The Gordon Hayward Thread

[olive_triangurl]

Last year the Bobcats played the Jazz twice. In those 2 games, Hayward had...

12 points on 3-for-11 shooting

...and...

9 points on 3-for-10 shooting un-respectively...

...MAX-CONTRACT PLAYER EVERYBODY

FYI, Henderson matched or outscored him in both games

that's because we have one of the best defenses ever, and that's going to help Hayward because he can be hidden better on defense (or improve his defense a bit) with us plus at least he can steal the ball (1.4spg)

[yosemiteben]

Last year the Bobcats played the Jazz twice. In those 2 games, Hayward had...

12 points on 3-for-11 shooting

...and...

9 points on 3-for-10 shooting un-respectively...

...MAX-CONTRACT PLAYER EVERYBODY

FYI, Henderson matched or outscored him in both games

Utah had literally the worst defense in the league last year.

[MasterIchiro]

There is no way Charlotte has banked on the Jazz not matching. Cho should theoretically see what the Jazz see which is a rising cap and the necessity for the Jazz to avoid fan blowback. It is not a reasonable expectation to poach a franchise guy without a fight. I think it would be quite naive of our front office to engage in this kind of thinking.

Again, the purpose of the distasteful contract offer was to compel the Jazz to consider being more open to sign + trade possibilities. Charlotte doesn't want Utah to match but Charlotte also doesn't expect to get him for nothing.

I'm going to just keep repeating this until it sinks in.

Losing your franchise player for nothing is not an option for the Jazz.

And of course Cho recognizes this.

It is the worst case scenario for Utah.

[ARHornet]

Nothing like taking raw stats from 2 games and making key conclusions from that alone.

[Lwcasu]

Last year the Bobcats played the Jazz twice. In those 2 games, Hayward had...

12 points on 3-for-11 shooting

...and...

9 points on 3-for-10 shooting un-respectively...

...MAX-CONTRACT PLAYER EVERYBODY

FYI, Henderson matched or outscored him in both games

that's because we have one of the best defenses ever, and that's going to help Hayward because he can be hidden better on defense (or improve his defense a bit) with us plus at least he can steal the ball (1.4spg)

Except by putting Hayward in we will lose MKG or Henderson and our defense will detoriate.

[MasterIchiro]

I would never choose Mr Know It All if I was the captain selecting players for a pickup game. He's the pesky cherry picker who lags towards center court on defense, looking for easy fast break points while the rest of my team fights 4 on 5 to defend our goal.

[mrknowitall215]

Last year the Bobcats played the Jazz twice. In those 2 games, Hayward had...

12 points on 3-for-11 shooting

...and...

9 points on 3-for-10 shooting un-respectively...

...MAX-CONTRACT PLAYER EVERYBODY

FYI, Henderson matched or outscored him in both games

Utah had literally the worst defense in the league last year.

Thanks to Hayward's defensive deficiencies. The only player that really had respectable defense on that Jazz team was Derrick Favors

[MasterIchiro]

I just love that, considering his reputation and with coach Clifford here that the removal of one single player would cause the inevitable collapse of our entire team defense.

It's like Clifford has this great system and great rep yet he's not fully credited here, hes nothing without this one single player.

Just no.

[yosemiteben]

I'm going to just keep repeating this until it sinks in.

You act like it's a difficult concept for us to grasp, but it's not. I just think the FO values MKG more than you, and I don't think the pieces otherwise exist to get Utah interested in a S&T.

You won't have to be saying this for very long since we've only got like 10 more hours until we'll know for sure one way or the other.

[yosemiteben]

Last year the Bobcats played the Jazz twice. In those 2 games, Hayward had...

12 points on 3-for-11 shooting

...and...

9 points on 3-for-10 shooting un-respectively...

...MAX-CONTRACT PLAYER EVERYBODY

FYI, Henderson matched or outscored him in both games

Utah had literally the worst defense in the league last year.

Thanks to Hayward's defensive deficiencies. The only player that really had respectable defense on that Jazz team was Derrick Favors

Hmmm....when have we heard about a Utah Jazz player with alleged gigantic defensive deficiencies coming to Charlotte and then playing a ton of minutes and having a major role in a team with a top tier defense?

Given that you also don't see Henderson as a very good defender, this should be about a wash, right?

[mrknowitall215]

I would never choose Mr Know It All if I was the captain selecting players for a pickup game. He's the pesky cherry picker who lags towards center court on defense, looking for easy fast break points while the rest of my team fights 4 on 5 to defend our goal.

That wouldn't be the reason why you wouldn't select me. You wouldn't want to select me in a pickup game because I'm a ball hog. We would win because nobody would really stop me from scoring, but you'd hardly touch the ball. That's just a pickup game. In a organizational game, I'm a lot more passive around zone defenses and better competition

[MasterIchiro]

I'm going to just keep repeating this until it sinks in.

You act like it's a difficult concept for us to grasp, but it's not. I just think the FO values MKG more than you, and I don't think the pieces otherwise exist to get Utah interested in a S&T.

You won't have to be saying this for very long since we've only got like 10 more hours until we'll know for sure one way or the other.

True. I will be surprised if there is no-sign and trade by the deadline. I will be doubly shocked if the Jazz don't match and lose their franchise player for nothing, amidst a rising cap on the horizon and considering fan blowback. I also would have been shocked if Hayward had passed up his peak value offseason and sign a 1-year guarantee and leave 50+ million on the table while risking getting injured, as you suggested was reasonable for him to pursue in order to control his situation. I told you yesterday it's his agent's job to capitalize on this market. Now it's Utah's job not to lose him for nothing. And it's still Charlotte's job to add range shooting, passing, playmaking, dribbling etc.

[ARHornet]

I'm going to just keep repeating this until it sinks in.

And I will keep repeating this. MKG was never getting traded and the Jazz were never letting Hayward come here, sign and trade or otherwise. This is all much ado about nothing.

[mrknowitall215]

Utah had literally the worst defense in the league last year.

Thanks to Hayward's defensive deficiencies. The only player that really had respectable defense on that Jazz team was Derrick Favors

Hmmm....when have we heard about a Utah Jazz player with alleged gigantic defensive deficiencies coming to Charlotte and then playing a ton of minutes and having a major role in a team with a top tier defense?

Given that you also don't see Henderson as a very good defender, this should be about a wash, right?

Jefferson was every bit of a defensive deficiency that he was rumored to be. It's just that he was so good offensively with a team that was willing to bend their backs defensively to win that it was mildly offset. For all of the scoring Jefferson did offensively, he still was only 3rd on the team in net rating, and that's primarily due to his defense

Add Hayward, and there's only so many porous defenders that can be hidden in a starting 5

[MKGsMotor]

I would never choose Mr Know It All if I was the captain selecting players for a pickup game. He's the pesky cherry picker who lags towards center court on defense, looking for easy fast break points while the rest of my team fights 4 on 5 to defend our goal.

That wouldn't be the reason why you wouldn't select me. You wouldn't want to select me in a pickup game because I'm a ball hog. We would win because nobody would really stop me from scoring, but you'd hardly touch the ball. That's just a pickup game. In a organizational game, I'm a lot more passive around zone defenses and better competition

Fifty bucks that I could stop you from scoring and my pickup team up here would win

[trins]

MKG and Zeller won't get traded. MKG, because he is the defensive anchor of the Hornets. Adding Hayward and trading MKG is basically a wash. Hornets would be choosing offense over defense, I just don't see Clifford going for that philosophy.

Zeller because we traded Mcbob. If Zeller wa going to be traded, Hornets would've paid to keep Mcbob.

[Dancingpanda]

I just love that, considering his reputation and with coach Clifford here that the removal of one single player would cause the inevitable collapse of our entire team defense.

It's like Clifford has this great system and great rep yet he's not fully credited here, hes nothing without this one single player.

Just no.

Clifford's System is great, But it is heavily dependent on good wing defense. That is how we were able to hide Jefferson and McBob's deficiencies. Adding in Hayward, who is a defensive weakness, and removing a great defender makes our defense not work. The scheme only works if we have players that can actually play defense.

[Dancingpanda]

MKG and Zeller won't get traded. MKG, because he is the defensive anchor of the Hornets. Adding Hayward and trading MKG is basically a wash. Hornets would be choosing offense over defense, I just don't see Clifford going for that philosophy.

Zeller because we traded Mcbob. If Zeller wa going to be traded, Hornets would've paid to keep Mcbob.

I think Zeller is safe only if they think he can start.

[yosemiteben]

It's just that he was so good offensively with a team that was willing to bend their backs defensively to win that it was mildly offset.

If by "bend their backs" you mean play solid team defense and have a top tier defense, then yes. It's so odd to me that you continue to try to frame our defense last season as some sort of weakness that is on the verge of collapsing. Maybe I'm not remembering correctly, but were you not among the group that viewed Henderson as at best an average defender?

[mrknowitall215]

I would never choose Mr Know It All if I was the captain selecting players for a pickup game. He's the pesky cherry picker who lags towards center court on defense, looking for easy fast break points while the rest of my team fights 4 on 5 to defend our goal.

That wouldn't be the reason why you wouldn't select me. You wouldn't want to select me in a pickup game because I'm a ball hog. We would win because nobody would really stop me from scoring, but you'd hardly touch the ball. That's just a pickup game. In a organizational game, I'm a lot more passive around zone defenses and better competition

Fifty bucks that I could stop you from scoring and my pickup team up here would win

I would up the ante to $300-500, but I don't take monetary bets from sources that I don't know or have a reliable backing like a gambling agency

It would all be in good fun. I might consider it if I can remember to message you the next time I'm coming out to the Charlotte area. In fact, what city & state do you stay?