The Marvin Gaye Williams Thread

catch20two · Post #641 » by **catch20two** » Wed Oct 15, 2014 11:02 pm

Messy Marv ain't no Mcbob. I can't wait to see what Vonleh can do. Vonleh might stink it up because he's not ready but what if he surprises us and start putting up numbers. That's where my optimism lies.

Bassman · Post #642 » by **Bassman** » Thu Oct 16, 2014 2:42 am

catch20two wrote:Messy Marv ain't no Mcbob. I can't wait to see what Vonleh can do. Vonleh might stink it up because he's not ready but what if he surprises us and start putting up numbers. That's where my optimism lies.

I love Noah and wanted us to draft him above all other possible prospects, but it's going to take a year or two before we see his best work. Still, I believe players should earn their minutes, and Vonleh could take some of Marv's this season.

Liver_Pooty · Post #643 » by **Liver_Pooty** » Thu Oct 16, 2014 3:00 am

If people are going to bash Williams for having a poor preseason they may as well bash Stephenson as well.

They will both be fine.

catch20two · Post #644 » by **catch20two** » Thu Oct 16, 2014 3:09 am

Liver_Pooty wrote:If people are going to bash Williams for having a poor preseason they may as well bash Stephenson as well.

They will both be fine.

Stephenson has played better tho...and they make about the same amount of money. Lol

Seriously tho, Stephenson has me concerned as well. Stephenson need to stop tryna do too much and fallback and understand that this is the Big Al and Kemba show. Stephenson is probably more of a complimentary guy with flare than he is a star player. I just want him to let the game come to him. That's why he's been struggling, because he's been trying to do too much.

Messy Marv tho. I'm sure he'll get it together and won't be shooting 25% on the season but that don't change the fact that he'll be a nonfactor that's mostly negative like he's always been on every team he's played for.

Liver_Pooty · Post #645 » by **Liver_Pooty** » Thu Oct 16, 2014 3:24 am

catch20two wrote:
Liver_Pooty wrote:If people are going to bash Williams for having a poor preseason they may as well bash Stephenson as well.

They will both be fine.

Stephenson has played better tho...and they make about the same amount of money. Lol

Seriously tho, Stephenson has me concerned as well. Stephenson need to stop tryna do too much and fallback and understand that this is the Big Al and Kemba show. Stephenson is probably more of a complimentary guy with flare than he is a star player. I just want him to let the game come to him. That's why he's been struggling, because he's been trying to do too much.

Messy Marv tho. I'm sure he'll get it together and won't be shooting 25% on the season but that don't change the fact that he'll be a nonfactor that's mostly negative like he's always been on every team he's played for.

To be fair Stephenson is our second most talented player. Clifford tried to temper fans expectations of him at least for a while in todays post game press conference. I think its going to take him at least a month to get acclimated on what we are trying to do here. The only thing that concerns me about Stephenson has been his long range shooting thus far. He has air balled at least 4 threes badly so far in 4 games. We all wanted a SG who could be consistent from long range, and some of the shots he puts up miss by a good half a foot; its been terrible. He is the perfect fit next to Al though with his rebounding and passing ability so Im not worried about him at all.

Marvin on the other hand.. Im just going to give him the benefit of the doubt since I like to give all of our players a chance. It is rather worrisome that Zeller has looked better shooting mid range to 20 footers than Marvin so far. Detroit double teamed the hell out of Jefferson today and he only got 7 shots up. Thats where Marvin and even Stephenson should come into play hitting 3's off of those doubles. I think Henderson coming back will help this team immensely. He gets a ton of hate on here but hes still a damn solid player and leader on the floor.

catch20two · Post #646 » by **catch20two** » Thu Oct 16, 2014 4:41 am

Liver_Pooty wrote:
catch20two wrote:
Liver_Pooty wrote:If people are going to bash Williams for having a poor preseason they may as well bash Stephenson as well.

They will both be fine.

Stephenson has played better tho...and they make about the same amount of money. Lol

Seriously tho, Stephenson has me concerned as well. Stephenson need to stop tryna do too much and fallback and understand that this is the Big Al and Kemba show. Stephenson is probably more of a complimentary guy with flare than he is a star player. I just want him to let the game come to him. That's why he's been struggling, because he's been trying to do too much.

Messy Marv tho. I'm sure he'll get it together and won't be shooting 25% on the season but that don't change the fact that he'll be a nonfactor that's mostly negative like he's always been on every team he's played for.

To be fair Stephenson is our second most talented player. Clifford tried to temper fans expectations of him at least for a while in todays post game press conference. I think its going to take him at least a month to get acclimated on what we are trying to do here. The only thing that concerns me about Stephenson has been his long range shooting thus far. He has air balled at least 4 threes badly so far in 4 games. We all wanted a SG who could be consistent from long range, and some of the shots he puts up miss by a good half a foot; its been terrible. He is the perfect fit next to Al though with his rebounding and passing ability so Im not worried about him at all.

Marvin on the other hand.. Im just going to give him the benefit of the doubt since I like to give all of our players a chance. It is rather worrisome that Zeller has looked better shooting mid range to 20 footers than Marvin so far. Detroit double teamed the hell out of Jefferson today and he only got 7 shots up. Thats where Marvin and even Stephenson should come into play hitting 3's off of those doubles. I think Henderson coming back will help this team immensely. He gets a ton of hate on here but hes still a damn solid player and leader on the floor.

I tried to temper yall expectations on Lance way before Cliffy Cliff even said a word about it, even before we signed him. I'm very happy about the signing tho.

Marvin is just Marvin. For the betterment of the team I hope he keep up this poor play so Cliff won't have a choice but to start Zeller and move Messy Marv to backup SF duties.

Snidely FC · Post #647 » by **Snidely FC** » Thu Oct 16, 2014 1:45 pm

While the focus has been on Marvin's faulty shooting, I'm concerned about the team's defense, especially its interior defense. Last season's defense was a help defense. Again, everyone talks about McBob's involvement in the offense, but few talk about his integral involvement in the defense. He was the team's defacto defensive captain. If you went to live games you saw him pointing and yelling to people - especially young players - on where to be and what to do on the defensive end. The defense lost its captain. I'm worried. Hopefully, what we've seen in the preseason has been lack of effort, not lack of ability, because this team is going to need to win games on its defense this year not its offense.

Post #648 » by **yosemiteben** » Thu Oct 16, 2014 2:18 pm

Snidely FC wrote:The defense lost its captain.

Yeah...you and I remember McRoberts' role on this team differently.

mrknowitall215 · Post #649 » by **mrknowitall215** » Thu Oct 16, 2014 2:43 pm

Snidely FC wrote:While the focus has been on Marvin's faulty shooting, I'm concerned about the team's defense, especially its interior defense. Last season's defense was a help defense. Again, everyone talks about McBob's involvement in the offense, but few talk about his integral involvement in the defense. He was the team's defacto defensive captain. If you went to live games you saw him pointing and yelling to people - especially young players - on where to be and what to do on the defensive end. The defense lost its captain. I'm worried. Hopefully, what we've seen in the preseason has been lack of effort, not lack of ability, because this team is going to need to win games on its defense this year not its offense.

I agree, Josh McRoberts was a focal part of the defense because he held everyone accountable. I remember reading on a few occasions where Al Jefferson said that McRoberts was a huge help for him defensively via communication

As far as Marvin Williams, I'll try to be patient until around December because if he can somehow prove to be a sniper from beyond the arc then it could be somewhat worth the while & overture contract

Radu_Hornets · Post #650 » by **Radu_Hornets** » Thu Oct 16, 2014 2:44 pm

The more we approach the beginning of the season the more I regret Mcbob...

mrknowitall215 · Post #651 » by **mrknowitall215** » Thu Oct 16, 2014 3:14 pm

Even if we had re-signed McRoberts, he wouldn't have been ready for the start of the season due to his lingering recovery from toe surgery, the same toe that held him out of most of the preseason last year

I could honestly see McRoberts tenure in Miami souring by the trade deadline and it could be possible for us to trade for his return. I doubt that the Heat offense would allow McRoberts as many touches as Clifford's offense did, and that'll effect McRoberts' already middling production

HornetJail · Post #652 » by **HornetJail** » Thu Oct 16, 2014 3:41 pm

mrknowitall215 wrote:Even if we had re-signed McRoberts, he wouldn't have been ready for the start of the season due to his lingering recovery from toe surgery, the same toe that held him out of most of the preseason last year

I could honestly see McRoberts tenure in Miami souring by the trade deadline and it could be possible for us to trade for his return. I doubt that the Heat offense would allow McRoberts as many touches as Clifford's offense did, and that'll effect McRoberts' already middling production

I have thought the same thing, but they do need someone else to handle the ball. Chalmers and Cole are garbage point guards without Lebron, Wade isn't reliable due to his health and he doesn't even have a backup. Luol Deng isn't a ball-handler. That leaves... McBob. It makes sense that he'll get plenty of touches, but we'll see how he meshes with the Heat, but I am 100% advocating trading back for him, even if that means giving up Hairston or a pick or something.

mrknowitall215 · Post #653 » by **mrknowitall215** » Thu Oct 16, 2014 4:00 pm

BizGilwalker wrote:
mrknowitall215 wrote:Even if we had re-signed McRoberts, he wouldn't have been ready for the start of the season due to his lingering recovery from toe surgery, the same toe that held him out of most of the preseason last year

I could honestly see McRoberts tenure in Miami souring by the trade deadline and it could be possible for us to trade for his return. I doubt that the Heat offense would allow McRoberts as many touches as Clifford's offense did, and that'll effect McRoberts' already middling production

...but I am 100% advocating trading back for him, even if that means giving up Hairston or a pick or something.

I was thinking more along the lines of Henderson (with a 2nd rounder included if necessary) for McRoberts instead of Hairston, and bringing back one of Cole or Chalmers to be our backup PG

James Gatz · Post #654 » by **James Gatz** » Thu Oct 16, 2014 4:05 pm

yosemiteben wrote:
Snidely FC wrote:The defense lost its captain.

Yeah...you and I remember McRoberts' role on this team differently.

Clifford is the one who called McRoberts the captain of our defense.

mrknowitall215 · Post #655 » by **mrknowitall215** » Thu Oct 16, 2014 4:23 pm

Josh McRoberts doesn't get a ton of attention, but coaches and teammates seem to really appreciate him. What is it about him?

Jefferson: He's a very underrated player, number one. He's just a smart guy when it comes to the game. He's got a high IQ of the game. He just knows all the right things to do. And believe it or not, he's our captain on that defense because no matter where you're at or no matter where Josh is at, you're going to hear his voice on the defensive end telling you what to do, where to be. It's just great, he helped me out a lot. Especially on the defensive end, he just really helped me out. And he's really, believe it or not, kind of like a point guard on the offensive end. He makes all the right decisions with the ball, he puts a lot of us in the right situation as far as scoring the ball. He's a great guy to have, great guy. I'm not going to say I wasn't a fan of his game, I just didn't know him before I got here because he's always been on the Eastern side and I've been on the West side or vice versa, so I never knew him as far as a player. But this little time I have spent with him, it's amazing how gifted he is.

http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2013/12/19/ ... ature-2013

LamarMatic7 · Post #656 » by **LamarMatic7** » Thu Oct 16, 2014 4:25 pm

Snidely FC wrote:While the focus has been on Marvin's faulty shooting, I'm concerned about the team's defense, especially its interior defense. Last season's defense was a help defense. Again, everyone talks about McBob's involvement in the offense, but few talk about his integral involvement in the defense. He was the team's defacto defensive captain. If you went to live games you saw him pointing and yelling to people - especially young players - on where to be and what to do on the defensive end. The defense lost its captain. I'm worried. Hopefully, what we've seen in the preseason has been lack of effort, not lack of ability, because this team is going to need to win games on its defense this year not its offense.

ugh... when I brought this up last season, during times when it was more popular to downplay McBob's impact, people dismissed the idea of him being important for our defense.

mrknowitall215 · Post #657 » by **mrknowitall215** » Thu Oct 16, 2014 4:29 pm

LamarMatic7 wrote:
Snidely FC wrote:While the focus has been on Marvin's faulty shooting, I'm concerned about the team's defense, especially its interior defense. Last season's defense was a help defense. Again, everyone talks about McBob's involvement in the offense, but few talk about his integral involvement in the defense. He was the team's defacto defensive captain. If you went to live games you saw him pointing and yelling to people - especially young players - on where to be and what to do on the defensive end. The defense lost its captain. I'm worried. Hopefully, what we've seen in the preseason has been lack of effort, not lack of ability, because this team is going to need to win games on its defense this year not its offense.

ugh... when I brought this up last season, during times when it was more popular to downplay McBob's impact, people dismissed the idea of him being important for our defense.

I believe I was one of them. My argument against McRoberts as a defender was that he wasn't much of a rim protector, and I preferred to see a shot blocking PF alongside Jefferson, but I always gave McRoberts credit as a solid positional defender on rotations. Likewise, I think Zeller is a solid positional defender in the same vein

Post #658 » by **yosemiteben** » Thu Oct 16, 2014 4:32 pm

mrknowitall215 wrote:
Josh McRoberts doesn't get a ton of attention, but coaches and teammates seem to really appreciate him. What is it about him?

Jefferson: He's a very underrated player, number one. He's just a smart guy when it comes to the game. He's got a high IQ of the game. He just knows all the right things to do. And believe it or not, he's our captain on that defense because no matter where you're at or no matter where Josh is at, you're going to hear his voice on the defensive end telling you what to do, where to be. It's just great, he helped me out a lot. Especially on the defensive end, he just really helped me out. And he's really, believe it or not, kind of like a point guard on the offensive end. He makes all the right decisions with the ball, he puts a lot of us in the right situation as far as scoring the ball. He's a great guy to have, great guy. I'm not going to say I wasn't a fan of his game, I just didn't know him before I got here because he's always been on the Eastern side and I've been on the West side or vice versa, so I never knew him as far as a player. But this little time I have spent with him, it's amazing how gifted he is.

http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2013/12/19/ ... ature-2013

Wow, touche. Interesting.

chabber · Post #659 » by **chabber** » Thu Oct 16, 2014 6:39 pm

Snidely FC wrote:While the focus has been on Marvin's faulty shooting, I'm concerned about the team's defense, especially its interior defense. Last season's defense was a help defense. Again, everyone talks about McBob's involvement in the offense, but few talk about his integral involvement in the defense. He was the team's defacto defensive captain. If you went to live games you saw him pointing and yelling to people - especially young players - on where to be and what to do on the defensive end. The defense lost its captain. I'm worried. Hopefully, what we've seen in the preseason has been lack of effort, not lack of ability, because this team is going to need to win games on its defense this year not its offense.

I'll back you on this as well. He had a good head for the game defensively and was the most vocal during game action. It's one of the reasons coach ran him with the bench players in the 2nd quarter although that admittedly had to do with offense as well. Josh is smart defensively and I think he'll fit in to Miami's trapping scheme pretty well alongside Bosh and Anderson.

One of my favorite defensive plays he made last season was in the final game vs. Chicago. Near the end of the 4th on an inbound DJ hit a 3 off a double screen set right at the corner arc. I think it tied the game. Kemba couldn't fight through and Josh didn't catch it in time. They ran the play later on in OT and Josh sniffed it out and got a hand up in the little midgets face and tipped the shot if I'm not mistaken. Helped us close them out and get the much needed win.

LamarMatic7 · Post #660 » by **LamarMatic7** » Thu Oct 16, 2014 6:55 pm

chabber wrote:One of my favorite defensive plays he made last season was in the final game vs. Chicago. Near the end of the 4th on an inbound DJ hit a 3 off a double screen set right at the corner arc. I think it tied the game. Kemba couldn't fight through and Josh didn't catch it in time. They ran the play later on in OT and Josh sniffed it out and got a hand up in the little midgets face and tipped the shot if I'm not mistaken. Helped us close them out and get the much needed win.

Check out the big brains on Chabber!

I took a look at that game and you're right. Great memory, bro. DJ made a three on a tricky out-of-bounds play with 5 minutes to go, making the lead 5 points for Chicago. Then in the OT, Thibbs attempts the same play when down 5 points and a minute left. McBob instantly senses it, completely leaves Gibson and blocks DJ from the side.