Felton Signs With Knicks

[fatlever]

i dont think anyone here suggested he was horrible. we watched him for 5 years (8 if you were also a carolina tarheels fan). we definitely know what he can and cant do. we are probably just a little frustrated that after taking him with the #5 pick, right behind deron and cp that he never developed on the same arc as those two did. we waited and waited for him to get better and explode and become that franchise pg we were expecting but he never did. his improvement from year to year was so minor that it was hard to notice. 5 years later he was still too similar to the player he was as a rookie. we just couldnt commit long-term, big money to keep him around to be average for us.

ray is a solid point guard. he will never be a star but he works hard, plays good defense (except against super quick guards) and he is a fantastic teammate. he will be a nice stop-gap for the knicks for 2 years until they drop major money on a better pg.

[Rich4114]

The Knicks will reap the benefits of having Felton as their PG. Felton was just a bad fit for this team's message board fans and how the franchise was run. Up until recently in his career, Charlotte played him primarily as a SG. It wasn't really until LB came in that he was allowed to play PG full time. He finally turned the corner in a tough defensive system last season and now he's taking that strong defense he's developed the past few years and is finally able to run and gun in an offense that has spacing, movement, and players who can hit shots.

Felton was never ever the problem in Charlotte. He's a very capable PG and you can win a championship with him as long as the right pieces are around him. Our best player is Gerald Wallace and he can't really shoot. The best big man he's ever worked next to is Emeka Okafor... not exactly an offensive powerhouse. Jackson made a big difference for us last year but now that Felton is gone everyone's sloppy ass ball handling and passing skills are amplified and exposed which is why we LEAD THE LEAGUE in turnovers so far this year.

[fatlever]

to be fair, we are only 2nd worst in turnovers. the bullets are worse. but then again, they play at a faster pace and actually force more turnovers than they commit.

[DY_nasty]

I like Ray (believe it or not) but to say that getting him for 7.5 mil per is a steal? lol

Knicks overpaid - no one else even gave the dude a serious offer yet. Thats how they got in that mess to begin with... Dude has never been able to run any kind of PnR, and still can't with Amare.

[thruthefire]

It's still ridiculous to suggest the Knicks overpaid when you look at what the Knicks have done and what Ray's done specifically. For New York, he's been a terrific signing. "He's the same player in a different system with different personnel" is a largely irrelevant comment because the same can be said about every player that changes teams.

As far as the reception of Knicks fans, I've seen very little negative commentary of the guy since the regular season started.

[DY_nasty]

I'm sorry, but how is it not overpaying when you give a nearly 8 mil when his best offer the previous year was 5.5 and his value dropped the next season? He didn't even get an offer from anyone else yet - thats textbook dumb business.

And the system does make a difference. I don't see how going from one of the slowest teams in the league with almost no shooters to one of the fastest, loaded with shooters, won't make a change in a point guards production.

[truth serum]

I'm sorry, but how is it not overpaying when you give a nearly 8 mil when his best offer the previous year was 5.5 and his value dropped the next season? He didn't even get an offer from anyone else yet - thats textbook dumb business.

And the system does make a difference. I don't see how going from one of the slowest teams in the league with almost no shooters to one of the fastest, loaded with shooters, won't make a change in a point guards production.

Exactly right....and so you've already proved yourself wrong. First off, for Ray to accept just a 2 year deal, we had to give him a little more money than he'd get else where. On top of that, he was the only legitimate point guard we could sign in free agency. After LeBron went to Miami, Raymond was an obvious choice as part of our "plan B". Sign Amar'e and get a bonafide big man in place, then get a point guard who can run this system for at least 2 years until we're ready to dip into the free agent market again. How is this bad business and not shrewd thinking?? Donnie did what he had to do to get his guy, and when you consider that he'll be off the books in time for Chris Paul's and Deron Williams' contract year, it's almost as if his salary doesn't matter. He is not hindering us in any way and has actually taken a huge gamble by accepting such a short deal just for the sake of our future plans. Props to Ray.

All that aside, considering what he's meant for this team so far, I don't even think 8 million a year for Ray is excessive. He's earning it. And like you said, he's in a better system with better scorers around him which was part of the thinking. Walsh and D'Antoni knew what this guy could do in the open court with the right surrounding players and so they made him an offer he couldn't refuse to get it done. With Ray (and Toney), the point guard position is one of the strongest spots on the floor for the Knicks, which is a far cry from what we've had the past 10 years. Without Ray, this team wouldn't be half as effective. Bad business?? Ehhh...not so much.

[DY_nasty]

*sigh*

Miami was going to have no cap space to really spend, no other team with money was interested in him, he was stuck with the MLE until Walsh in his infinite mercy blessed him with 2.5 mil more than he ever would've got to run pick and roll with Amare (aka plan H, and look it up - Knicks play better with Amare off the court right now) except he can't run it at all.

Both guys were good pickups for NY, and the season is still young, but Walsh overpaid for both guys significantly.

[BigSlam]

Donnie did what he had to do to get his guy, and when you consider that he'll be off the books in time for Chris Paul's and Deron Williams' contract year, it's almost as if his salary doesn't matter.

Are you serious? After the summer you just went through you are putting all your eggs in that basket again?

That's like Bobcats fans suggesting we get our hands on as many 1st round picks as possible because we are SURE the next draft will be the draft we finally get it right.

[truth serum]

Donnie did what he had to do to get his guy, and when you consider that he'll be off the books in time for Chris Paul's and Deron Williams' contract year, it's almost as if his salary doesn't matter.

Are you serious? After the summer you just went through you are putting all your eggs in that basket again?

That's like Bobcats fans suggesting we get our hands on as many 1st round picks as possible because we are SURE the next draft will be the draft we finally get it right.

No one is putting all of their eggs in any basket. But if you don't give yourself the opportunity to make it happen, then it simply won't. I'm not sure why everyone loves to jump all over the Knicks for this line of thinking. The Knicks haven't been under the cap in years and years and years. Now that they have some flexibility, they're going to keep their options open and give themselves a chance to land some of the top players in this league while still fielding a competitive team in the process. With LeBron, Wade and Bosh all in Miami, teams are going to need some serious talent to challenge them for the next 5 years. We've already given ourselves a great chance at Melo by conserving cap space, and if we don't get him, who's to say CP3 wouldn't want to come play with Amar'e in New York in a couple of years? Again, where is Donnie at fault for setting the team up this way? Especially when you consider he's added significant young talent in the process... he's doing a magnificent job and I wouldn't have it any other way. To me, this is no more of a gamble than tanking season after season and hoping you land a franchise guy in the draft. In a matter of one off season, the Knicks have gone from putrid to extremely promising just buy shedding their bad contracts, quietly picking up good, young talent and adding a superstar caliber player in Amar'e with their cap space.

I can sit here and write a book about why this was a great plan but it's not really worth the time. It seems there's a LOT of people here on RealGM who are laughing at the Knicks for having high hopes of making this work. I think some of you need to ask yourself, "do I really know more about this business than a guy like Donnie Walsh who has been one of the best, most respected execs in the NBA for over 30 years?" For the life of me, I can't figure out how people can poo poo him as just another front office failure for NY. This isn't Isiah Thomas anymore. This guy has a vision and I'm rolling with it.

[truth serum]

Are you serious? After the summer you just went through you are putting all your eggs in that basket again?

I also want to mention....people need to stop pretending this summer was such a failure for NY. Yes, LeBron went to Miami with Wade and Bosh and spurned everyone. But we still wound up with the 3rd best free agent and the best big man on the market in Amar'e. One of the best big men in the league and probably the league's most potent offensive talent in the paint...period. That is not nearly the failure of an off season that ESPN would like people to believe it was for whatever reasons they have to discredit the Knicks at every turn. Gotta take the blinders off. The NY bias is not a myth. It's a money maker.

Bottom line is, the Knicks still made some serious headway this summer. Without Amar'e and all of the cap space we cleared, we'd be overpaying Lee to come back and play no defense for the remainder of his career. Hell, if Donnie took this team in any other direction, we'd probably still have Z-Bo and Crawford or other bloated contracts for players who could never get us over the hump and still no significant draft picks. Not to mention, neither of those players are nearly the attraction Amar'e is for guys like Paul and Melo. Believe it or not, that is a real situation. Amar'e is great friends with these guys and is an elite talent that would give a guy like Melo or Paul the chance to win big if they ever teamed up. That alone is worth the money. Point and laugh all you want, but I'd rather take that gamble than to hope and pray we get a franchise player in the draft one day. In the end, a gamble is a gamble....but this one clearly has a higher success rate. It just doesn't happen very often. But if you ask the Lakers with Shaq or the Suns with Nash or even the Heat with LeBron and Bosh, I think they'd all tell you they have no regrets about putting their eggs in the free agency basket. The Knicks made the right choice.

That's like Bobcats fans suggesting we get our hands on as many 1st round picks as possible because we are SURE the next draft will be the draft we finally get it right.

Okay, so it's stupid to go after free agents and it's stupid to collect talent in the draft. So what is YOUR team's plan to win a championship??

[Rich4114]

Okay, so it's stupid to go after free agents and it's stupid to collect talent in the draft. So what is YOUR team's plan to win a championship??

um, draft players who end up being the biggest busts, pass on future stars, and make cap crippling trades for contracts like Gana Diop, Matt Carroll, and Eduardo Najara. Is there something better we should try?

[Tupik]

Okay, so it's stupid to go after free agents and it's stupid to collect talent in the draft. So what is YOUR team's plan to win a championship??

um, draft players who end up being the biggest busts, pass on future stars, and make cap crippling trades for contracts like Gana Diop, Matt Carroll, and Eduardo Najara. Is there something better we should try?

HOF

[BigSlam]

From today:

bad against the zone & felton poor decisions

2) the other is the imbalance of shooting and passing that felton is exhibiting. he is shooting too much while he does poorly at the pick and roll and with distributing the ball. where is the court vision? he is missing wide open players. where are the bounce passes in traffic? everything seems airborne. so many turnovers.

this loss is primarily on felton. the dude cannot orchestrate.

Raymond Felton probably lost us this game. I saw him make a TERRIBLE decision in the P&R; he tried to get the ball to the roll man (don't remember who it was), and had it picked off. But, even if the pass went through, the roll man was surrounded by three red jerseys and would have needed a miracle to convert.

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1064804

Felton: 7/10/8.. not a bad stat line, except he shot 2/11, just not good enough.. played hard, just not well. Has to get that pick and roll going..

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1064802

He (Amare) cant, he cant create for himself, and Felton cant get him an easy shot

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1064350&start=1155

I guess it's one of those weeks the Knicks fans don't love him?

[DY_nasty]

When you have the chance to over pay for a player without even gauging the market beforehand, you have to take it.

Good business.

[Battery]

From today:

bad against the zone & felton poor decisions

2) the other is the imbalance of shooting and passing that felton is exhibiting. he is shooting too much while he does poorly at the pick and roll and with distributing the ball. where is the court vision? he is missing wide open players. where are the bounce passes in traffic? everything seems airborne. so many turnovers.

this loss is primarily on felton. the dude cannot orchestrate.

Raymond Felton probably lost us this game. I saw him make a TERRIBLE decision in the P&R; he tried to get the ball to the roll man (don't remember who it was), and had it picked off. But, even if the pass went through, the roll man was surrounded by three red jerseys and would have needed a miracle to convert.

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1064804

Felton: 7/10/8.. not a bad stat line, except he shot 2/11, just not good enough.. played hard, just not well. Has to get that pick and roll going..

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1064802

He (Amare) cant, he cant create for himself, and Felton cant get him an easy shot

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1064350&start=1155

I guess it's one of those weeks the Knicks fans don't love him?

Raymond had 7 points 8 rebounds and 10 assists today. That stat line would earn DJ a gold hammer on this board.

Funny though how you're more concerned with mediocre games from Ray and quick to post about it but you praise DJ for worse games. Last time DJ had 10 assists in game was December 19th 2008. Most rebounds he's ever had in a game was 6.

[DY_nasty]

Raymond had 7 points 8 rebounds and 10 assists today.

But did you watch the game?

[BigSlam]

Raymond had 7 points 8 rebounds and 10 assists today.

But did you watch the game?

Superfans watch all games. In person.

That's why they are self proclaimed Superfans.

[Battery]

Raymond had 7 points 8 rebounds and 10 assists today.

But did you watch the game?

Superfans watch all games. In person.

That's why they are self proclaimed Superfans.

Thats right. If you were a Superfan then you would have known Matt Carroll was not going to be in our rotation.

Seriously dude, what were you thinking? Have you ever watched Matt Carroll play? He sucks, well not all the time, he kills it during extensive garbage time when we're already getting blown out.

[doc.end]

Thats right. If you were a Superfan then you would have known Matt Carroll was not going to be in our rotation.

Seriously dude, what were you thinking? Have you ever watched Matt Carroll play? He sucks, well not all the time, he kills it during extensive garbage time when we're already getting blown out.

Wow Battery can even watch Matt Carroll playing in games. True Superfan.