Signed By Indiana - The Jeremy Lamb Thread

[BatumtheGlue]

Defensive awareness is a natural gift. It's not that easy to fix it with practice or bulking up. We have to achieve Lamb as what he is... A streaky shooter with no defense.

[gafun]

Defensive awareness is a natural gift. It's not that easy to fix it with practice or bulking up. We have to achieve Lamb as what he is... A streaky shooter with no defense.

SG with no defense wouldn't go far unless he is avg 25pts guy.


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[TinmanZBoy]

Lamb is a smaller Kevin Durant body type...

[Kswiss]

This is when people ask if you watch games.

PJ takes shots from the opposing team's best wing player usually. Is he gonna shut down Wade? Melo? No. He's gonna make them work though before he gets figured out.

Meanwhile Lamb gets beaten off the dribble by Courtney Lee...

You have to factor in the frequency of different type of defensive possessions that each player/team faces... 50+% of Hornets' defensive positions are close-outs on spot-up shooters, Lamb is 90+ percentile in defending those situations, what's PJ's percentile.... PJ might body up on some elite wings a few times which gave the false impression, and that's the only area he did well (90+), but that only account for 9.2% of his defensive possessions... For example, PJ was subbed out after he played 5 minutes in the first quarter against the Celtics lately, it is not because he chucked three 3 pointers, it was because he missed almost every rotation, did not box out the celtics rebounder to let Celtics have a easy second chance...

Dude what?

Cliff's been on record saying that guarding the opposing team's best wing is literally PJ's first and primary role on the team.

If you have to squint at Lamb's numbers to find ways that he could possibly be a decent defender, then you're ignoring the obvious on-court product. He's terrible defending anyone off-ball, plain bad at on-ball defense, and he's bipolar about when and how he jumps passing lanes.

Boston's offense is one of the most unique in the league too. Kinda odd bringing them up as the point of comparison.

Completely agree with you DY. Tinman you can't be serious saying Lamb is anywhere near PJ defensively. He's by far the worst defender on this team and one the worst in the league that I've seen. He has no strength, quickness or tenacity to stay with his man, and he's not even being asked to guard major offensive threats. Austin Rivers looks like prime Dwayne Wade against him

[phillycheese]

Defensive awareness is a natural gift. It's not that easy to fix it with practice or bulking up. We have to achieve Lamb as what he is... A streaky shooter with no defense.

Defense can be learnt as long as you have the physical tools. It's not like Lamb is 5'6" guarding 6'6" SGs.

[BatumtheGlue]

Defensive awareness is a natural gift. It's not that easy to fix it with practice or bulking up. We have to achieve Lamb as what he is... A streaky shooter with no defense.

Defense can be learnt as long asyou have the physical tools. It's not like Lamb is 5'6" guarding 6'6" SGs.

You are right, he has all the physical tools to be a good defender. But what i saw from Lamb, it's not about the physical tools, it's more about awareness.

[2k15]

he looked really down in his post-game interview, probably got chewed out by cliff. $7million contract, time to play to it.

[bigbob]

his footwork is awful, dude looks like a duck when driving to the rim. He needs some heavy work on that end, hopefully cliff can fix that part of his game. Id rather not see him traded away, he has potential, just doesn't show intensity on the defensive end.

[hood30]

Is it time for Clifford to seriously think about ending the PJ Hairston experiment as a starter?

I know PJ has reasonably improved his shooting during the last 5 game, but his FG% is still at 35%...Should we expect him to keep improving so that he can get a reasonable FG% of about 40%?

I strongly believe Clifford needs to shake things up once more because the East is very tight and he HAS to make the playoff this year...You can't have a guy shooting well below 40%FG in your starting 5 for so long.....PJ sound like a decent dude, but I believe he got his chance to put up reasonable stats and it is now time for new starting 5...

I also don't believe PJ is good enough defensively to remain the starter..He's a net negative overall, even if you think he's better than Lamb defensively.

My recommendation for Clifford is to either start Lin or Lamb and to re-move PJ out of the rotation completely just so that Lin and Lamb can get close to 30 minute each....Lamb is shooting 47% from the floor and I truly believe he deserve more than his current minute allocation...

Then you have the fact that you just paid him $7M per..Might as well play him and hope he improves his D...He has a much higher ceiling than PJ, so that shouldn't be up to debate...Overall, even if you think he's not good defensively, he'd STILL be a net positive over PJ because he's so much a better offensive threat.

Clifford should have minutes allocation of Kemba at 32mpg...Lin at about 28 and Lamb at about the same...Lin would get some extra minutes playing PG since Kemba large minutes would have to go down...That should leave enough minutes for Lamb at the 2.

Why not have a 5 game experiment with Kemba, Lin and Lamb as a 3 guard rotations and see what happens...You can scatter Lin's minutes so that he can lead the second units...Let Lin starts the first 6 minutes, then sub him out at about the 6th minute mark of the first quarter to rest...then bring him back to lead the second unit...Sound reasonable to me.

Clifford can not afford to wait and I just hope he end the PJ experiment as soon as possible and get Lamb in there for more minutes..Let Lin and Lamb eat up PJ's 18 minutes..That's 9 precious minutes for Lin and Lamb.

[fatlever]

Lamb doesnt deserve 30 minutes the way he has been playing.

[Kswiss]

Is it time for Clifford to seriously think about ending the PJ Hairston experiment as a starter?

I know PJ has reasonably improved his shooting during the last 5 game, but his FG% is still at 35%...Should we expect him to keep improving so that he can get a reasonable FG% of about 40%?

I strongly believe Clifford needs to shake things up once more because the East is very tight and he HAS to make the playoff this year...You can't have a guy shooting well below 40%FG in your starting 5 for so long.....PJ sound like a decent dude, but I believe he got his chance to put up reasonable stats and it is now time for new starting 5...

I also don't believe PJ is good enough defensively to remain the starter..He's a net negative overall, even if you think he's better than Lamb defensively.

My recommendation for Clifford is to either start Lin or Lamb and to re-move PJ out of the rotation completely just so that Lin and Lamb can get close to 30 minute each....Lamb is shooting 47% from the floor and I truly believe he deserve more than his current minute allocation...

Then you have the fact that you just paid him $7M per..Might as well play him and hope he improves his D...He has a much higher ceiling than PJ, so that shouldn't be up to debate...Overall, even if you think he's not good defensively, he'd STILL be a net positive over PJ because he's so much a better offensive threat.

Clifford should have minutes allocation of Kemba at 32mpg...Lin at about 28 and Lamb at about the same...Lin would get some extra minutes playing PG since Kemba large minutes would have to go down...That should leave enough minutes for Lamb at the 2.

Why not have a 5 game experiment with Kemba, Lin and Lamb as a 3 guard rotations and see what happens...You can scatter Lin's minutes so that he can lead the second units...Let Lin starts the first 6 minutes, then sub him out at about the 6th minute mark of the first quarter to rest...then bring him back to lead the second unit...Sound reasonable to me.

Clifford can not afford to wait and I just hope he end the PJ experiment as soon as possible and get Lamb in there for more minutes..Let Lin and Lamb eat up PJ's 18 minutes..That's 9 precious minutes for Lin and Lamb.

Lamb kills us while he's out there man, literally he gets dominated by other semi-legit NBA players and he can't even shoot 3's at a high enough clip to stretch the floor. Never mind that he can't create his own shot and can't pass to save his life. Also strength and quickness are physical tools like length and he definitely doesn't have those on defense so yes he is hindered physically, not just mentally. Sorry if I'm ranting he just checks all my pet peeves in a player.

[yosemiteben]

Is it time for Clifford to seriously think about ending the PJ Hairston experiment as a starter?

If anything the opposite is the case and PJ is entrenching himself in the starting lineup. Have you watched games recently?

[bws94]

Is it time for Clifford to seriously think about ending the PJ Hairston experiment as a starter?

I know PJ has reasonably improved his shooting during the last 5 game, but his FG% is still at 35%...Should we expect him to keep improving so that he can get a reasonable FG% of about 40%?

I strongly believe Clifford needs to shake things up once more because the East is very tight and he HAS to make the playoff this year...You can't have a guy shooting well below 40%FG in your starting 5 for so long.....PJ sound like a decent dude, but I believe he got his chance to put up reasonable stats and it is now time for new starting 5...

I also don't believe PJ is good enough defensively to remain the starter..He's a net negative overall, even if you think he's better than Lamb defensively.

My recommendation for Clifford is to either start Lin or Lamb and to re-move PJ out of the rotation completely just so that Lin and Lamb can get close to 30 minute each....Lamb is shooting 47% from the floor and I truly believe he deserve more than his current minute allocation...

Then you have the fact that you just paid him $7M per..Might as well play him and hope he improves his D...He has a much higher ceiling than PJ, so that shouldn't be up to debate...Overall, even if you think he's not good defensively, he'd STILL be a net positive over PJ because he's so much a better offensive threat.

Clifford should have minutes allocation of Kemba at 32mpg...Lin at about 28 and Lamb at about the same...Lin would get some extra minutes playing PG since Kemba large minutes would have to go down...That should leave enough minutes for Lamb at the 2.

Why not have a 5 game experiment with Kemba, Lin and Lamb as a 3 guard rotations and see what happens...You can scatter Lin's minutes so that he can lead the second units...Let Lin starts the first 6 minutes, then sub him out at about the 6th minute mark of the first quarter to rest...then bring him back to lead the second unit...Sound reasonable to me.

Clifford can not afford to wait and I just hope he end the PJ experiment as soon as possible and get Lamb in there for more minutes..Let Lin and Lamb eat up PJ's 18 minutes..That's 9 precious minutes for Lin and Lamb.

Not there on the defensive end. If there is a guy from the bench that's coming into the starting lineup, it's pointing to Frank. Lin will not start, but his usage will pretty much rise to around the 30 minute mark due to defense and versatility. He also has the potential game-changing quality to not use as a starter. Lamb's defense isn't reliable in the first unit. PJ at least makes the opposing tough player he's guarding work harder and eats up fouls that would otherwise go to a higher-minute guy that needs to be on the floor like Batum or perhaps Lin.

Hopefully Lamb can produce offensively on a more regular basis like he did in the previous game. He made some nice baskets. But he gave back as much as he made on the other end. That's the problem.

[hood30]

Is it time for Clifford to seriously think about ending the PJ Hairston experiment as a starter?

I know PJ has reasonably improved his shooting during the last 5 game, but his FG% is still at 35%...Should we expect him to keep improving so that he can get a reasonable FG% of about 40%?

I strongly believe Clifford needs to shake things up once more because the East is very tight and he HAS to make the playoff this year...You can't have a guy shooting well below 40%FG in your starting 5 for so long.....PJ sound like a decent dude, but I believe he got his chance to put up reasonable stats and it is now time for new starting 5...

I also don't believe PJ is good enough defensively to remain the starter..He's a net negative overall, even if you think he's better than Lamb defensively.

My recommendation for Clifford is to either start Lin or Lamb and to re-move PJ out of the rotation completely just so that Lin and Lamb can get close to 30 minute each....Lamb is shooting 47% from the floor and I truly believe he deserve more than his current minute allocation...

Then you have the fact that you just paid him $7M per..Might as well play him and hope he improves his D...He has a much higher ceiling than PJ, so that shouldn't be up to debate...Overall, even if you think he's not good defensively, he'd STILL be a net positive over PJ because he's so much a better offensive threat.

Clifford should have minutes allocation of Kemba at 32mpg...Lin at about 28 and Lamb at about the same...Lin would get some extra minutes playing PG since Kemba large minutes would have to go down...That should leave enough minutes for Lamb at the 2.

Why not have a 5 game experiment with Kemba, Lin and Lamb as a 3 guard rotations and see what happens...You can scatter Lin's minutes so that he can lead the second units...Let Lin starts the first 6 minutes, then sub him out at about the 6th minute mark of the first quarter to rest...then bring him back to lead the second unit...Sound reasonable to me.

Clifford can not afford to wait and I just hope he end the PJ experiment as soon as possible and get Lamb in there for more minutes..Let Lin and Lamb eat up PJ's 18 minutes..That's 9 precious minutes for Lin and Lamb.

Lamb kills us while he's out there man, literally he gets dominated by other semi-legit NBA players and he can't even shoot 3's at a high enough clip to stretch the floor. Never mind that he can't create his own shot and can't pass to save his life. Also strength and quickness are physical tools like length and he definitely doesn't have those on defense so yes he is hindered physically, not just mentally. Sorry if I'm ranting he just checks all my pet peeves in a player.

So you don't believe he'd be a net positive overall in compare to PJ?...even if it's not by a large margin?

While I agree that Lamb needs to improve defensively, but is he really so much worst than PJ?...This is where I disagree...Lamb potential alone is enough to play him over PJ..

Last night, the Clippers were simply on fire and Rivers/Riddick was scoring on PJ too..It's not like PJ was locking them up while Lamb was stinking it up.

[Kswiss]

Is it time for Clifford to seriously think about ending the PJ Hairston experiment as a starter?

I know PJ has reasonably improved his shooting during the last 5 game, but his FG% is still at 35%...Should we expect him to keep improving so that he can get a reasonable FG% of about 40%?

I strongly believe Clifford needs to shake things up once more because the East is very tight and he HAS to make the playoff this year...You can't have a guy shooting well below 40%FG in your starting 5 for so long.....PJ sound like a decent dude, but I believe he got his chance to put up reasonable stats and it is now time for new starting 5...

I also don't believe PJ is good enough defensively to remain the starter..He's a net negative overall, even if you think he's better than Lamb defensively.

My recommendation for Clifford is to either start Lin or Lamb and to re-move PJ out of the rotation completely just so that Lin and Lamb can get close to 30 minute each....Lamb is shooting 47% from the floor and I truly believe he deserve more than his current minute allocation...

Then you have the fact that you just paid him $7M per..Might as well play him and hope he improves his D...He has a much higher ceiling than PJ, so that shouldn't be up to debate...Overall, even if you think he's not good defensively, he'd STILL be a net positive over PJ because he's so much a better offensive threat.

Clifford should have minutes allocation of Kemba at 32mpg...Lin at about 28 and Lamb at about the same...Lin would get some extra minutes playing PG since Kemba large minutes would have to go down...That should leave enough minutes for Lamb at the 2.

Why not have a 5 game experiment with Kemba, Lin and Lamb as a 3 guard rotations and see what happens...You can scatter Lin's minutes so that he can lead the second units...Let Lin starts the first 6 minutes, then sub him out at about the 6th minute mark of the first quarter to rest...then bring him back to lead the second unit...Sound reasonable to me.

Clifford can not afford to wait and I just hope he end the PJ experiment as soon as possible and get Lamb in there for more minutes..Let Lin and Lamb eat up PJ's 18 minutes..That's 9 precious minutes for Lin and Lamb.

Lamb kills us while he's out there man, literally he gets dominated by other semi-legit NBA players and he can't even shoot 3's at a high enough clip to stretch the floor. Never mind that he can't create his own shot and can't pass to save his life. Also strength and quickness are physical tools like length and he definitely doesn't have those on defense so yes he is hindered physically, not just mentally. Sorry if I'm ranting he just checks all my pet peeves in a player.

So you don't believe he'd be a net positive overall in compare to PJ?...even if it's not by a large margin?

While I agree that Lamb needs to improve defensively, but is he really so much worst than PJ?...This is where I disagree...Lamb potential alone is enough to play him over PJ..

Last night, the Clippers were simply on fire and Rivers/Riddick was scoring on PJ too..It's not like PJ was locking them up while Lamb was stinking it up.

I don't think Lamb is close to PJ as a player defensively or offensively. I'm not even a big PJ supporter but he helps set the tone defensively with the starting unit. Also there's no such thing as "guys on fire" you can block shots or prevent shots from going up quite easily if you are a good defender. Watch Kawhi Leonard guard Steph Curry, he can barely get a shot up. "Guys on fire" is an excuse for awful defense

[mrknowitall215]

While I agree that Lamb needs to improve defensively, but is he really so much worst than PJ?...

No. All stats from advanced individual stats to team stats including defensive ratings and net ratings among others all point towards the team playing better with Lamb on the floor instead of Hairston, and that's with Lamb logging more minutes than Hairston on the season

[PG13]

Lamb doesnt deserve 30 minutes the way he has been playing.

Agreed. And to start him in place of PJ would send him the wrong signal that defense doesn't matter.

[PG13]

While I agree that Lamb needs to improve defensively, but is he really so much worst than PJ?...

No. All stats from advanced individual stats to team stats including defensive ratings and net ratings among others all point towards the team playing better with Lamb on the floor instead of Hairston, and that's with Lamb logging more minutes than Hairston on the season

Would it be the Bench Force One effect and has little to do with Lamb?

I think at this stage from the coach's standpoint it is more important to look at effort than numbers. Need to set the tone for the team for the long-term success.

[hood30]

Lamb doesnt deserve 30 minutes the way he has been playing.

Agreed. And to start him in place of PJ would send him the wrong signal that defense doesn't matter.

But it's not like the team is doing well now with PJ starting and shooting well below 40%...In my opinion, he's a clear weak link..If Charlotte continues to lose, he's the first guy Clifford has to look..close behind should be Marvin William..Maybe Frank is ready to take Marvin's spot.

The first unit has shown a tendency of playing poorly at the start of the first quarter and constantly getting outscored, only to be saved by the bench unit...So with that being said, can Clifford really afford to ignore this fact and keep the starting 5 as it is with PJ in there?..I think pressure will build on Clifford to do something very soon.

Now, I'm not advocating starting Lamb..I'm pretty sure that once the PJ experiment is over, Lin will probably be next in line to start...But Lamb has got to get at the very least 20-25 minutes..He's a young player and the only way he's going to improve is to give him decent minutes.

Again, watching the game last night, defensively, he was no worst than PJ Hairston...On the other hand, offensively, he's much better than PJ and this is what makes Lamb a net positive over PJ regardless of your opinion of him defensively...

The gap, defensively between PJ and Lamb is not large enough to favor PJ over Lamb so strongly.

Offensively, the gap between Lamb and PJ is large enough to strongly favor Lamb over PJ.

[yosemiteben]

PJ typically only gets to play against starting units at the beginning of halves, so he regularly has to defend a team's best shooter while that shooter has fresh legs and before the defense is really settled in to the flow of the game. Lamb typically only plays against second units, and even then usually takes the weaker offensive opponent with one of Lin or Marv / Batum taking the more challenging defensive assignment.

The dramatically different contexts in which they are used has to be considered when assessing their defensive effectiveness.