30 Point Threshold - Noah Vonleh Thread

[yosemiteben]

I wonder how much our lack of practice time factors in to Clifford's hesitancy to plug in Vonleh. The guy misses training camp and then our schedule is so full that we really don't have time to work to integrate him into our insane schedule.

Maybe once we have some breaks and our schedule eases up we'll see him a bit more (i.e., any in non-blowout situations)?

[BeesWax]

I will reiterate that the only real difference in the two is passing and Webber developed that more and more over the years and your highlights are both Freshman and Sophomore years.

What difference does that make? That puts him at the same age as Vonleh now and last year.

Meaning what you are looking it could just as easily be done as a sophomore as it was as a freshman. We don't know and all we can compare right now is freshman to freshman since Noah isn't getting on the court and is already in the NBA.

[LamarMatic7]

You are way overestimating Webber's ball handling and underestimating Noah's. I saw Noah do things at Indiana that Webber never did in college one on one. For all the show boating the Fab Five loved to do there is no way Webber would have passed on breaking down a player off the dribble had he been capable. Once he was in the pros a couple years he did it.

Try "his first year" instead of "once he was there for a couple years".

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjJTcR2AiZw[/youtube]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoMrnXP_bPI[/youtube]

[yosemiteben]

Rewatching that scouting video...is anyone surprised that a guy with the following weaknesses is not getting significant PT:

"Still fairly raw and unpolished on the offensive end. Footwork a work in progress. Lacks advanced moves. Good touch but struggles creating quality shots. Not ready to catch. Can improve his feel for the game."

"Has a long way to go in terms of feel & basketball IQ. 2nd worst among DX 100 in AST per 40, 10th worst in TOs. Low IQ on D. Out of position off the ball too often. Fundamentals on D a work in progress."

"Low IQ as a P/R defender. Not a great rim protector. Out of position too often off the ball. Must improve team defense."

He was already very raw offensively with poor defensive fundamentals, then he missed training camp, has very little practice time, and we started the season with a stretch that has been one of the most difficult in the league. Not at all surprised that he isn't cracking the rotation at this point.

[BeesWax]

You are way overestimating Webber's ball handling and underestimating Noah's. I saw Noah do things at Indiana that Webber never did in college one on one. For all the show boating the Fab Five loved to do there is no way Webber would have passed on breaking down a player off the dribble had he been capable. Once he was in the pros a couple years he did it.

Try "his first year" instead of "once he was there for a couple years".

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjJTcR2AiZw[/youtube]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoMrnXP_bPI[/youtube]

Watched them both as still saw very little one on one ball handling from Webber. His passing is sweet and I have said the whole time that separates him from Noah but his handling isn't tight in those either. He has one drop step spin move and one exaggerated crossover both in the first video. Neither look tight and controlled as Noah did in his highlights. I still say it took him a couple years to fully reign in his handles to be the point forward everyone remembers. His passing was there early in the pros but his dribbling was a work in progress.

[BeesWax]

Rewatching that scouting video...is anyone surprised that a guy with the following weaknesses is not getting significant PT:

"Still fairly raw and unpolished on the offensive end. Footwork a work in progress. Lacks advanced moves. Good touch but struggles creating quality shots. Not ready to catch. Can improve his feel for the game."

"Has a long way to go in terms of feel & basketball IQ. 2nd worst among DX 100 in AST per 40, 10th worst in TOs. Low IQ on D. Out of position off the ball too often. Fundamentals on D a work in progress."

"Low IQ as a P/R defender. Not a great rim protector. Out of position too often off the ball. Must improve team defense."

He was already very raw offensively with poor defensive fundamentals, then he missed training camp, has very little practice time, and we started the season with a stretch that has been one of the most difficult in the league. Not at all surprised that he isn't cracking the rotation at this point.

I think he needed another year of college. So many big men come in now not ready for heavy minutes that it takes some time to learn. Ideally he will learn a lot this year and be ready to contribute next season. The only time I am mad he doesn't play would be in blow outs or when Maxiell gets in the game. That is only because even if you have zero clue what you are doing you have a chance to effect the game more than Max.

[LamarMatic7]

You are way overestimating Webber's ball handling and underestimating Noah's. I saw Noah do things at Indiana that Webber never did in college one on one. For all the show boating the Fab Five loved to do there is no way Webber would have passed on breaking down a player off the dribble had he been capable. Once he was in the pros a couple years he did it.

Try "his first year" instead of "once he was there for a couple years".

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjJTcR2AiZw[/youtube]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoMrnXP_bPI[/youtube]

Watched them both as still saw very little one on one ball handling from Webber. His passing is sweet and I have said the whole time that separates him from Noah but his handling isn't tight in those either. He has one drop step spin move and one exaggerated crossover both in the first video. Neither look tight and controlled as Noah did in his highlights. I still say it took him a couple years to fully reign in his handles to be the point forward everyone remembers. His passing was there early in the pros but his dribbling was a work in progress.

I'd love to see Vonleh handle the ball in fast breaks then.

[BeesWax]

Try "his first year" instead of "once he was there for a couple years".

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjJTcR2AiZw[/youtube]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoMrnXP_bPI[/youtube]

Watched them both as still saw very little one on one ball handling from Webber. His passing is sweet and I have said the whole time that separates him from Noah but his handling isn't tight in those either. He has one drop step spin move and one exaggerated crossover both in the first video. Neither look tight and controlled as Noah did in his highlights. I still say it took him a couple years to fully reign in his handles to be the point forward everyone remembers. His passing was there early in the pros but his dribbling was a work in progress.

I'd love to see Vonleh handle the ball in fast breaks then.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBQ-Wn_R9S4[/youtube]
Watch the 1:30 mark.

[LamarMatic7]

Watched them both as still saw very little one on one ball handling from Webber. His passing is sweet and I have said the whole time that separates him from Noah but his handling isn't tight in those either. He has one drop step spin move and one exaggerated crossover both in the first video. Neither look tight and controlled as Noah did in his highlights. I still say it took him a couple years to fully reign in his handles to be the point forward everyone remembers. His passing was there early in the pros but his dribbling was a work in progress.

I'd love to see Vonleh handle the ball in fast breaks then.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBQ-Wn_R9S4[/youtube]
Watch the 1:30 mark.

okay. that is one example of it.

[BeesWax]

I'd love to see Vonleh handle the ball in fast breaks then.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBQ-Wn_R9S4[/youtube]
Watch the 1:30 mark.

okay. that is one example of it.

True but I have a very small amount of games and times to pull from. There are a number of other ball handling shows in that film. You are pulling from three years in which Webber played significant minutes I have just one because of Noah's situation. I was just showing that he has shown signs of what Webber did minus the passing aspect.

[LamarMatic7]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBQ-Wn_R9S4[/youtube]
Watch the 1:30 mark.

okay. that is one example of it.

True but I have a very small amount of games and times to pull from. There are a number of other ball handling shows in that film. You are pulling from three years in which Webber played significant minutes I have just one because of Noah's situation. I was just showing that he has shown signs of what Webber did minus the passing aspect.

don't put this on lack of footage. each of those draft video guys have all of the games available at their hands thanks to today's internet abilities. while in the case of Webber, you have only certain Fab Five games and footage that has survived the test of time and somehow landed in the lap of that particular mixmaker, Swove.

as for the Warriors games those are my own videos. the Hawks regular season game is as random as it gets. I got the access to a few Warriors games of that season and thus saw the chance to create something with Webber in a Warriors uniform. it's not like I had the whole year of games at my hands and I hand-picked his best passing moments.

[fatlever]

Something about him reminds me of Jermaine O'Neal. Like O'Neal with Rick Mahorn's ass. I see the C-Webb comparisons a little bit. He has the handles but not the floor vision/passing and not as explosive an athlete.

webber also had magical touch around the rim with both hands. based on what i saw in summer league, vonleh's finishing leaves lot to be desired.

[BeesWax]

okay. that is one example of it.

True but I have a very small amount of games and times to pull from. There are a number of other ball handling shows in that film. You are pulling from three years in which Webber played significant minutes I have just one because of Noah's situation. I was just showing that he has shown signs of what Webber did minus the passing aspect.

don't put this on lack of footage. each of those draft video guys have all of the games available at their hands thanks to today's internet abilities. while in the case of Webber, you have only certain Fab Five games and footage that has survived the test of time and somehow landed in the lap of that particular mixmaker, Swove.

as for the Warriors games those are my own videos. the Hawks regular season game is as random as it gets. I got the access to a few Warriors games of that season and thus saw the chance to create something with Webber in a Warriors uniform. it's not like I had the whole year of games at my hands and I hand-picked his best passing moments.

You had 2200 minutes of one of the most polarizing teams of all time to pull video from and I had almost 800 minutes of a run of the mill squad. His number of chances to run a break are limited compared to Webber due to lack of court time. All I am saying is I showed you him doing what you showed Webber doing. I have not said he is Webber yet just that he show similar skills everywhere but passing and with better shooting from range. I do not know that he has the work ethic to get to his peak but the base skill set is there and if he does work he could be amazing to watch.

[BeesWax]

Something about him reminds me of Jermaine O'Neal. Like O'Neal with Rick Mahorn's ass. I see the C-Webb comparisons a little bit. He has the handles but not the floor vision/passing and not as explosive an athlete.

webber also had magical touch around the rim with both hands. based on what i saw in summer league, vonleh's finishing leaves lot to be desired.

That is true. Despite his ability to create space and get shots his finishing inside is not on Webber's level right now. Although in college it was not hard for Webber to finish as it was difficult to miss the dunk and he was pushing the opposing player through the hoop with the ball.

[LamarMatic7]

You had 2200 minutes of one of the most polarizing teams of all time to pull video from and I had almost 800 minutes of a run of the mill squad.

It doesn't work like that. Trust me, I have some experience in this racket.

[BeesWax]

You had 2200 minutes of one of the most polarizing teams of all time to pull video from and I had almost 800 minutes of a run of the mill squad.

It doesn't work like that. Trust me, I have some experience in this racket.

There is quite a bit of video floating around of that team due to there flash. If it was just a normal squad like the UNC or Duke guys from back then I would not argue but these guys were always the center of everything NCAA at that time. I remember friends of mine grabbing up Michigan gear back in the day to wear to school because of these guys. Now I know the full 2200 hours is not out there but I am sure there are enough games with him playing to get at least double what I have to pull from with Noah.

Either way my point was he shows signs of similar things. Not as polished a player by any means but he has a great skill set for us to try to develop.

[yosemiteben]

As an expert in tedious internet arguments...this is definitely a tedious internet argument.

[fatlever]

jdm never stops.

[Liver_Pooty]

jdm never stops.

Lol he sure doesn't

[BigSlam]

jdm never stops.

Might start calling him the Fonz.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkqgDoo_eZE[/youtube]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvdY3HfepOo[/youtube]