ImageImage

The Nik Stauskas Thread

Moderators: BigSlam, yosemiteben, fatlever, JDR720, Diop

User avatar
MasterIchiro
RealGM
Posts: 21,388
And1: 6,845
Joined: Jan 18, 2013
Location: The Dirty Water
       

Re: The Nik Stauskas Thread 

Post#641 » by MasterIchiro » Tue Jun 24, 2014 3:47 pm

mrknowitall215 wrote:
Biz Gilwalker wrote:
mrknowitall215 wrote:
This quote make it seem like Cho may attempt to abandon his own priority and lean towards Clifford's ideal pick
Or maybe they were actually on the same page and agreed with each other. Not out of the realm of possibility.


It's not out of the realm of possibility, but Clifford's endearing quotes over the past couple of weeks in post predraft workouts have been coming off as posturing


He definitely is posturing which leads me to believe Cho's stuck on a player Clifford doesn't want him to select. He probably uses the same language in private to, lays it out there. This is why I like Nik or this is why I'd want McDermott or this is what I'd be weary of with Gary.
It has been written...
User avatar
yosemiteben
Forum Mod - Hornets
Forum Mod - Hornets
Posts: 22,298
And1: 15,512
Joined: Mar 20, 2013
   

Re: The Nik Stauskas Thread 

Post#642 » by yosemiteben » Tue Jun 24, 2014 3:47 pm

Biz Gilwalker wrote:
mrknowitall215 wrote:
MasterIchiro wrote:


This quote make it seem like Cho may attempt to abandon his own priority and lean towards Clifford's ideal pick
Or maybe they were actually on the same page and agreed with each other. Not out of the realm of possibility.

Cho basically said, "There generally is agreement between the FO and Clifford." Interpreting that quote to mean they are not in agreement but that Cho is going to abandon his approach is a very odd interpretation.
User avatar
mrknowitall215
RealGM
Posts: 11,149
And1: 2,384
Joined: Dec 20, 2009

Re: The Nik Stauskas Thread 

Post#643 » by mrknowitall215 » Tue Jun 24, 2014 3:53 pm

There's always going to be agreement & disagreement. Even I agree & disagree with myself a quarter of the time. Cho & Clifford will say the politically correct things to the media as they should, so nobody is oddly interpretating anything, because it's just our own personal beliefs, the same way you may be interpretating that everything is copacetic between the front office & coaching staff on which player to select. We're discussing matter of opinion. Don't get bothered when others believe something that you don't
Image
User avatar
MasterIchiro
RealGM
Posts: 21,388
And1: 6,845
Joined: Jan 18, 2013
Location: The Dirty Water
       

Re: The Nik Stauskas Thread 

Post#644 » by MasterIchiro » Tue Jun 24, 2014 3:58 pm

It seems they agreed on a list of players to bring in for workouts. That's Cho's idea of being on the same 'page'. Being on the same sentence would be if they agree on a specific player. I doubt they do. Clifford's eyes don't see what the algorithm sees and vice versa. Harris' 2-way ability is throwing a kink in things imo. He has shooting potential but after seeing MKG flounder to develop any potential of having a passable/workable jumpshot/mid range game I want a guarantee of a range shooter not a potential 3-pt threat. As a win-now team we don't have time to wait for it. Stauskas, please.
It has been written...
User avatar
yosemiteben
Forum Mod - Hornets
Forum Mod - Hornets
Posts: 22,298
And1: 15,512
Joined: Mar 20, 2013
   

Re: The Nik Stauskas Thread 

Post#645 » by yosemiteben » Tue Jun 24, 2014 4:06 pm

Not at all bothered - it just seems odd that you're reading conflict into what they're saying. Cho comes out and says they are in agreement, and your take is that, based on that quote, they are not in agreement but that Cho is going to "abandon his own priority."

Maybe there is huge conflict going on behind the scenes. Maybe Clifford and Cho are literally not on speaking terms. Maybe MJ has already said he's going to run everything and Cho is just a front. Maybe Clifford actually laid down an ultimatum and MJ is letting Clifford run everything and ignoring Cho. Maybe Cho and Clifford are in agreement and the conflict is between the two of them on one side and MJ on the other.

Maybe we don't know **** about what's going on behind the scenes.
User avatar
MasterIchiro
RealGM
Posts: 21,388
And1: 6,845
Joined: Jan 18, 2013
Location: The Dirty Water
       

Re: The Nik Stauskas Thread 

Post#646 » by MasterIchiro » Tue Jun 24, 2014 4:12 pm

It's not far fetched to believe Cho and Clifford agreed on the list of players to invite to workout (same page) but disagree on the specific players (same sentence). It's also not a stretch to assume that since they disagree on a specific player that one likes a specific player enough to verbalize to the media the same case he makes in private. Again, Clifford's posturing seems to be that he's clear about wanting size and shooting and also clear that he will defer to the GM for the selection, so if we select a player who doesn't fit those criteria, we won't scapegoat Clifford. The Augustin pick. Larry Brown's fault, right? Gerald Henderson, Larry Brown's fault right? After seeing MKG (and not playing him in the 4th quarter) I don't blame Clifford for not wanting to be associated with the ultimate decision on the selection, especially if Cho is leaning Harris. Clifford knows more about basketball than Cho. Cho needs to listen to his coach. He needs to be on the same sentence but hey, ultimately Cho knows it's his ass on the line. Clifford won't take the bullet.
It has been written...
User avatar
mrknowitall215
RealGM
Posts: 11,149
And1: 2,384
Joined: Dec 20, 2009

Re: The Nik Stauskas Thread 

Post#647 » by mrknowitall215 » Tue Jun 24, 2014 4:14 pm

yosemiteben wrote:Not at all bothered - it just seems odd that you're reading conflict into what they're saying. Cho comes out and says they are in agreement, and your take is that, based on that quote, they are not in agreement but that Cho is going to "abandon his own priority."

Maybe there is huge conflict going on behind the scenes. Maybe Clifford and Cho are literally not on speaking terms. Maybe MJ has already said he's going to run everything and Cho is just a front. Maybe Clifford actually laid down an ultimatum and MJ is letting Clifford run everything and ignoring Cho. Maybe Cho and Clifford are in agreement and the conflict is between the two of them on one side and MJ on the other.

Maybe we don't know **** about what's going on behind the scenes.


Not all lines of disagreement is conflict though. 'MasterIchiro' and I disagree on a lot, but we're on the same page of wanting the team to get better and there's no ill feelings, just plain & simple disagreement

...and you're right. We don't know sh#t about what's going on behind the scenes, but that don't stop you or anybody else from predicting what the team might do and why they should do it

You're certainly 'bothered' if you feel the need to reply to anybody that doubt or questions Cho's direction. Just because I question it doesn't mean that I disagree, just unsure of the future
Image
User avatar
yosemiteben
Forum Mod - Hornets
Forum Mod - Hornets
Posts: 22,298
And1: 15,512
Joined: Mar 20, 2013
   

Re: The Nik Stauskas Thread 

Post#648 » by yosemiteben » Tue Jun 24, 2014 4:18 pm

I have no issue with you saying, "I bet Cho wants to pick Harris." Frankly I'm sure there's a part of him that wants to - he's a good prospect, as evidenced by his being workout by teams with picks higher than ours.

It's when Cho comes out and says, "The FO and Clifford are on the same page," and you interpret that to mean they are not on the same and that further Cho is going to cave to Clifford that it seems like it goes too far. I guess this is just another situation of my being confused by the oddly specific predictions that are being made.
User avatar
mrknowitall215
RealGM
Posts: 11,149
And1: 2,384
Joined: Dec 20, 2009

Re: The Nik Stauskas Thread 

Post#649 » by mrknowitall215 » Tue Jun 24, 2014 4:26 pm

yosemiteben wrote:I have no issue with you saying, "I bet Cho wants to pick Harris." Frankly I'm sure there's a part of him that wants to - he's a good prospect, as evidenced by his being workout by teams with picks higher than ours.

It's when Cho comes out and says, "The FO and Clifford are on the same page," and you interpret that to mean they are not on the same and that further Cho is going to cave to Clifford that it seems like it goes too far. I guess this is just another situation of my being confused by the oddly specific predictions that are being made.


It's all good. It's easy comprehension of the matter. I'll use quotes from the article...

Cho said he’s conscious of Clifford’s priorities and they work well together.


If Cho is conscious of Clifford's priorities, then that mean that he's listening to Clifford's ideal of whom they should select

“The front office and coaching staff have to be on the same page. I don’t think they necessary have to be on the same sentence, but they have to be on the same page,” Cho said. “And I think we’re on the same page as far as team needs.”


If Cho say that they don't necessarily have to be on the same sentence, but on the same page, then that's obvious suspicion to read into that they may very well differ somewhere, as in they believe that the team need a wing that can shoot, but they might disagree on which wing would be a better fit for the team

:dontknow:

It's not rocket science or illogical thinking to read between the lines...and like I stated, not all disagreement is conflict
Image
User avatar
MasterIchiro
RealGM
Posts: 21,388
And1: 6,845
Joined: Jan 18, 2013
Location: The Dirty Water
       

Re: The Nik Stauskas Thread 

Post#650 » by MasterIchiro » Tue Jun 24, 2014 4:30 pm

Yeah I don't see the oddity of inference.
It has been written...
vorbis
Veteran
Posts: 2,889
And1: 788
Joined: Jun 26, 2008

Re: The Nik Stauskas Thread 

Post#651 » by vorbis » Tue Jun 24, 2014 5:09 pm

at the same time, Clifford has said multiple times that it's important for the coach to be careful in advocating for draft prospects, because they don't watch them all year like scouts do. seemed a very "stay in your lane" kind of statement from him to my ears.
Vanderbilt_Grad
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,025
And1: 1,781
Joined: Sep 22, 2001
Location: Charlotte, NC

Re: The Nik Stauskas Thread 

Post#652 » by Vanderbilt_Grad » Tue Jun 24, 2014 5:14 pm

vorbis wrote:at the same time, Clifford has said multiple times that it's important for the coach to be careful in advocating for draft prospects, because they don't watch them all year like scouts do. seemed a very "stay in your lane" kind of statement from him to my ears.


MJ just let one of his friends of many years walk over defining what Cho's role is to be. If you worked for the Hornets right now would you be throwing yourself in Cho's swim lanes?

On Nik, I have no idea if he's going to be the pick or not, but I'm really expecting one or more of the picks to be traded. Based on the workouts I'm really expecting 9 to be traded for one of the mid-round picks. I hope they draft Nik, but honestly I'll be surprised.

I also think that trades vs draft is more where any Cho vs Cliff disagreements are. Cliff is all about winning now. Cho wants a sustainable foundation that will win for the long run. Both are about winning, but that's the pressures of GMing vs coaching.
My picks:
2020 Draft (3rd pick) - Tyrese Haliburton, Devin Vassell, or Onyeka Okongwu
2021 Draft (11th pick) - Moses Moody
User avatar
MasterIchiro
RealGM
Posts: 21,388
And1: 6,845
Joined: Jan 18, 2013
Location: The Dirty Water
       

Re: The Nik Stauskas Thread 

Post#653 » by MasterIchiro » Tue Jun 24, 2014 5:14 pm

vorbis wrote:at the same time, Clifford has said multiple times that it's important for the coach to be careful in advocating for draft prospects, because they don't watch them all year like scouts do. seemed a very "stay in your lane" kind of statement from him to my ears.


Right he's telling us "I'm not one to tell Cho how to do his job." But really, Cho's job is to collect data from as many sources as possible and Clifford's definitely one of his sources otherwise Clifford wouldn't be watching "lots of tape" on some of these prospects, something he admitted after the Stauskas workout. Why bombard him with this footage if he's not an active participant in the drafting process? Ultimately it's Cho's selection, that's all Clifford is saying. He's going to give his input, not choose a specific player, but give pos and neg feedback on all candidates. It seems Clifford can keep the tone positive though.
It has been written...
User avatar
MasterIchiro
RealGM
Posts: 21,388
And1: 6,845
Joined: Jan 18, 2013
Location: The Dirty Water
       

Re: The Nik Stauskas Thread 

Post#654 » by MasterIchiro » Tue Jun 24, 2014 5:20 pm

Vanderbilt_Grad wrote:
vorbis wrote:at the same time, Clifford has said multiple times that it's important for the coach to be careful in advocating for draft prospects, because they don't watch them all year like scouts do. seemed a very "stay in your lane" kind of statement from him to my ears.


MJ just let one of his friends of many years walk over defining what Cho's role is to be. If you worked for the Hornets right now would you be throwing yourself in Cho's swim lanes?

On Nik, I have no idea if he's going to be the pick or not, but I'm really expecting one or more of the picks to be traded. Based on the workouts I'm really expecting 9 to be traded for one of the mid-round picks. I hope they draft Nik, but honestly I'll be surprised.

I also think that trades vs draft is more where any Cho vs Cliff disagreements are. Cliff is all about winning now. Cho wants a sustainable foundation that will win for the long run. Both are about winning, but that's the pressures of GMing vs coaching.


I've thought the same. Too many guys who worked out fit the mid-first much better than 9 or 24. Warren is an example. A reach at 9, never falls to 24. PJ Hairston is another. LaVine is another. Payton is another imo.

Stauskas + McDermott could be their top picks if a trade down doesn't work in our favor and there's obviously no guarantee we'd get a fair deal.

The Suns seem control 2 slots that seem like a good fit. You'd be able to get 2 of Hairston, Warren, LaVine, Payton at 14 +18 imo. You could probably get Warren at 14 and Hairston at 18. Then you have to consider is McDermott so much better than Warren that you would pass up Hairston and is Stauskas so much better than Hairston that you would miss out on Warren?
It has been written...
User avatar
MasterIchiro
RealGM
Posts: 21,388
And1: 6,845
Joined: Jan 18, 2013
Location: The Dirty Water
       

Re: The Nik Stauskas Thread 

Post#655 » by MasterIchiro » Tue Jun 24, 2014 5:26 pm

I mean we can walk out of this draft with Stauskas + KJ McDaniels or McDermott + Jordan Adams or we could walk out with Warren + Hairston + 24, at which point pick 24 becomes house money. Package a roster player with it for a good offer or keep it if you really like a player at 24, like Shabazz.

TJ Warren
PJ Hairston
Shabazz Napier

Then sign your difference maker, Lance Stephenson.
It has been written...
User avatar
mrknowitall215
RealGM
Posts: 11,149
And1: 2,384
Joined: Dec 20, 2009

Re: The Nik Stauskas Thread 

Post#656 » by mrknowitall215 » Tue Jun 24, 2014 5:56 pm

With that said, I hope they trade down :lol:

...not in a bad way, but it'll guarantee that they won't draft Stauskas or McDermott who are both likely to go in the top-10, all the while opening up the possibility of selecting my personal favorites in the late lottery-to-mid 1st round range. This also opens up the possibility of Harris though, so I don't know. I just want it my way, but I know it's far from likely
Image
freakon0mics
Analyst
Posts: 3,320
And1: 73
Joined: Oct 21, 2005
Location: Charlotte, NC
     

Re: The Nik Stauskas Thread 

Post#657 » by freakon0mics » Tue Jun 24, 2014 6:28 pm

MasterIchiro wrote:I mean we can walk out of this draft with Stauskas + KJ McDaniels or McDermott + Jordan Adams or we could walk out with Warren + Hairston + 24, at which point pick 24 becomes house money. Package a roster player with it for a good offer or keep it if you really like a player at 24, like Shabazz.

TJ Warren
PJ Hairston
Shabazz Napier

Then sign your difference maker, Lance Stephenson.


That would be a good scenario but I think PHX will ask for 24 with 9 just to get both 14 and 18, and maybe a future second rounder.
"I can accept failure, but I can't accept not trying." - Michael Jordan
User avatar
MasterIchiro
RealGM
Posts: 21,388
And1: 6,845
Joined: Jan 18, 2013
Location: The Dirty Water
       

Re: The Nik Stauskas Thread 

Post#658 » by MasterIchiro » Tue Jun 24, 2014 6:39 pm

freakon0mics wrote:
MasterIchiro wrote:I mean we can walk out of this draft with Stauskas + KJ McDaniels or McDermott + Jordan Adams or we could walk out with Warren + Hairston + 24, at which point pick 24 becomes house money. Package a roster player with it for a good offer or keep it if you really like a player at 24, like Shabazz.

TJ Warren
PJ Hairston
Shabazz Napier

Then sign your difference maker, Lance Stephenson.


That would be a good scenario but I think PHX will ask for 24 with 9 just to get both 14 and 18, and maybe a future second rounder.


24 + 9 = 33
14 + 18 = 32

Quantities are approximately even but the 9 selection offers the higher upside player. The Suns would have to pay a premium to me for quality for that 9 selection. I would include pick 45 as my final sweetener. And I would still package Neal + 24 to move up to 21.

I'd walk out with TJ Warren + PJ Hairston + Shabazz or Kyle Anderson.

Then I'd sign my difference maker, Lance, Bosh or Lebron. I think Lance is the most realistic. I might take on Ilysova for Henderson

PG-Kemba Walker/Shabazz Napier
SG-Lance Stephenson/PJ Hairston
SF-Michael Kidd-Gilchrist/TJ Warren
PF-Ersan Ilysova/Cody Zeller
C-Al Jefferson/Bismack Biyombo
It has been written...
User avatar
mrknowitall215
RealGM
Posts: 11,149
And1: 2,384
Joined: Dec 20, 2009

Re: The Nik Stauskas Thread 

Post#659 » by mrknowitall215 » Tue Jun 24, 2014 8:27 pm

MKGsMotor wrote:I know many on here love Nik Stauskus. But I want to be the voice of the other side. I don't like him. I don't like him at all, and I especially don't like him at 9.

Nik isn't quick enough to get by NBA defenders. He isn't strong enough to hold his own. He isn't fast enough to excel on the break. He isn't enough of an athlete to score in the paint. And even though he's improved- his ball handling is NOT good enough to create for himself. He will get eaten alive by most NBA defenders. Nik's defense is appalling. He will instantly become the biggest defensive liability on the team. Wing players with pitiful defense are usually not starters- they are best off the bench - for their whole careers. That is, if they can score and score well.

Nik is a good shooter. He will have to prove himself to become recognized as a "great" shooter. This will be his role. It's a role that isn't worth a top ten, lottery, or probably even first round pick. Nik is a good passer. However, he will not be a playmaking passer in the NBA, because his ball handling and quickness is simply not good enough to get past NBA defenders.

Nik was not a top 100 recruit out of high school. Nik was not a highly talked-about Freshman in college. Nik had a good sophomore season in college. I'm not saying Nik Stauskus sucks at basketball. Relatively, Nik is better than 95% of people in the world at playing basketball. However, to make it in the NBA you have to be great. Nik's shooting may find him a role in the league. But I even doubt that.

Quote me, screenshot me, do whatever. Nik Stauskus will be one of our famous busts if we draft him at pick 9.


Officially 'And1'd. You make valid points even if I'm probably less certain about Stauskas' bust potential than you
Image
User avatar
mrknowitall215
RealGM
Posts: 11,149
And1: 2,384
Joined: Dec 20, 2009

Re: The Nik Stauskas Thread 

Post#660 » by mrknowitall215 » Tue Jun 24, 2014 8:57 pm

Nik Stauskas, SG, Michigan

The best shooter in the draft, Stauskas can hit from deep, put the ball on the deck and pull up and get to the basket and finish. He proved to be far more than a standstill shooter playing off of Trey Burke, and he has a confidence bordering on cockiness that I love. - Jay Bilas
Image

Return to Charlotte Hornets