?

[Chapelchilla]

Kon thread is all angsty, lol.

Hopefully the kid turns out ant least OK after we give him some time to develop. Will that make our fans happy?! Ay ya yay.

Almost game time....

[KembaWalker]

i'm hardly a super positive optimist about this team. thats never been me, not until they prove me wrong. im very critical of melo, miles and the vanilla offense we run.

whats different is new ownership and front office. feels very much more like an actual functional org now and i'm willing to give them more than 12 months.

i had zero patience left for mj, mitch and cliff.

in 3 years we'll be looking back at what this team is doing now and wondering how we thought that was functional. obsession with daily improvement is going to be Cifford's "DIG!!" for years of memeing

[Braggins]

I think he'll probably be pretty good, but I don't think he has a realistic chance of being a top 5 player from the class (I'm skeptical top 10 is in the cards) and was a pretty big reach. Does anyone, even the people who wanted to draft him, think he actually has a shot of being a top 5 player from this class? I don't want to speak for other people, but I don't get the sense that anyone really views him that way. I don't think it should be surprising many are unhappy to take him #4 overall.

[SWedd523]

i'm hardly a super positive optimist about this team. thats never been me, not until they prove me wrong. im very critical of melo, miles and the vanilla offense we run.

whats different is new ownership and front office. feels very much more like an actual functional org now and i'm willing to give them more than 12 months.

i had zero patience left for mj, mitch and cliff.

And the point that I keep making to that is that this isn't NBA 2K where they were just dropped into franchise mode.

This is the real world.

1. They just jettisoned their "Center of the future", the guy they made all those rosy remarks towards last year, and have replaced it with box of spare parts.

2. They preach a winning culture and daily improvement, yet continue to feature guys like Miles and Melo who are (at least publicly) definitely not those guys.

3. They're committed to "long term sustainable building" yet DO NOT have a roster at the start of a rebuild. The centerpiece of the entire roster, Melo, is not on 12mo of a rebuild timeline...and they are hurtling towards a very serious conversation with him in particular.

Which raises the question: why is the blue sam **** are they drafting "Konnectors" when they clearly don't have enough reliable high end all-nba caliber players? a team like Orlando bringing in a connector makes sense because they are currently constructed to end the build and start going for it. They have their All-NBA guys and a strong supporting cast.

We just drafted a connector to a 19 win team that has probably the lowest average talent level across the board despite being in tank mode for 4 years.

It doesn't make sense. It makes even less sense when you consider who they drafted last year. It seems like they have the same cowardly whiplash the old regime had.

[fatlever]

right or wrong - they believe melo and melo are 1a and 1b scoring options. adding another similar 1c score first wing was obviously not their preference. outside of vj, i dont think there was a good fit. a do-it-all pf would have been great. oh well...so they choose the konnector pieces.
now, we can debate - should they give melo another chance. i'm 50/50. but if you draft ace/tre/fears - you probably need to blow it up. they weren't ready to bail on melo. so they are gonna ride their 200+ mil franchise guy another season. worst case, 2026 draft is stacked. you ditch melo, go for a better 1a type and start over. this is melo's last chance, imo.

[fatlever]

did formatting just break on this thread?

[KembaWalker]

oh boy we broke the site again

[fatlever]

yb broke the thread lol

[yosemiteben]

yb broke the thread lol

2nd time I've done that

Still have no idea what I did

Just deleted my post and it fixed it

[KembaWalker]

yb broke the thread lol

2nd time I've done that

Still have no idea what I did

Just deleted my post and it fixed it

i did see what you said, i think the gist of my comment is what matters not the specific numbers, although also i dont think Scottie Barnes is some all time great rookie that is insurmountable expectations for any player, just feels less relevant going further back in the draft or using players drafted after 4 that also put up great numbers. he was a great outcome, and there should be at least a chance that Kon has such a great or even better outcome, i dont think anyone thinks thats actually possible.

[SWedd523]

right or wrong - they believe melo and melo are 1a and 1b scoring options. adding another similar 1c score first wing was obviously not their preference. outside of vj, i dont think there was a good fit. a do-it-all pf would have been great. oh well...so they choose the konnector pieces.
now, we can debate - should they give melo another chance. i'm 50/50. but if you draft ace/tre/fears - you probably need to blow it up. they weren't ready to bail on melo. so they are gonna ride their 200+ mil franchise guy another season. worst case, 2026 draft is stacked. you ditch melo, go for a better 1a type and start over. this is melo's last chance, imo.

And I fall squarely into the "wrong" camp where they have basically forced themselves into a corner where their only option is to hope Melo turns it around and becomes that star or tear it down.

Let's just use your scenario and say Melo can't stay healthy, never transcends, they hang around 20-25 wins again and decide to blow it up.

My response becomes: why the **** are you drafting connectors then?

Wouldn't it make more sense to keep swinging for star potential? Isn't that the entire point of tanking and bottoming out and the lottery? So what if you don't find a star. If they do draft a star, at worst it's another player to take pressure off Melo and potentially supplant him as the centerpiece in the event he gets traded or can't be the main guy. At worst you're doing your rebuild again anyway. No team tanks with the intention of finding a connector.


Let's take the other scenario and say Melo stays healthy and continues playing like his averages have been the last few years.

Do you think Melo/Miller/Kon is going to be a team worth building? I certainly don't. That's a 40-45 win team at best. So then my response is the same: Why the **** are you drafting connectors like your roster has its core when you're either hurtling towards the mediocrity they preach against or a scenario where they trade Melo and start yet another rebuild.

In either scenario, they've reduced their options to 1. Hope Melo stays healthy and transcends or 2. Admit defeat and trade away their centerpieces.