Don't Be Hurtin' Lin - The Jeremy Lin Thread 2

[Mystical Apples]

I mean coach, seriously, the heavy artillery is just sitting over there waiting to demolish stuff. Do you hate winning?

[bws94]

I have a different question for the regulars. Are some of you disappointed up to now in Lin's play? Because, I'm thinking if I followed Charlotte, Lin sure played a lot of strong games against you. In some, he was the best player. Whether starting or off the bench, he was a factor in most. It seems like Lin should be a dangerous weapon however he's used. But, for some reason, he either trips over himself sometimes or disappears. I think he's excelling, for the most part, on the defensive end. But offensively, what do you guys think? Is he underperforming based on what you've seen him do against your team?

[Braggins]

I have a different question for the regulars. Are some of you disappointing up to now in Lin's play? Because, I'm thinking if I followed Charlotte, Lin sure played a lot of strong games against you. In some, he was the best player. Whether starting or off the bench, he was a factor in most. It seems like Lin should be a dangerous weapon however he's used. But, for some reason, he either trips over himself sometimes or disappears. I think he's excelling, for the most part, on the defensive end. But offensively, what do you guys think? Is he underperforming based on what you've seen him do against your team?

Eh, he hasn't played great but I wouldn't say I'm disappointed. I think he is just adjusting to a new team/system and being used differently than he has been in the past. He seems a bit unsure of what he should be doing at times and it seems like it affects his confidence a little. I expect his play to improve as he continues to get more comfortable with the team and his role.

[yosemiteben]

One thing for Lin fans to note - Hornets fans are unaccustomed to this level of play from Kemba, so there is an element of sheer excitement that we are finally seeing Kemba turn into the type of player that we've begged him to be for the last two seasons.

If Walker regresses to the mean a bit and drops off his production, then you'll probably have a much more sympathetic audience if Kemba's minutes stay high and Lin's do not increase. Right now though, we are playing at a high level than we ever have, and Lin has been relatively underwhelming, so non-Lin fans are pretty happy with the status quo.

[hood30]

A few points I'd add to this lively debate:

1. Sacrificing wins for more minutes for Lin is a strawman argument. More time for Lin and the Hornets winning are NOT mutually exclusive. In fact, I think most Lin fans would argue that more minutes for Lin would result in better overall team play.

2. I'm not sure why some people think that Lin needs to be coddled with gloves, finding him the most ideal situation, or otherwise he'll turn into a turnover machine. Lin was the starting PG for the playoff Knicks in 2012, the starting PG for the playoff Rockets in 2013, and the primary 6th man for the playoff Rockets in 2014. He has more playoff experience as a starter than most players on the Hornets, except for Batum, and maybe Williams and Jefferson.

3. The argument that Lin will get more minutes if he plays better is not supported by the evidence. Can we put this simplistic myth to bed?

- Lin scored 15 pts, with 5 rebs and 4 asts against the Bulls shooting 50% FG and 100% 3PT in 19 minutes against the Bulls on Nov. 3 and then on Nov. 5 against the Mavs, he got 17 minutes.

- On Nov. 10 and 11 against MIN and NYK, Lin played 26 and 21 minutes respectively, scoring 19 and 17 points on good percentages, respectively. Then on Nov. 13 against the Bulls, he got 17 minutes.

If you go through his game log, there's pretty much no rhyme or reason to his minutes allocation. Conversely, you can look at Kemba's game log and you'll see him get lots of minutes after bad games (e.g., shooting 2-11 on Nov. 11 against the Knicks and then he got 37 minutes against the Bulls two days later, and shot 5-18). It seems like Clifford prefers to allot minutes based on matchups but I don't understand what the calculus is. Cliff's always writing notes on this card but who knows what he's doodling.

If these Lin discussions seem exhausting, maybe it's because certain arguments aren't compelling enough to put the issue to rest.

I agree with every line you wrote on this post, including the fact that Lin started the season reasonable well and had a great pre-season to back up any claim to additional minutes, but Clifford, for some strange reason, simply ignored all of that because his mind was set in stone on how many minute Lin was going to play..

After 2 weeks, Lin had a 21 PER and was averaging about 13 ppg coming off the bench..If that type of play doesn't warrant additional minute, than everything is lost for Lin.

Are we supposed to believe Clifford made all of that clear to Lin that his minutes was set in this way?..If the answer is yes, than there's absolutely nothing that makes Charlotte a more desirable destination for Lin as oppose to Chicago or Memphis..Might as well go play for the better team if you're not going to get more minutes playing for an inferior team..It's not like Charlotte was offering a bit more money...That is really what get many Lin's fan scratching their heads.

The only thing that's going to change Lin's minutes are injuries or the few nights when he's on Linsanity mode..He's the last sub to get into the game and is also under heavy pressure to do Linsanity or else...No one should be surprised that his play is declining...

In fact, I give Lin credit for still averaging 10ppg with 15 PER under his current minute...back-up Guys like Corey Joseph and Darren Collison are less efficient under more minutes...


I seriously feel sorry for Lin...He can't catch a break...I wish him the best and hopefully, God will help deal with it since he's a devout Christian...I had bought NBA league pass to simply watch him, but now, I think I'm going to cancel my subscription since Lin is not even playing that much anyway..

[yosemiteben]

I have a different question for the regulars. Are some of you disappointing up to now in Lin's play? Because, I'm thinking if I followed Charlotte, Lin sure played a lot of strong games against you. In some, he was the best player. Whether starting or off the bench, he was a factor in most. It seems like Lin should be a dangerous weapon however he's used. But, for some reason, he either trips over himself sometimes or disappears. I think he's excelling, for the most part, on the defensive end. But offensively, what do you guys think? Is he underperforming based on what you've seen him do against your team?

Eh, he hasn't played great but I wouldn't say I'm disappointed. I think he is just adjusting to a new team/system and being used differently than he has been in the past. He seems a bit unsure of what he should be doing at times and it seems like it affects his confidence a little. I expect his play to improve as he continues to get more comfortable with the team and his role.

Ditto.

I actually think it's fair to say that I've been mildly disappointed, but I think he's played reasonably well and it's normal to take some time to adjust to a new role and system, and especially to figuring out our defense. He's impressed me defensively, it's his offense that is taking time. It's not an effort issue so I'm not worried.

I fully expect his play to improve as the season progresses and for his responsibility to also increase.

[Braggins]

Theres never an uneventful day in the Jeremy Lin thread lol...

[fatlever]

3. The argument that Lin will get more minutes if he plays better is not supported by the evidence. Can we put this simplistic myth to bed?

- Lin scored 15 pts, with 5 rebs and 4 asts against the Bulls shooting 50% FG and 100% 3PT in 19 minutes against the Bulls on Nov. 3 and then on Nov. 5 against the Mavs, he got 17 minutes.

Both of those games were blowouts and his minutes were low because the end of bench guys played at the end of the 4th quarter.

- On Nov. 10 and 11 against MIN and NYK, Lin played 26 and 21 minutes respectively, scoring 19 and 17 points on good percentages, respectively. Then on Nov. 13 against the Bulls, he got 17 minutes.

Him scoring 4 points (2-7 shooting) and having 1 assist in those 17 minutes may have something to do with him not getting more burn.

I thought we had covered those blowouts previously, although there were still many Lin fans who were mad that Lin didn't play in garbage time citing the need for him to pad his stats to get a better contract next year.

[fatlever]

You guys must think that Lin is absolutely miserable in Charlotte and regretting every minute of every day that he is wearing a Hornets uniform playing for the monster that is Steve Clifford. He must be begging his agent to get him traded or circling the date he can sign elsewhere as a free agent.

Yet, every time I see him on the court on on the bench, he looks genuinely happy and every interview he has given so far he seems thrilled to be here.

Does he just have the greatest poker face in the league? Is he a liar? Or perhaps what makes Lin happy is not the same thing as what makes his fans happy?

Which is it?

[Braggins]

You guys must think that Lin is absolutely miserable in Charlotte and regretting every minute of every day that he is wearing a Hornets uniform playing for the monster that is Steve Clifford. He must be begging his agent to get him traded or circling the date he can sign elsewhere as a free agent.

Yet, every time I see him on the court on on the bench, he looks genuinely happy and every interview he has given so far he seems thrilled to be here.

They are projecting their own feelings about the situation onto him. I don't get it. He seems happy and his team is winning.

[SeanBobcats]

I'm not a huge poster on this site, but I tend to read these threads often. I always find myself staying away from this one specifically though lol

[Braggins]

I usually stay away but its been a very, very boring day for me lol.

[Flip Murray]

I seriously feel sorry for Lin...He can't catch a break...I wish him the best and hopefully, God will help deal with it since he's a devout Christian...I had bought NBA league pass to simply watch him, but now, I think I'm going to cancel my subscription since Lin is not even playing that much anyway..

So just to be clear are you saying you want NBA League Pass to "weed you out"?

[fatlever]

I have a different question for the regulars. Are some of you disappointed up to now in Lin's play? Because, I'm thinking if I followed Charlotte, Lin sure played a lot of strong games against you. In some, he was the best player. Whether starting or off the bench, he was a factor in most. It seems like Lin should be a dangerous weapon however he's used. But, for some reason, he either trips over himself sometimes or disappears. I think he's excelling, for the most part, on the defensive end. But offensively, what do you guys think? Is he underperforming based on what you've seen him do against your team?

I've been very happy with Lin, even when he hasn't put up big numbers. Then again, I am not solely looking at him to put up big stats because that is not his role here. I love his defense. He is a better rebounder than I expected. He does a great job of drawing fouls. I also love the fact that he is a fantastic person in the lockerroom (despite how miserable he is here in Charlotte and despite the fact that he was blatantly lied to by his coach) and off the court.

The two things that bother me are his turnovers and 3pt shooting. I expect the latter to improve back to his career numbers. He is not as quick as I thought and he has worse handles than I expected which leads to some problems when he cant get past his man or drives into traffic. I think he lack of quickness and suspect handles and high turnover rate will probably prevent him from being a full time starting PG ever again in this league. As he gets older, wiser and stronger, but loses some more quickness and athleticiscm I see him transitioning more towards the type of player he has shown in Charlotte, a solid combo guard that can defend both guard positions and work on and off the ball, score in bunches, get to the line and shoot (and hopefully make a high %).

I think anyone expecting a return of "Linsanity" for an extended period will be sorely disappointed. In order for Linsanity to happen you basically have to design your roster and offense around Lin to maximize his strengths, hide his weaknesses, give him the ball and let him go, while living with any carnage along the way. I don't see any teams that would be willing to redesign their roster and offense to build around him at this point.

And as I have mentioned plenty of times before, I would prefer to close games with Lin over Lamb on most nights due to his defense, FT rate and experience, but I won't lose sleep over it being Lamb either, especially when Lamb is playing so well.

I'd also give Lin a few more minutes running the PG spot each night to preserve Kemba. Kemba needs to have max energy when he is on the floor and we need him healthy for the long haul.

[bws94]

You guys must think that Lin is absolutely miserable in Charlotte and regretting every minute of every day that he is wearing a Hornets uniform playing for the monster that is Steve Clifford. He must be begging his agent to get him traded or circling the date he can sign elsewhere as a free agent.

Yet, every time I see him on the court on on the bench, he looks genuinely happy and every interview he has given so far he seems thrilled to be here.

Does he just have the greatest poker face in the league? Is he a liar? Or perhaps what makes Lin happy is not the same thing as what makes his fans happy?

Which is it?

Lol,he has a terrible poker face. Lin is probably fine. Maybe just not happy with his offensive production, mostly shooting, and wants to step that up to help his team.

[Flip Murray]

i just looked at jeremy lin portal for the first time. My god

[Liver_Pooty]

i just looked at jeremy lin portal for the first time. My god

That stuff is just absolutely disturbing.

[fatlever]

You guys must think that Lin is absolutely miserable in Charlotte and regretting every minute of every day that he is wearing a Hornets uniform playing for the monster that is Steve Clifford. He must be begging his agent to get him traded or circling the date he can sign elsewhere as a free agent.

Yet, every time I see him on the court on on the bench, he looks genuinely happy and every interview he has given so far he seems thrilled to be here.

Does he just have the greatest poker face in the league? Is he a liar? Or perhaps what makes Lin happy is not the same thing as what makes his fans happy?

Which is it?

Lol,he has a terrible poker face. Lin is probably fine. Maybe just not happy with his offensive production, mostly shooting, and wants to step that up to help his team.

Yeah, my feeling is that when he goes to sleep at night and ponders the previous game he is thinking "Darn, I should have made that shot, Darn, I shouldn't have turned it over, Gee, I am so happy we won that game, gosh my legs are sore", instead of "Darn, why did I sign here?, Golly, these low minutes are killing my chances of signing a huge deal this summer and ultimately proving to all the haters on the Internet that Linsanity was no fluke, agent get my out of here, Steve is a liar"

[bws94]

Ha ha, Lin is saying my legs are sore, my back is sore, my hair is sore from standing up so much.

[lin is ok]

You guys must think that Lin is absolutely miserable in Charlotte and regretting every minute of every day that he is wearing a Hornets uniform playing for the monster that is Steve Clifford. He must be begging his agent to get him traded or circling the date he can sign elsewhere as a free agent.

Yet, every time I see him on the court on on the bench, he looks genuinely happy and every interview he has given so far he seems thrilled to be here.

Does he just have the greatest poker face in the league? Is he a liar? Or perhaps what makes Lin happy is not the same thing as what makes his fans happy?

Which is it?

Easy , once he starts quote bible verses in his twitter, it means that he is going through turmoil.